Changes to 3d

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by The Game

It's 2017 and i can name about 5 baseball games that had simple but better graphics from 1985-2003. Granted they were not text based games but it would be nice to have more that some chess piece running around and weird plays that bounce from the RF wall back to the SS and the player was out the entire time. Also would be nice to have the sky darken based on weather not a bright sunny day. While i will buiy 18 for the historical improvements i hope to see major improvements to graphics in the next 2-3 versions.

v17 was a great introduction for OOTP and a 3d module. v18 we hopefully go another step forward.

How about the throw from OF to 2B and then no throw to 3b to throw the runner out, they just hold onto the baseball?

I know it's a results issue and the 3d matching up.. but hopefully stuff like that is cleaned up. I have no doubt it will though!

[smiller]

I'd like to see more drama on infield hits. Right now you know in advance it will be a hit because the fielder always holds the ball too long before throwing or else lobs the ball over.

[stangedaze23]

Proper ball flight and ball speed with defensive player tracking is all I really care about. They can be simply models even pawns. Micro league baseball in the 80s had that as have many other games that were sim based. That really is not too much to ask.

Also the lack of information makes me very hesitant to pre-order. I have pre-ordered a couple times and the lack of improvements I thought were logical was a disappointment.

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by stangedaze23

Proper ball flight and ball speed with defensive player tracking is all I really care about. They can be simply models even pawns. Micro league baseball in the 80s had that as have many other games that were sim based. That really is not too much to ask....

Yup, Microleague and Earl Weaver Baseball (1.5) are pretty much the bar for me. MLB2K, The Show... that's just way too much. Sensory overload.

Although I will say the over head press box cam view (NOT the batters eye/behind homeplate cam) in WGT baseball circ. 2013 looks pretty slick and not too over the top. I suppose that would be the "modern interpretation" of Microleague/Earl Weaver, and not a terribly high bar to shoot for.

[T-Bone]

I am not willing to compromise performance for graphics.

[MizzouRah]

I love how non-3d people come into a thread about 3d.. lol

It sells more copies, there is no doubt in my mind about that. Now that we have it, if it ever went away or was never improved, I would never buy another version of OOTP again.

That being said.. it's iteration went way beyond what I was expecting so I have faith it will make another big leap with 18.

[stangedaze23]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

I am not willing to compromise performance for graphics.

Simple proper ball flight is not graphically intensive and wouldn't impact game play.

Edit: even in the 2d mode you could have a black shadow that mimics ball flight. The location of the hit is simply mapping the location of the hit and identifying where it would land on the grid of the field. Most of this information has to be generated based on the game play already it is simply not properly mapped out or rendered graphically. Most baseball sim games have done this quite easily baffled as to why it isn't here. Everything else is stellar

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by stangedaze23

Simple proper ball flight is not graphically intensive and wouldn't impact game play.

Edit: even in the 2d mode you could have a black shadow that mimics ball flight. The location of the hit is simply mapping the location of the hit and identifying where it would land on the grid of the field. Most of this information has to be generated based on the game play already it is simply not properly mapped out or rendered graphically. Most baseball sim games have done this quite easily baffled as to why it isn't here. Everything else is stellar

I hear you, but I don't buy OOTP to see a real life image of Jose Bautista do a bat flip. There are probably other games that do that. I am not willing to slow down the pace of play so I can see stuff like that.

I suppose any type of enhanced 3D would be an option (given OOTP gives us millions of options - THANK YOU) but the thought of this franchise turning into a game fitting the Xbox makes me sick.

[mr-cpu-geek]

Originally Posted by r0nster

has noticed the pattern of the people who haven't been in this game that long tend to be the ones who want eye candy. Its funny how a friend of mine and I were talking about this in a different way. We have noticed that the kids today (in general) tend to have less creativity than say our generation and those prior like our parents and grand parents. Its amazing to actually step back and see how kids today tackle things. a friend of mine and myself were able to play baseball just the 2 of us and we made our own silly rules and even did our own announcing. Today nobody wants to play baseball because too few friends available to play. Another example as far as graphics Star Wars. Much was implied and todays star wars NONE is implied. Getting back to graphics here I think its great and much hard work by the programmers now having to deal with the 2nd generation. Wonders if we go ahead in 20 years for the following generation the graphics be holographics LOL Whoops better watchout I might start a prophetic movement there HEHE

I have played OOTP since OOTP3. I have always played the games out and loved the play by play. But now with 3D in the game I have fallen in love with this game all over.

So no, it's not just the new crowd that "want the eye candy".

With that being said, I don't expect The Show graphics. I think their approach with the pawns is great.

And by the way, is you read Markus's AMA a few weeks ago, I think he made it pretty clear that the 3D aspects of the game is pretty important to him.


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[catcherjul]

I agree that this game doesn't absolutely need a wonderfull 3D to be sucessful, but I certainly won't cry if it becomes more and more good looking. I'm sure that Markus will always put the simulation aspects before the cosmetic anyway so we don't have to worry

Playing Football Manager series too, I can guarantee that having a good 3D part is very immersive

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by mr-cpu-geek

I have played OOTP since OOTP3. I have always played the games out and loved the play by play. But now with 3D in the game I have fallen in love with this game all over.

So no, it's not just the new crowd that "want the eye candy".

With that being said, I don't expect The Show graphics. I think their approach with the pawns is great.

And by the way, is you read Markus's AMA a few weeks ago, I think he made it pretty clear that the 3D aspects of the game is pretty important to him.


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I think Markus and Co will do whatever it takes to generate the most revenue, which essentially means appealing to the broadest base possible to increase sales. And if that means eventually having "MLB The Show" level graphics, that's what they will aim to do.

Look, I think a modernized version of Microleague/Earl Weaver with a simple single cam view that is adjustable to any position in the ballpark is all they need.

(as an aside, take a look at the over head cam in THIS clip of WGT baseball - along with the physics, animation, and graphical detail. That's it, all they need. Nothing more. Period. End of story. But NOT the batter cam.. I HATE batter cam shots. Ugh.)

Anyway, that is essentially what they have now. The ball flight physics right now are great - when they work - and that's 95% of the time which is fine for now, given the resources.

The only thing to nail down at this point is replacing the pawns with animated players. But will that be enough to appeal to a broader base and generate a huge spike sales? Probably not like "Show" style graphics would - not that I would want that. And that is what it's about: more sales, more revenue. As I said earlier, Markus and co will do whatever it takes for that.

[Calvert98]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

I think Markus and Co will do whatever it takes to generate the most revenue, which essentially means appealing to the broadest base possible to increase sales. And if that means eventually having "MLB The Show" level graphics, that's what they will aim to do.

Look, I think a modernized version of Microleague/Earl Weaver with a simple single cam view that is adjustable to any position in the ballpark is all they need.

(as an aside, take a look at the over head cam in THIS clip of WGT baseball - along with the physics, animation, and graphical detail. That's it, all they need. Nothing more. Period. End of story. But NOT the batter cam.. I HATE batter cam shots. Ugh.)

Anyway, that is essentially what they have now. The ball flight physics right now are great - when they work - and that's 95% of the time which is fine for now, given the resources.

On that video, you are talking about that zoomed-out/press box view that is shown of the entire field after the hit correct?

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by Calvert98

On that video, you are talking about that zoomed-out/press box view that is shown of the entire field after the hit correct?

Yup.

[Calvert98]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Yup.

Ok; I agree with you and that's the type of thing what I was thinking about as well. By using that scale of view, you don’t need a lot of that heavy detail and can sort of get away with less bulk on the graphics, and I would think for most OOTP fans, it’s also the type of field view which is most helpful. And on graphics, lighting (sky, field, stands and stadium surfaces), seems to go a long way at that scale.

Actually, what made me think of this is the OOTP 18 banner. Granted, the angle needs to be different, but take a look at that picture and the scale of the fielders and detail.

Anyway, if 18 does go to something like this in 3D (which I think would be good), the only thing I’d ask is that we keep or have the option to keep the player banners/pictures next to the players. Helps for a quick read in-between plays.

[Anyone]

I remember Earl Weaver Baseball, one of the very first computer games I played-- and yeah...just getting it to that level would add a ton to my enjoyment. Anything beyond that (except to also have, based on the variable in the file, the players having different skin tones) would still be appreciated, but there are diminishing returns after that.

EWBB, as I recall, was already able to show great plays as great plays, realistic close plays, etc..

It also had a working park editor. Silvam does a great job making 3D parks for people, including me (though he misread how I wanted the foul territory, and if 18 lacks a good in-game park editor I'll end up asking him to alter mine for small infield foul territory but big outfield rather than the reverse)...but Silvam's work ideally shouldn't be necessary.

It also would be nice if the park's dimensions affected where things happened (it's okay if we have to manually input the park factors, but with my park having a close CF fence and deep fences down the lines relative to most, more HR's should go to CF relative to down the lines compared to an average part: The total number of HR's in the park can still be just based on the park factors we input, but just more of the deep flyouts going down the lines and more of the HR's going to CF than one would expect).

While I expect the outcome derived from the stats and the "dice roll" will always determine the play outcome (a good thing, because I like most OOTP players prize statistical accuracy), it probably also did in Earl Weaver, but as I recall it in EW it didn't look like it. The infielder wouldn't hold the ball longer on an infield hit, nor would the runner run faster. It would simply make the ball move slowly to the fielder or take a high hop, so that the batter would beat it out.

That should be very possible. When the formulae determine there's an infield hit, they takes into account the batter's speed, the fielder's range and arm, and all that. So, showing what happened and essentially why the computer determined the batter could beat the ball out shouldn't be too hard.

This may strike people as a complaint post, but it isn't. 3D has advanced so much each year that we may have what I'm asking this year if it takes as big a step forward as from 16 to 17. I am arguing against those who say graphics don't matter, though. I do want to be able to "watch" the game, and feel like I'm watching a real baseball game. It doesn't take The Show level graphics to do that. EWBB did that well enough, so that should be the target and, in my view, a high priority (fortunately the devs do seem to prioritize it).

[MizzouRah]

FPS Baseball 96 was one of the best baseball games ever made, imho.. I played that game every day with my roommates at the time. It was a sim style game, but being able to play and tell the players what type of pitch/swing then seeing it all unfold in a graphical representation really drew me into it's world. It's a rare feeling I have with very few sports games.

It was so far ahead of any other sports game for its time. That and FPS Football 97 will forever hold a piece of my gaming heart.

OOTP is getting to that level with the addition of 3D and I'm so happy Markus fully understands where we are coming from.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

FPS Baseball 96 was one of the best baseball games ever made, imho.. I played that game every day with my roommates at the time. It was a sim style game, but being able to play and tell the players what type of pitch/swing then seeing it all unfold in a graphical representation really drew me into it's world. It's a rare feeling I have with very few sports games.

It was so far ahead of any other sports game for its time. That and FPS Football 97 will forever hold a piece of my gaming heart.

OOTP is getting to that level with the addition of 3D and I'm so happy Markus fully understands where we are coming from.

I really appreciate the statistical fidelity of the game but why not dream that one day we could have both? Look how much work uniform makers have put into their craft. Now imagine all of that on the screen during play. Maybe I'm the only one who dreams of watching the Astros play in OOTP in their late '70s unis but why not?