Did Cal retire just in time? (Talkin' roids)

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by Papa3

Did I miss something or did Ripken ever acknowledge he was aware of the rampant steroid use on the team? If he didn't, he's gotta be lying. Wouldn't he be among the first to find out? He'd almost certainly know before the owner, the GM, or the manager.

As he stated there was no drug use? Also I'm doubting they would be sticking needles in their butts and swallowing pills in front of everyone in the clubhouse.

[Papa3]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You really are digging hard for smoke that isnt there. Did he not sign an autograph for you or what is the real story here?

EDIT: It's actually funny that you mention not having an autograph signed for me. Now that I think about, the first game I ever took my oldest son to, I caught a ball during batting practice. In the last inning of a blowout loss, we went down next to the O's dugout. When the game ended, only one player stayed and signed autographs. About to head into the clubhouse not seeing us from the other end of the dugout, I yelled out "Larry. It's his first ballgame."

Larry Bigbie walked all the way over to sign one last autograph. I shook his hand and thanked him saying, "Larry, you're a great guy. You're the only one out here signing for these kids." He smiled and thanked me. What a damn shame I shook a guy's hand who was likely only there cause of steroids. An unforgettable memory - the first between my son and baseball - forever tarnished.

So you know what, now that I think about, I guess I am kind of pissed that my childhood heroes have done this. At the time, nothing was suspected and new/old cases all around the league are coming to light every year. Considering his unprecedented longevity, is it truly far-fetched to question if Cal was involved too?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Papa3

EDIT: It's actually funny that you mention not having an autograph signed for me. Now that I think about, the first game I ever took my oldest son to, I caught a ball during batting practice. In the last inning of a blowout loss, we went down next to the O's dugout. When the game ended, only one player stayed and signed autographs. About to head into the clubhouse not seeing us from the other end of the dugout, I yelled out "Larry. It's his first ballgame."

Larry Bigbie walked all the way over to sign one last autograph. I shook his hand and thanked him saying, "Larry, you're a great guy. You're the only one out here signing for these kids." He smiled and thanked me. What a damn shame I shook a guy's hand who was likely only there cause of steroids. An unforgettable memory - the first between my son and baseball - forever tarnished.

So you know what, now that I think about, I guess I am kind of pissed that my childhood heroes have done this. At the time, nothing was suspected and new/old cases all around the league are coming to light every year. Considering his unprecedented longevity, is it truly far-fetched to question if Cal was involved too?

Great story! I think it is fine if you want to wonder. I just dont know what you have to gain by not wanting to think of him as being innocent.

Kirby Puckett was my childhood hero and was never really linked to roids but looking at his spike in home runs after the 1985 season and his body formation made me realize the odds were very good that he used roids. Id still rather not know the truth.

[Papa3]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Maybe some players do feel this way but they are also considered "selfish." A good teammate and leader, like Cal was, does not throw their other teammates under the bus. Since Cal is a managers son I would speculate he feels stronger about this concept than most.

Id prefer to think he was clean and see no reason to go assume the worst.

Maybe went Gehrig comes on again he can add something? He was a former teammate of Cal.

I totally get what you're saying, but I want to throw something at the wall and see if it sticks with you...

I think you're saying he might be considered "selfish" if he told and as a good teammate and leader he wouldn't throw his teammates under the bus. At the same token, shouldn't he feel bad for the teammates of his that aren't taking steroids, aren't getting playing time or as big a paycheck as a result, and aren't being given a fair opportunity to create their own legacy?

Also, I'm sure the guys aren't shooting up or popping pills in front of each other, but they spend months on the road together, in hotels, working out, going out to eat/drink/party, hang with friends and family, etc. etc. Surely somebody said something.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Papa3

If I had a smoking gun, I wouldn't be thinking aloud here. I'd be looking for a lawyer to keep my ass out of jail. I guess I'm mostly surprised that it hasn't been talked about, especially considering some of the thoughts in my other post just now. I'm not trying to start a nasty rumor but it would be nice to know what some other guys like me think about this when we try adding everything up.

Maybe it hasn't been talked about because nobody thinks Cal did them.

Maybe it's because most people are sick and tired of beating a dead horse. I could pick a couple hundred names out MLB players from the steroid era and make all kinds of speculations about "did they" or "didn't they".


For me, it's #2 - sick and tired of the whole who did it and who didn't. It's ST time, a time to get excited about baseball, not a time to open the same old can of worms yet again. It would be nice if a season could start without more rampant rumors about who did and who didn't use steroids.

I'm excited about the coming season. I wonder if the Rangers did enough to finally win a Series. I wonder if the Yankees will be competitive. I wonder if the Tigers can finally get over the hump. I wonder if the Red Sox will repeat. I wonder if the Nats will have a good season and make the playoffs. I wonder if the Cards can win the Central again or if the Bucs can unseat them. I wonder what Puig will do for an encore.

I sure ain't wondering if Cal or anyone else did roids.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Papa3

I think you're saying he might be considered "selfish" if he told and as a good teammate and leader he wouldn't throw his teammates under the bus. At the same token, shouldn't he feel bad for the teammates of his that aren't taking steroids, aren't getting playing time or as big a paycheck as a result, and aren't being given a fair opportunity to create their own legacy?

I would have to get pretty deep in speculation to answer this. He would be acting like the morality police if he took any ownership in this. I would speculate he probably didnt really care what others were taking and maybe didnt understand the consequences of steroids at the time. He was probably also most concerned with seeing the best players around him on the team to help his team win games. After the fact he may have wished he had done things differently but I doubt he knew how big this steroid issue would become.

[Papa3]

Baltimore Sun article from 2005, I never knew this stuff about Cal but we all know Jose Canseco's track record with this crap. Plus, as we now know, A-Rod's not exactly the Dalai Llama. Here's the link to the original article that I copy & pasted here. Canseco takes swing at Ripken - Baltimore Sun

Canseco takes swing at Ripken
Ex-player: Orioles great one of `the total phonies,' got preferential treatment
February 15, 2005|By Jeff Barker | Jeff Barker,SUN STAFF
Jose Canseco's new book focuses largely on steroids, but the retired slugger couldn't resist hurling a few non-steroid-related insults at former Oriole Cal Ripken.

"I can just throw up watching the total phonies go to work, guys like Cal Ripken or Alex Rodriguez; everything out of their mouths sounds like it was tested by some kind of focus group beforehand," Canseco writes of the two shortstops.




The Cuban-born Canseco suggests in the book that he often was singled out for media criticism because he was a minority. Ripken, he says, was "untouchable."

"Throughout his career, Cal Ripken Jr. was completely protected by the media. With his family history in baseball, he was one of those untouchable players, the guy who could do no wrong," Canseco writes in Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big.

"He even got a pass on the way he dealt with the other players. He used to stay at a separate hotel from the rest of the team, and take a separate car from the team bus. The official explanation was that it was for security reasons, but we minority players couldn't help feeling otherwise."

Longtime Ripken agent Ron Shapiro said yesterday: "It's hard to respond to a stream of consciousness absurdity but Cal Ripken's career and life speaks for itself. He is a man who had friends in the game from all walks of life, and all backgrounds."

Shapiro said Ripken was often hounded - even long after the game was over - by memorabilia and collectible professionals and others.

"When he did have separate hotel arrangements, it came in the context of a genuine concern for his security as the [consecutive-games] streak became more and more important," Shapiro said. "There were always some people out there who respected neither his privacy nor his need to be ready for each day's game, and the separate accommodations helped deal with that."

[darkredwing]

I'm not going to sit here and accuse anyone playing now, or during the steroid era of doing roids. Most of the big name players that have done it during that era have already been identified.

If you're going to rip into Cal looking for some evidence that he did do them or should come out and speak against those that did or something along those lines, why not go after Ortiz for failing the drug test in 2003? It just feels like we're looking for more players to crucified. In ten years are we going to be asking the same questions of Trout, Harper, Miguel Cabrera, Felix Hernandez, Verlander, Kershaw or any other very good player in today's game? I won't be shocked if it ever came out that some one in baseball is doing them, but I'm not going to waste my time wondering about it =P.

[Jason Moyer]

Tons of guys were taking steroids who didn't look like Paul Bunyan. I'm not saying Cal was among those guys, but the whole thing with basing suspicion on someone's physique is silly.

[DamPenguin]

Look I will be 40 this May. I love sports with a passion but I can't say anybody who has achieved any success in sports (during my past 30+ years of watching sports) can be without suspicion. To me that's the big crime of the steroid era. Not only the records broken by those who did use PED's but the shadow of doubt cast on to all those who may have not. In the least I'm glad that there is a lot of people who do care about it than those who say let PED's be legalized. Did Cal use PED's? I like to think not. But because of the era when he played there is at least some doubt.

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by Papa3

As an Orioles fan since Cal Ripken's career began, I can't help but think he may have been on the juice. If you look at the circumstances it's certainly possible -- if not probable.

Of course he's got The Streak, but years earlier all we heard around here was that he needed a rest because his game was floundering. Then all of a sudden he had an MVP year followed by some of his better hitting seasons in his mid and late 30's.

Add that to the huge steroid scandal in Baltimore which included Rafael Palmeiro (whose steroid-fueled seasons were played alongside Cal) and two of his replacements at shortstop, Manny Alexander and Miguel Tejada. Heck 19 of the 89 players in the 2007 Mitchell Report were current and former Orioles.

Is there a huge coverup going on that baseball is doing its damnedest to keep secret? Could you imagine the effect on baseball if we discovered that Ripken's use of steroids was the catalyst behind his eclipse of Gehrig's Ironman record? I personally think it would be much worse than the stain left by Barry Bonds because Gehrig has a mythical esteem unlike the still living Hank Aaron.

I sure hope I'm wrong but I've questioned this for years.

Was does Cal think of ex-Oriole Brian Roberts, who if he farts misses 2 months sitting on the DL?

[rudel.dietrich]

It is amazing the level of ignorance about why athletes take steroids and what anabolic steroids actually do to the human body.

[John Madden]

Here's the priority on steroid knowledge most seem to have.

1. Steroids = worst affront to baseball ever.
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2. What steroids actually do.

[Bluenoser]

The avg fan knows that using a corked bat can help a player hit more HR's. He doesn't need a degree in physics to know why. He understands it's wrong to use a corked bat.

The avg fan knows that steroids can improve a players performance. He doesn't need a degree in medical science to know why. He understands it's wrong to use steroids.

Exactly how much knowledge should the avg fan have before forming an opinion?

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

The avg fan knows that using a corked bat can help a player hit more HR's. He doesn't need a degree in physics to know why. He understands it's wrong to use a corked bat.

The avg fan knows that steroids can improve a players performance. He doesn't need a degree in medical science to know why. He understands it's wrong to use steroids.

Exactly how much knowledge should the avg fan have before forming an opinion?

Actually there has been some conflicting evidence on the whole corked bat thing. I do know that by the law of physis we should employ here, F=MA, the gained acceleration is cancelled out by the lost mass. I strongly suspect the benefit of a corked bat is more psychological than anything.

[wireman]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Tons of guys were taking steroids who didn't look like Paul Bunyan. I'm not saying Cal was among those guys, but the whole thing with basing suspicion on someone's physique is silly.

Well, yeah, you're right and I apologize for that. I think the only thing to base it on would be actual medical evidence, which was kinda my (well-concealed) point.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

The avg fan knows that using a corked bat can help a player hit more HR's. He doesn't need a degree in physics to know why. He understands it's wrong to use a corked bat.

The avg fan knows that steroids can improve a players performance. He doesn't need a degree in medical science to know why. He understands it's wrong to use steroids.

Exactly how much knowledge should the avg fan have before forming an opinion?

Good one. I am getting tired of people telling me what I don't know. I am relying on people who DO know what steroids do to tell me that they:

1. Artificially enhance player performance.
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2. And therefore its use is cheating if it is not a sanctioned and common practice.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

The avg fan knows that using a corked bat can help a player hit more HR's. He doesn't need a degree in physics to know why. He understands it's wrong to use a corked bat.

The avg fan knows that steroids can improve a players performance. He doesn't need a degree in medical science to know why. He understands it's wrong to use steroids.

Exactly how much knowledge should the avg fan have before forming an opinion?

Steroids are not
Take steroids = Instant power

When muscles undergo heavy work, they develop micro tears in them. They repair at the cellular level when they form micro bonds around the tears. The result after the repair is a stronger muscle.
Testosterone boosts this repair work and steroids boost testosterone.
It also blocks cortisol recoptors which is the chemical along with lactic acid that makes muscles feel tired.

i.e. you can work out harder, longer and not feel as tired. Along with HGH you can use different combinations to recover faster and fight through minor injuries.


The idea that an athlete 'looks' like a steroid user is utter and complete bull****.
I am not saying Cal Jr did or did not use. Frankly, I do not care. But his playing type and longevity is exactly the player type that would benefit the most from their use.

We are almost 15 years after SIs landmark article about PED use in baseball and even those who follow the game still have these wild misconceptions about what the drugs actually do.
There still seems to be the perception that you inject them and muscle then pops up underneath the skin like magic.

The main use of the chemicals is to aid in workouts you are already doing and trick the body into not realizing how much work you are subjecting it through.

Instead of focusing on power hitters, steroids and HGH would instead be the perfect answer for finesse players and pitchers who would seek to recover as quickly as possible from previous excursion.

I would not be the least bit surprised if the rise of the modern day reliever was in largest part due to PEDs
Throwing every day is NOT a normal human activity. Throwing a baseball overhand is naturally destructive because it is such an unnatural range of motion and not something you can bounce back from day in and day out.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Steroids are not
Take steroids = Instant power

Who said they are?

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

When muscles undergo heavy work, they develop micro tears in them. They repair at the cellular level when they form micro bonds around the tears. The result after the repair is a stronger muscle.
Testosterone boosts this repair work and steroids boost testosterone.
It also blocks cortisol recoptors which is the chemical along with lactic acid that makes muscles feel tired.

i.e. you can work out harder, longer and not feel as tired. Along with HGH you can use different combinations to recover faster and fight through minor injuries.


The idea that an athlete 'looks' like a steroid user is utter and complete bull****.
I am not saying Cal Jr did or did not use. Frankly, I do not care. But his playing type and longevity is exactly the player type that would benefit the most from their use.

We are almost 15 years after SIs landmark article about PED use in baseball and even those who follow the game still have these wild misconceptions about what the drugs actually do.
There still seems to be the perception that you inject them and muscle then pops up underneath the skin like magic.

The main use of the chemicals is to aid in workouts you are already doing and trick the body into not realizing how much work you are subjecting it through.

Instead of focusing on power hitters, steroids and HGH would instead be the perfect answer for finesse players and pitchers who would seek to recover as quickly as possible from previous excursion.

I would not be the least bit surprised if the rise of the modern day reliever was in largest part due to PEDs
Throwing every day is NOT a normal human activity. Throwing a baseball overhand is naturally destructive because it is such an unnatural range of motion and not something you can bounce back from day in and day out.

I stand by my point - the avg fan does not require this depth of knowledge to know that steroids are wrong.

[John Madden]

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and then remember half of them are dumber than that!"