To DH or not to DH... - Page 2

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 07-28-2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

It's fine if you like the DH, but this is an absurd argument. Having no DH creates strategy, not removes it. I fail to see how you can argue otherwise.

The argument I have heard is that most of the time, the strategic "choices" that are often touted by NL fans are really mostly rote, pre-determined by the situation and the fact that 1/9 of the batting order is most of the time an automatic out. With an AL line-up, more offensive strategic choices (stealing, hit-and-run, and, God forbid, bunting) are available to the manager more often. So, if you're measuring by the volume of choices available, the AL has more strategy.

I'm not sure if I buy that, but there you are. For the record, I'm a fan of an NL team.

Anyway, in real life I actually like the idea that we have an AL and an NL and the DH to differentiate them. And I do the same in OOTP: one sub-league with the DH, and the other without it.

Fyrestorm3 · 07-28-2013, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

The argument I have heard is that most of the time, the strategic "choices" that are often touted by NL fans are really mostly rote, pre-determined by the situation and the fact that 1/9 of the batting order is most of the time an automatic out. With an AL line-up, more offensive strategic choices (stealing, hit-and-run, and, God forbid, bunting) are available to the manager more often. So, if you're measuring by the volume of choices available, the AL has more strategy.

I can buy that. But he was saying that there's more strategy with the DH when it comes to pitchers, which is utter nonsense. Whether you like the rule or not, you have to acknowledge that having the DH makes pitching decisions more straightforward.

Peregrine · 07-29-2013, 12:55 AM

Personally I hate the DH in real baseball but don't mind having it in OOTP - guess I can separate the two in my mind.

DatCloserKid · 07-29-2013, 10:53 AM

^I agree with Peregrine. Especially in my online league where I have 3 third basemen that can murder the ball, on is at DH, one at third, and one at first (his secondary position).

I hate it in MLB. Personally, I am a fan of the Braves, and I love it when a picther (Kris Medlen especially, who is an ok hitting pitcher) come up in a big situation with RISP and bunt or hit a bloop single.

Partly, this may be because I used to play rec ball, and I pitched and hit cleanup-so take my opinions like you want

Matt Arnold · 07-29-2013, 11:18 AM

As a GM, I love the DH. Happens a lot when you have a hotshot prospect come up with the same position as your big vet, and with no DH you can't use him. Or I find that perfect bat for my lineup, but he plays the same position as someone else, and now I have to go to lengths to change them up.

As a manager, I think in general I prefer no DH. Sure, it takes some more effort to manage the bullpen, but with the DH I get these awkward cases where my only backup OF is playing DH for the game, so I have nobody to come in as a defensive sub late in the game, or don't have that flexibility.

As a fan, I think I can live with it either way. In general I likely prefer no DH, as I like watching a bit more of the strategy unfold, but I've learned to accept it. And I think for the game, it's in general a good thing to have the DH spot to allow some older veterans to stay around. And I really have no need to see Ortiz field badly.

Overkill · 07-29-2013, 02:31 PM

This is in response to the OP question of, "What do you guys do?"

Personally, when playing an actual MLB game, I start with the way things actually are. Then, in the automatic evolution part, I check ONLY the box for Designated Hitter Rule. I do not want anything else to change, so I leave the rest unchecked.

Basically, I let the game decide for me. However, there has yet to be a change in any of my games. I do think that if the AL changed in my game, I would change it back, but if the NL changed to having a DH, I would keep it. I just like the offence part and would like to see more of it.

sluggo523 · 07-29-2013, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpejkrm

Because we're offering opinion, I'll say this:

Being able to effectively hit a baseball takes a lot of specialized training, coaching, conditioning, practice, and skill to do.

Being able to effectively throw a 94MPH two-seamer followed up by a 73MPH nasty off-speed pitch takes a lot of specialized training, coaching, conditioning, practice, and skill to do.

Expecting pitchers to do both is asinine, in my opinion. That is why I like the DH.

See and that is the very reason that I enjoy the game without a DH. I compare my reason for this with my abiltity to play golf. I am not the greatest golfer, (bogey, double bodgey). But I go back and play because of that one shot a round. Like when I am laying 3 in a green side bunker and I hit a nice shot and it rolls in for the par. That shot keeps me coming back.

Same thing with the pitcher hitting. I love watching and waiting for the pitcher to hit a gap double, or the homerun. It is just fun to watch because you know the guy just does not spend that much time working on that part of his game.

Just my opinion about the game.

Glenn

The Game · 07-29-2013, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jofos

this is the question. One league has it the other doesn't but should I have a DH in both leagues? Without the DH its basically a free out every 9 batters but you have to use more pinch hitters and it makes a difference on letting a pitcher go an extra inning. What do you guys do?

The DH has its place in certain leagues at certain times. I am all for getting rid of it in the AL.

VanillaGorilla · 07-29-2013, 10:02 PM

In my current league I have league evolution enabled. There is no heads-up given for a change in the DH other than it is in effect (or removed) for the nest season. The NL had the DH introduced and played with it for 24 seasons and then it was removed.

In 4 of the next 6 seasons the NL, without the DH, had a higher league BA and more runs scored.

As I was playing with an NL team, it was difficult because my team had signed players to deals with the idea of the DH being in use.

During this transition period the NL teams were fielding poorer defensive line-ups than those in the AL, and this was of significant enough degree that scoring was above the still DHing AL.

In the last 5 years, the AL has created more offense each season.

07-29-2013, 10:53 AM	#24
DatCloserKid Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: In a Vortex between the US and Canada Posts: 165	^I agree with Peregrine. Especially in my online league where I have 3 third basemen that can murder the ball, on is at DH, one at third, and one at first (his secondary position). I hate it in MLB. Personally, I am a fan of the Braves, and I love it when a picther (Kris Medlen especially, who is an ok hitting pitcher) come up in a big situation with RISP and bunt or hit a bloop single. Partly, this may be because I used to play rec ball, and I pitched and hit cleanup-so take my opinions like you want __________________ Braves for life! All things baseball. Check Out My Dynasty-The Hall of Fame's Second Chance

07-29-2013, 02:31 PM	#26
Overkill Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 195	This is in response to the OP question of, "What do you guys do?" Personally, when playing an actual MLB game, I start with the way things actually are. Then, in the automatic evolution part, I check ONLY the box for Designated Hitter Rule. I do not want anything else to change, so I leave the rest unchecked. Basically, I let the game decide for me. However, there has yet to be a change in any of my games. I do think that if the AL changed in my game, I would change it back, but if the NL changed to having a DH, I would keep it. I just like the offence part and would like to see more of it. __________________ Check out my blog. I've had opinions for a long time, but never really voiced them so I thought I'd give it a shot to see if other people agree. If you read, please feel free to comment. MLB Theorem

07-29-2013, 12:55 AM	#23
Peregrine All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Cary, North Carolina Posts: 635	Personally I hate the DH in real baseball but don't mind having it in OOTP - guess I can separate the two in my mind.

07-29-2013, 11:18 AM	#25
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,259	As a GM, I love the DH. Happens a lot when you have a hotshot prospect come up with the same position as your big vet, and with no DH you can't use him. Or I find that perfect bat for my lineup, but he plays the same position as someone else, and now I have to go to lengths to change them up. As a manager, I think in general I prefer no DH. Sure, it takes some more effort to manage the bullpen, but with the DH I get these awkward cases where my only backup OF is playing DH for the game, so I have nobody to come in as a defensive sub late in the game, or don't have that flexibility. As a fan, I think I can live with it either way. In general I likely prefer no DH, as I like watching a bit more of the strategy unfold, but I've learned to accept it. And I think for the game, it's in general a good thing to have the DH spot to allow some older veterans to stay around. And I really have no need to see Ortiz field badly.

07-29-2013, 10:02 PM	#29
VanillaGorilla All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,371	In my current league I have league evolution enabled. There is no heads-up given for a change in the DH other than it is in effect (or removed) for the nest season. The NL had the DH introduced and played with it for 24 seasons and then it was removed. In 4 of the next 6 seasons the NL, without the DH, had a higher league BA and more runs scored. As I was playing with an NL team, it was difficult because my team had signed players to deals with the idea of the DH being in use. During this transition period the NL teams were fielding poorer defensive line-ups than those in the AL, and this was of significant enough degree that scoring was above the still DHing AL. In the last 5 years, the AL has created more offense each season.