Will I get to play V9 if i predorer V10?

[cody8200]

Markus, just wondering. How did you guys do using Valve last year/presently? Would you ever allow them to do a weekend special for one of your games? Did you see Gabe Newell's numbers on the ridiculous jump in sales when they lowered the price of Left 4 Dead for just one weekend? They put the price at $25 for just one weekend and get this-sales jumped by 3,000%. Pretty crazy. Here is the article. The part that matter is on the bottom.

Gamasutra - News - DICE 09: Valve's Newell On 'Using Your Customer Base To Reach New Customers'

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by cody8200

Did you see Gabe Newell's numbers on the ridiculous jump in sales when they lowered the price of Left 4 Dead for just one weekend? They put the price at $25 for just one weekend and get this-sales jumped by 3,000%. Pretty crazy. Here is the article. The part that matter is on the bottom.

Gamasutra - News - DICE 09: Valve's Newell On 'Using Your Customer Base To Reach New Customers'

This is worth quoting:

"When Valve held its recent holiday sale, titles discounted by 10 percent (the minimum) they saw revenue (not unit) increases of 35 percent. At a 25 percent discount, revenue was up 245 percent. At 50 percent off, revenue was up 320 percent, and at a 75 percent discount, revenue was up an astonishing 1470 percent."

Price cuts = more revenue

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

This is what I would do if I ran OOTP:

All OOTP before 6: Free
OOTP 6: $29.99
OOTP 6.5: Free with purchase of v6
OOTP 2006/2007, I would guess you are not allowed to give these away for free even if you wanted to
OOTP 8: Free, once OOTP 10 comes out
OOTP 9: $39.99, down to $29.99 once OOTP 10 comes out
OOTP 10: $49.99, or $39.99 with proof of purchase of OOTP 9, no preorder discount.

Let me expain my thinking a bit here. The $10 discount for OOTP 10 with proof of purchase of OOTP 9 might do a few things... One, it might decrease the amount of "version skippers" (people who only buy every other or every third copy). Two, it wouldn't make customers pre-order to get the discount.

I would sell OOTP 10 at $49.99 from release day until the announcement of OOTP 11. No discounts (4th of july, christmas, etc). Once the ball is rolling for OOTP 11 (usually in Q1), then I would drop the price to $39.99 and cancel the proof of purchase discount for OOTP 9 to 10, start preorders on OOTP 11, and start the $10 discount for owners of OOTP 10 to buy OOTP 11.

OOTP 9 is currently running for $39.99. I think you would sell a heck of a lot more copies of that game this time of year if the customer got a $10 discount for OOTP 10. Just look at all of the "can i get a discount" or "should i buy v9" posts. Once OOTP 10 is released, I would lower the price to $29.99

OOTP 8 is currently running for $19.99. I have no problem with this price, but I have to wonder how many copies of OOTP 8 are you still selling? How many copies will you sell once OOTP 10 comes out? I would have to think that the money made from OOTP 8 this year would be less than the possible sales created by giving away OOTP 8 as a marketing tool. The only worry here would be that people would grab the free OOTP 8 and never upgrade to a future version. It seems like a small risk to me. If someone grabs OOTP 8 and never upgrades, what where the chances that they were going to buy a future version anyways? I would take OOTP 8, make it free, and post it on every torrent site I could find.

OOTP 2006/2007 I am guessing SI would have to have a say on any pricing decisions for these games... so I will not include them

OOTP 6/6.5 -- These versions are still popular, so I would not touch the price at all. The only thing I would do is package them together. Just sell v6 for $29.99 and give v6.5 away for free with purchase of v6. I just think it would look better from a marketing stand point. The customer wouldn't get that nickel and dime feeling, and you would make the full $29.99 every time.

If e-license doesn't allow you to do "coupon codes" or previous version discounts, then maybe they can work with you to work something out, or maybe someone else can do it.

With my plan, you wouldn't lose that OOTP 6 revenue, you would lose all OOTP 8 revenue, you would probably some revenue from increased OOTP 9 sales, and hopefully gain for OOTP 10 (with the removal of the random discounts, and increased sales from OOTP 9 owners, and word of mouth sales from splashing OOTP 8 all over the internet).

If I ran OOTP then I'd make Markus come to work at least one day a week dressed as Little Bo Peep, just to keep him humble.

[MB.Pelicans]

I would think it might be good for business, new customers especially, to offer an extended demo of v9 with the preorder of v10. Make it last say a month or 6 weeks.

[spleen1015]

They're not going to lower the OOTP9 price before OOTP10 because they think the discounted OOTP9 will take sales away from OOTP10 preorders.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by MB.Pelicans

I would think it might be good for business, new customers especially, to offer an extended demo of v9 with the preorder of v10. Make it last say a month or 6 weeks.

When I demoed Version 2006 it did last a month. When did they shorten it?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

They're not going to lower the OOTP9 price before OOTP10 because they think the discounted OOTP9 will take sales away from OOTP10 preorders.

And that's probably correct.

[MB.Pelicans]

Originally Posted by Curtis

When I demoed Version 2006 it did last a month. When did they shorten it?

I could be wrong, I thought I read it was shorter

[PaganSkipper]

I'm in this same boat. I have pre-ordered OOTP X, and my preview of OOTP 9 has expired. I mistakenly thought the release was imminent, but now I see that OOTP 9 wasn't released until mid-June last year. That is 10 to 12 weeks away if OOTP X follows suit. Will I find another game to play in the meantime and forget about OOTP? Chances are good. Two and Half months is a long time to wait if you don't have access to the previous release. Unless OOTP Developments expects people to buy both version 9 now as well as pre-order 10, which I do not plan on doing, then they have nothing to lose by extending the preview of 9 for the pre-purchasers of 10.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

They're not going to lower the OOTP9 price before OOTP10 because they think the discounted OOTP9 will take sales away from OOTP10 preorders.

Emphasis added.

I don't know if it's true that they think that or not (I suspect that Markus may be the type of business owner who's much more concerned with the quality of the product than actually maximizing revenue), but if they do think that then I think they're most likely wrong.

Further to that article about the increase in revenue (again, those were actual extra revenue $s, not units sold), any small business owner who pays a lot of attention to his sales numbers will probably tell you that:

1) (as already stated) discounts drive sales, substantially, and

2) if you sell a good product/service to someone, chances are they'll become a repeat customer, over and over again.

So are they really that out of touch with business theory (they do discount at times so they obviously do get it somewhat) or is it just that they're very much focused on the product and not so much on making as much money as possible? My bet is it's the latter. And I guess as a customer you can't really blame them if they're focus is making the game the best it can be, it's just too bad some sales and customers may be being lost.

...

As for fantom's suggestion, I don't think it's a bad idea to have discounts for previous customers, but 2 things:

1) Pre-order discounts are good at convincing new customers to buy (if you just have the previous version at a discounted price, as in his suggestion, you might still get some of those prospect customers, but some will be put off and only buy 1 of the 2, if either), and

2) You raise the price by 10$ (the high to 50$ and the discounted to 40$) and you could very well have a severe backlash, especially in this economic environment where every $ matters for some people. I really don't think you'd want to do that.

That said, I can't help but wonder about the price elasticity of OOTP. It's obviously the best in it's niche, but how many of its customers wouldn't balk at a 5 or 10$ price hike (and a hike seems only fair, almost everything else inflates in price)? Many of those who really want the best baseball sim available wouldn't balk, but with how many entertainment options there are out there nowadays and how tight the economy is I have to think many others would. I'm curious how important OOTP is to most of its customers: is it just a game many buy and play a bit, but they could easily go without; or is it for most the game they play far more than any other game and therefore really wouldn't want to go without. I guess most of us forum regulars fall under the latter, but they say we're just a small % of total customers so who knows. Whatever it is, it's a difficult step to take because you never really know until you try it. Without actually looking at the numbers, which is admittedly a big condition, I think my suggestion likely has less risk and more reward for the simple fact that it turns people on instead of off. Yes, OOTP8 for free might turn on a lot of new people and maybe convince many of them to spring for the latest and greatest, but hiking the price under these conditions could very well kill sales.

[BaseballMan]

Not sure if people are ready to pay almost $50.00 for a text based game in this
economy. That is to say im sure the regular customers would pay it because they know Markus's work. But it might be hard to sell to customers who are use to buying console games at $50-$60.00. I think when you say text based they might immediantly think inferior to the eye candy graphics they are use too. Even though in this case i think the text based game has more to offer.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by kq76

Emphasis added.

I don't know if it's true that they think that or not (I suspect that Markus may be the type of business owner who's much more concerned with the quality of the product than actually maximizing revenue), but if they do think that then I think they're most likely wrong.

Further to that article about the increase in revenue (again, those were actual extra revenue $s, not units sold), any small business owner who pays a lot of attention to his sales numbers will probably tell you that:

1) (as already stated) discounts drive sales, substantially, and

2) if you sell a good product/service to someone, chances are they'll become a repeat customer, over and over again.

So are they really that out of touch with business theory (they do discount at times so they obviously do get it somewhat) or is it just that they're very much focused on the product and not so much on making as much money as possible? My bet is it's the latter. And I guess as a customer you can't really blame them if they're focus is making the game the best it can be, it's just too bad some sales and customers may be being lost.

...

As for fantom's suggestion, I don't think it's a bad idea to have discounts for previous customers, but 2 things:

1) Pre-order discounts are good at convincing new customers to buy (if you just have the previous version at a discounted price, as in his suggestion, you might still get some of those prospect customers, but some will be put off and only buy 1 of the 2, if either), and

2) You raise the price by 10$ (the high to 50$ and the discounted to 40$) and you could very well have a severe backlash, especially in this economic environment where every $ matters for some people. I really don't think you'd want to do that.

That said, I can't help but wonder about the price elasticity of OOTP. It's obviously the best in it's niche, but how many of its customers wouldn't balk at a 5 or 10$ price hike (and a hike seems only fair, almost everything else inflates in price)? Many of those who really want the best baseball sim available wouldn't balk, but with how many entertainment options there are out there nowadays and how tight the economy is I have to think many others would. I'm curious how important OOTP is to most of its customers: is it just a game many buy and play a bit, but they could easily go without; or is it for most the game they play far more than any other game and therefore really wouldn't want to go without. I guess most of us forum regulars fall under the latter, but they say we're just a small % of total customers so who knows. Whatever it is, it's a difficult step to take because you never really know until you try it. Without actually looking at the numbers, which is admittedly a big condition, I think my suggestion likely has less risk and more reward for the simple fact that it turns people on instead of off. Yes, OOTP8 for free might turn on a lot of new people and maybe convince many of them to spring for the latest and greatest, but hiking the price under these conditions could very well kill sales.

I can say that Steve believes it because he's the one who told me that was why they won't discount OOTP9.

[snnort]

Just make a "buy pre-order + current version" price.

Take the pre-order price for OOTP X ($29.99).... now add $20 to that price... and you get an eLicense for OOTP 9 AND a preorder for OOTP X. Problem solved.

Preordering OOTP X for $10 off the regular price of $29.99 is cool. But for those new to the community, asking them to spend another $39.99 (more than the pre-order price for OOTP X)... to get OOTP 9, when everyone knows that OOTP 9 for them is just a hold over until OOTP X comes out... well only someone with tons of expendable cash is going to drop down $70 for both right now (at this point in time, this close to OOTP X release).

The point (earlier post) about a 2008 and 2009 Ford Ranger is not nearly the same concept. Few people buy a brand new car every year. But many people buy the new version of their favorite software franchise each and every year (or each and every version).

[kq76]

Originally Posted by snnort

Just make a "buy pre-order + current version" price.

Take the pre-order price for OOTP X ($29.99).... now add $20 to that price... and you get an eLicense for OOTP 9 AND a preorder for OOTP X. Problem solved.

...

That's an excellent suggestion! That way they have absolutely nothing to fear about losing any revenue (same as my, amended, discount the existing version by as much as the pre-order discount - what should they care if the sale is for OOTP9 or 10 if it's for the same amount), but instead of just hoping a bunch will eventually buy both you're giving the customer the option to buy both right then and there. And if the customer has the option to buy both at the same time for 50 or buy 1 for 30 right now and the other for another 30 later then I think you're going to get a fair # who shell out 50 right now and even if they buy them separately for 60 you have to think you'll get more than what you get for offering both for a total of 70 (I find it difficult to believe that many are buying both for a total of 70 right now so all they're probably getting from newcomers is 30 when I think it's likely a decent # would shell out 50 for both). Making it only one transaction also makes it easier for the customer.

Only thing is: do the licensers have the capability right now to set that up?

[brewertoby]

I would've done this in a heartbeat. One smooth transaction, and a small discount. Hard to talk my wife into a seventy dollar purchase when forty of that will be essentially obsolete soon. Much easier to talk her in to one fifty dollar purchase.

[badlefthook]

Yeah, these are the problems I have with OOTP. Every year I end up playing Baseball Mogul even though it's a far inferior product just because as the season opens I get high on baseball excitement and want to play a game with current rosters..etc. So rather than wait until a month or two into the season to be able to get the latest OOTP I end up just buying and "making do" with BM. I realize the best answer here is "be patient dummy!" but that's not my nature..sadly. If I were able to play the previous year's game at a significant discount or as an extended demo (unlock the 1.5 season limit and make it work for 1-2 months before expiring) were I to pre-order the newest version I'd totally be buying OOTP v10 this year. Sadly I figure I'll end up hoping that somehow BM reached some significant advances in its logic this year as I don't figure I'll be willing to wait until June for V10 and I don't want to pay full price for v9 without updated rosters.

Whiney? Sure...but just being honest

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by kq76

That said, I can't help but wonder about the price elasticity of OOTP. It's obviously the best in it's niche, but how many of its customers wouldn't balk at a 5 or 10$ price hike (and a hike seems only fair, almost everything else inflates in price)?

Version 9 was a $10 price hike over Version 8 (in the US). What effect did that have on sales? We may never know, since OOTP Developments seems to regard that as proprietary information.

And I used to own a gaming shop (Pegasus Hobbies). My experience, limited though it was, was that running a sale didn't even increase unit volume. It just moved sales from outside the sales period to inside, where I made less profit per unit. And once customers saw that sales were possible, they just kept their wallets in their pockets until the 'sale' signs went up.

Everyday low prices might be useful, if you have competition (we didn't), but all sales seemed to be good for was moving a particular line of merchandise to free up shelf space — and not very good at that, until prices dropped to half or less of our cost.

[opieandy]

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

Why people think that they should get the full version of the previous game for free simply because the new version is due out in a month or two (or so) is beyond me. I will say that there should be a distinct discount for the previous version during the winter. I have at least seen that with console sports titles. For instance, I would wait until the winter to buy the last season's MLB: The Show for the PS2 and pay only $10 to $15. But I certainly didn't expect it for free.

That's not an apples-to-apples comparison. The gentleman asked whether he could get the prior version for free IF HE PREORDERED THE NEW VERSION. That seems very reasonable to me. You have paid for v10? Here's v9 to tide you over until it's released. In fact, this is not only reasonable but entirely logical from a business perspective, and I'm surprised OOTP doesn't package it this way. I haven't bought OOTP since around v5. I'm intrigued by v10, but lack of a release date keeps me from buying. I want to play something NOW. I would preorder v10 if I could play v9 until v10 is ready.

[opieandy]

One more thought on this topic - didn't OOTP once offer the prior version for free when you bought the new version? I may be getting OOTP mixed up with another game, though I don't think so as I have played very few PC games and almost none that have a lengthy preorder period. If they used to do it, wonder why they stopped?

Give me OOTP 9 with my OOTP 10 preorder. What's the harm? My credit card is ready to go. Seriously.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by opieandy

One more thought on this topic - didn't OOTP once offer the prior version for free when you bought the new version? I may be getting OOTP mixed up with another game, though I don't think so as I have played very few PC games and almost none that have a lengthy preorder period. If they used to do it, wonder why they stopped?

Give me OOTP 9 with my OOTP 10 preorder. What's the harm? My credit card is ready to go. Seriously.

I have been around since v4, and I don't ever remember them giving away the previous version for free. They used to give away older versions (2 or 3 versions in the past), but that has pretty much stopped since 2006.