2025 MLB Thread

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

You need to update this sentence when you use it going forward, for the inclusion of the Mets. Just saying.

All valid points, yours. I would say that the third one is the most prominent. It's hard to feel sorry for any team owner(s) when the least valuable MLB franchise, according to this source, is a cool $1 billion. Then they turn around and blame it on your first point.

But still, for the sake of all of us, let us have a salary cap in the MLB. I am willing to go without MLB action for a couple of years if necessary, and/or to accept strikebreakers if necessary, to see this money madness stop.

For, it's not team owners paying the bill, ultimately. It's you and me.

Yep..forgot about Wilbon, if that's his name. Dude is RICH.

It WILL take a complete shutdown of MLB for one or more years. Seriously. Current contracts like Sosa or Ohtani are impossible to fold into any sort of salary cap..and to handicap other teams by allowing these excess contracts to persist wouldn't help.

Perhaps fining the teams dollar for dollar for every dollar they go over the cap? Share the revenue evenly with all the other teams, ONLY if that money is spent on players. I can see a LOT of teams pocketing the check, and being even MORE greedy.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Yep..forgot about Wilbon, if that's his name. Dude is RICH.

You need to update your edition of "Who is Who in New York City"; the Mets were bought from the Wilpon family by "Uncle" Steve Cohen in 2020.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

You haven't correctly determined what the root cause is for the White Sox's record.

It is a combination of factors.

First is a lack of cost control for their labor. I.E., no salary cap. Dodgers and Yankees will just purchase the best available talent.

Having said that, the Yankees purchased an excellent prospect, back in the day, from the Kansas City Athletics by the name of Mickey Mantle, for $100k, and they were accused of doing the same thing.

Far be it from me to play historian on Bru's side of the East River, but that contains several inaccuracies.

• Mantle did not sign from a minor-league team, but directly out of high school. The Yanks farmed him out for a few years, but he was always their property.

• The Yankee farm that Mickey was briefly sent down to in 1951 was the Kansas City Blues. The Athletics were still in Philadelphia and would remain so through 1954.

• Mickey did not get $100,000. Or even $10,000. He signed for $140/month and a whopping signing bonus of…$1500.

• Given that, the other owners hardly resented the Yankees obtaining Mantle. The deals that the Yanks made with the Kansas City A's (once Roy and Earle Mack sold the team and Arnold Johnson moved it to KC and Johnson was always eager to deal) were about the Yanks picking up top players in exchange for minor-league prospects. (Roger Maris, plus Joe DeMaestri and Kent Hadley, in exchange for Norm Siebern, plus a fading Don Larsen and Hank Bauer, and a never-was Marv Throneberry, for example.)

The only way the Kansas City connection enabled the Yankees to spend extra dough was that it was a way for them to duck the rules that forced teams to keep "bonus babies" on their bench for several years, as the Dodgers had to do with the 18-year-old Sandy Koufax. Here, the Yanks could sign a Clete Boyer to a nice bonus, "trade" him to Kansas City to duck the "can't send him down" requirement, and then "trade" to get him back when Boyer was Bronx-ready.

Yes, Major League teams sometimes bought from minor-league teams (especially when the PCL was still independent), but that wasn't solely the Yankees. Connie Mack bought Lefty Grove from the (minor-league) Orioles for $100,600 in 1925. Quite often the cash was only part of a trade: the Red Sox sent $35,000, two major leaguers and two minor leaguers to the (minor league) Padres for Ted Williams, and the Yankees got Joe DiMaggio from the San Francisco Seals for $50,000, two major leaguers and two minors.

The amateur draft was not instituted because the owners were afraid of "the Yankees buying all the players" but because all the teams wanted to screw the "unproven kids" out of their negotiating leverage, rather than paying Rick Reichardt $200,000 or Bob Bailey $175,000 or whatever. (Particularly if the "kids" were now allowed to be significantly darker than Reichardt or Bailey, given the easing of unofficial racial quotas.)

Like the draft, a salary cap is an anti-competitive device designed to help oligarchs oppress workers and steal a disproportionate amount of the revenue. The fact that some people tend to resent a well-paid worker rather than the corporate pigs who inflame passions against the workers through their compliant flacks in the press doesn't change that. JMO.

How many folks live near Green Bay? If the NFL didn't have a salary cap, could they be REMOTELY competitive??

Yes, because the NFL's primary source of revenue is from the TV contract, which is shared equally between all 32 teams.

As for attendance, enough people live near enough to Green Bay that they've sold out every home game since November 22, 1959, when 297 seats went unsold, probably because the Redskins were a lousy draw.

[Cobra Mgr]

Teamwork

[mytreds]

Baseball needs to be rid of its antitrust exemption. Getting rid of the legal monopoly that is the MLB is a far better solution than a salary cap.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Westheim

You need to update your edition of "Who is Who in New York City"; the Mets were bought from the Wilpon family by "Uncle" Steve Cohen in 2020.

I don't know much about the Mets, other than that in St. Louis, they're commonly referred to as "pond scum." Not sure why.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Far be it from me to play historian on Bru's side of the East River, but that contains several inaccuracies.

• Mantle did not sign from a minor-league team, but directly out of high school. The Yanks farmed him out for a few years, but he was always their property.

• The Yankee farm that Mickey was briefly sent down to in 1951 was the Kansas City Blues. The Athletics were still in Philadelphia and would remain so through 1954.

• Mickey did not get $100,000. Or even $10,000. He signed for $140/month and a whopping signing bonus of…$1500.

• Given that, the other owners hardly resented the Yankees obtaining Mantle. The deals that the Yanks made with the Kansas City A's (once Roy and Earle Mack sold the team and Arnold Johnson moved it to KC and Johnson was always eager to deal) were about the Yanks picking up top players in exchange for minor-league prospects. (Roger Maris, plus Joe DeMaestri and Kent Hadley, in exchange for Norm Siebern, plus a fading Don Larsen and Hank Bauer, and a never-was Marv Throneberry, for example.)

The only way the Kansas City connection enabled the Yankees to spend extra dough was that it was a way for them to duck the rules that forced teams to keep "bonus babies" on their bench for several years, as the Dodgers had to do with the 18-year-old Sandy Koufax. Here, the Yanks could sign a Clete Boyer to a nice bonus, "trade" him to Kansas City to duck the "can't send him down" requirement, and then "trade" to get him back when Boyer was Bronx-ready.

Yes, Major League teams sometimes bought from minor-league teams (especially when the PCL was still independent), but that wasn't solely the Yankees. Connie Mack bought Lefty Grove from the (minor-league) Orioles for $100,600 in 1925. Quite often the cash was only part of a trade: the Red Sox sent $35,000, two major leaguers and two minor leaguers to the (minor league) Padres for Ted Williams, and the Yankees got Joe DiMaggio from the San Francisco Seals for $50,000, two major leaguers and two minors.

The amateur draft was not instituted because the owners were afraid of "the Yankees buying all the players" but because all the teams wanted to screw the "unproven kids" out of their negotiating leverage, rather than paying Rick Reichardt $200,000 or Bob Bailey $175,000 or whatever. (Particularly if the "kids" were now allowed to be significantly darker than Reichardt or Bailey, given the easing of unofficial racial quotas.)

Like the draft, a salary cap is an anti-competitive device designed to help oligarchs oppress workers and steal a disproportionate amount of the revenue. The fact that some people tend to resent a well-paid worker rather than the corporate pigs who inflame passions against the workers through their compliant flacks in the press doesn't change that. JMO.



Yes, because the NFL's primary source of revenue is from the TV contract, which is shared equally between all 32 teams.

As for attendance, enough people live near enough to Green Bay that they've sold out every home game since November 22, 1959, when 297 seats went unsold, probably because the Redskins were a lousy draw.

Just one comment. We're all at the mercy of what we read, from where, and whether the source is trustworthy.

I have known this "fact" about Mantle for about ... 60 years. Thanks for the correction.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

I don't know much about the Mets, other than that in St. Louis, they're commonly referred to as "pond scum." Not sure why.

Best fans in baseball (tm)

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Best fans in baseball (tm)

It isn't fair to generalize, but Card's fans are pretty knowledgeable, and absolutely treat other fans and teams well. I have never seen a fight in the stadium, and I have been to perhaps 200 mlb games here in STL.

[kq76]

Westheim trying to find his seat at Citi Field.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by kq76

Westheim trying to find his seat at Citi Field.

Say, that's the game that I asked Westheim in the Mets thread to have them throw the contest to the Pirates as a good will gesture. He came through, all right, flying all the way to New York to make sure. Thanks again, Westy!

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by kq76

Westheim trying to find his seat at Citi Field.

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Say, that's the game that I asked Westheim in the Mets thread to have them throw the contest to the Pirates as a good will gesture. He came through, all right, flying all the way to New York to make sure. Thanks again, Westy!

I can neither confirm nor deny whether I was or was not at Citi Field, and why I would or wouldn't have been there.

Secret missions gotta stay secret.

(burps)

[Westheim]

Byron Buxton has played more than 102 games in a season ONCE in his career.

And it's happening again... Both Buxton and Correa left the game against the Orioles to undergo concussion protocol test thingies.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Byron Buxton has played more than 102 games in a season ONCE in his career.

And it's happening again... Both Buxton and Correa left the game against the Orioles to undergo concussion protocol test thingies.

Mike Trout is envious

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Mike Trout is envious

Anthony Rendon and Yoan Moncada checking in.

[Amazin69]

Jacob de Grom says hi.

(Love you so much, Jake. Wish you well.)

[Westheim]

Trout and Jakey have a legit HOF case due to their dominant peaks. The others, not so much. Rendon will probably get a few votes one day. Moncada won't. And Buxton - while without a doubt a very good hitter - due to the injuries has never been anything *but* a train wreck.

[Cobra Mgr]

Brandon Hyde let go as O's Mgr

[Cobra Mgr]

Col14, Az 12. Not in Denver.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Col14, Az 12. Not in Denver.

It's not as if the stadium that we used to call "The BoB" can't be a catalyst for offensive explosions, too. Just as Mike Jacobs or the rest of the Willie Randolph-era Mets. Good times, good times.

Meanwhile, the victory has propelled the Rock Pile to the lofty heights of 8-37, a .178 winning percentage that projects to 29-133 over a full season. So the Pile has hope now of staying below the 1899 Cleveland Spiders' record for total losses, if not as yet in range of the 1916 Philadelphia Athletics (36-116) tally of fewest wins in full season, post-1900.

Keep fighting, Pile! With luck, "merely god-awful" status may be yours!

(I know that Choo-Choo Coleman went from 1961 Phillies [all-time record 23-game losing streak] to the 1962 Mets [40-120]. Are there any refugees from last season's White Sux cast adrift these Rox?)