Very disappointing decision 2.0

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

I suspect the "key" difference is OOTP makes money on the baseball references and SportsLogos.net does not. The only thing SportsLogos.net is doing is collecting publicly available information and displaying it in one location.


Apples and Oranges.

I see your point, but you could argue that technically OOTP was not even displaying copyrighted material, wearas www.sportslogos.net is. The logos for the league & team are copyrighted material.

So OOTP MUST destroy any leagues with the ***, (while not displaying logos technically) yet, this website can display the copyrighted material without consequence. Doesn't seem right to me...it feels very overzealous and detached from the spirit of the law.

[pauwoo]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

I suspect the "key" difference is OOTP makes money on the baseball references and SportsLogos.net does not. The only thing SportsLogos.net is doing is collecting publicly available information and displaying it in one location.


Apples and Oranges.

They make money. As a virtual museum with permission to display the logos. You'll notice that EPL isn't listed at all and for NCAA teams you can't right click the logos. They go into more detail in their FAQ. They use Criteo's retargeting ad platform & Webrate estimates that they get 25,864 page views per day, valuing them at half a million dollars. Not sure how much profit that would be after paying for server space, etc... but they do cash checks.

[pauwoo]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

So OOTP MUST destroy any leagues with the ***, (while not displaying logos technically) yet, this website can display the copyrighted material without consequence. Doesn't seem right to me...it feels very overzealous and detached from the spirit of the law.

I like how succinctly BIG17EASY put it...

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

OOTP sells a video game that included the league. Konami has the exclusive rights to the league in any video game. It's that simple.

I don't understand the the thought process that the actions taken are overzealous and detached from the spirit of the law. When I was a kid one of my older Sister's boyfriends told me he was going to work me over if I didn't stop picking on him, but I didn't listen and when he came after me I tried to hit him with my skateboard... I missed, because he was bigger and faster than me. Instead of me racking him, he managed to take it from me and hit me with it. And it hurt. Here, it seems that Konami (or whomever) is making a similar threat where physical violence is replaced by a lawsuit that would have obvious financial implications, and, unlike me who was stupid, they (OOTP/COM2US in my example) have made the wise decision to listen and act accordingly.

It sucks. For a lot of people. It's lame. Definitely not a good look. And no developer enjoys getting caught with their hand in the honey pot... Having said that, continuing to ignore these obvious realities isn't doing any good and asking the same questions in different ways isn't going to change that.

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by pauwoo

I like how succinctly BIG17EASY put it...



I don't understand the the thought process that the actions taken are overzealous and detached from the spirit of the law. When I was a kid one of my older Sister's boyfriends told me he was going to work me over if I didn't stop picking on him, but I didn't listen and when he came after me I tried to hit him with my skateboard... I missed, because he was bigger and faster than me. Instead of me racking him, he managed to take it from me and hit me with it. And it hurt. Here, it seems that Konami (or whomever) is making a similar threat where physical violence is replaced by a lawsuit that would have obvious financial implications, and, unlike me who was stupid, they (OOTP/COM2US in my example) have made the wise decision to listen and act accordingly.

It sucks. For a lot of people. It's lame. Definitely not a good look. And no developer enjoys getting caught with their hand in the honey pot... Having said that, continuing to ignore these obvious realities isn't doing any good and asking the same questions in different ways isn't going to change that.

+1
at this point, the dead horse has been beaten into paint, or worse. It's not worth the time anymore. We complained, we asked for guidelines on th3 framework of what was allowed... we got nothing but silence. Most of the answers have since bee.n discovered by the community. So at this point there isn't anything new to the situation. It's either play the game or don't

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I see your point, but you could argue that technically OOTP was not even displaying copyrighted material, wearas www.sportslogos.net is. The logos for the league & team are copyrighted material.

The issue with OOTP isn't copyright material. The issue is another entity has an exclusive license to make a computer game using the league.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Brad K

The issue with OOTP isn't copyright material. The issue is another entity has an exclusive license to make a computer game using the league.

You People

[kq76]

Originally Posted by David Watts

You People

Will you (and others) just stop? Please? He's already posted elsewhere his intent to walk away from this. It's not easy for some people to walk away from arguments, and I don't think it is for him, but just give him the opportunity to do so without baiting him further.

You want to talk about *** and/or Konami, that's fine, just try to leave PSU out of it.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by ehalt

The previous vent thread (https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...343366&page=10) was closed due to, "people in this and any thread related to this difficult situation decide to continue using it as a reason to attack one another, make xenophobic comments, and all the other bad behavior currently on display." I'm interpreting that at face value to mean that complaining about bad business practices is still perfectly fine, and that OOTP has no intention of shutting down any and all criticism.

So I'm re-opening the discussion of OOTP's decision to damage players' save files. Please continue discussing here without xenophobic comments, which must have been in the part of the previous thread which I didn't read.

Hope you enjoyed your time on the board. Most boards at least suspend if not ban for reopening a closed thread.

[MikeS369]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

Hope you enjoyed your time on the board. Most boards at least suspend if not ban for reopening a closed thread.

My guess is he is okay considering this thread was started 1/18.

[OutS|der]

I'd still like to know the reason behind the scrambling of players when it was the league and team names that was the issue or least is what leads to the scamble

[ashantewarrier]

Talk about beating a dead horse...give it a rest already.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

I'd still like to know the reason behind the scrambling of players when it was the league and team names that was the issue or least is what leads to the scamble

My guess is that player names and stats are protected under Japanese intellectual-property law. I'll add that those things are not protected under American IP law, but then OOTP sells games worldwide, so it has to conform to laws all over the world.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I see your point, but you could argue that technically OOTP was not even displaying copyrighted material, wearas www.sportslogos.net is. The logos for the league & team are copyrighted material.

So OOTP MUST destroy any leagues with the ***, (while not displaying logos technically) yet, this website can display the copyrighted material without consequence. Doesn't seem right to me...it feels very overzealous and detached from the spirit of the law.

The difference is that the League granted the Company an exclusive license to produce games. That means that the Company can now enforce the League's intellectual-property rights when it comes to competing games, and the Company has a big incentive (and the money) to do that.

In contrast, if a website is violating the League's intellectual-property rights, it's up to the League to enforce them. And the League might not really care about some website using its trademarks or might not have the resources to litigate it.

So this is really an apples-and-oranges comparison here.

[mytreds]

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

Talk about beating a dead horse...give it a rest already.

It’s not really beating a dead horse until the devs come out or some company statement is made. As it is, everyone not involved is in the dark and speculations abound.

It’s as if suddenly everyone’s bank statements were scrambled and reduced to 0, with no explanation. And after a month when people still haven’t gotten an answer, the bank says “Talk about beating a dead horse”.

This is a big issue and until it is resolved it needs to be present. Especially to prospective buyers of the next game.

[Rain King]

The Devs (through the Mods) have made it clear this is not something they can comment on beyond the statement that Markus made. So it certainly is beating a dead horse requesting/expecting/demanding an official statement beyond that for OOTP23.

Sure, nobody knows anything exactly, but people have provided plenty of reasonable and plausible explanations for why things went down the way they did. It is certainly up to individuals as far as what to think, but there isn't anything new to add to the conversation at this point.

I imagine OOTP24 will bring about further (although probably not complete) clarification just based on how it functions in certain areas.

[tm1681]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

I'd still like to know the reason behind the scrambling of players when it was the league and team names that was the issue or least is what leads to the scamble

Because sometimes if an entity has exclusive rights to a league they're also going to have exclusive rights to that league's players.

Not all players' unions have the contractual ability to be able to negotiate separate rights contracts on their own behalf, and I'm guessing Japan's is one of them because their players have gone on strike exactly once in pro history, and that was due to a proposed team merger that could have cost 100 players their jobs in addition to a rumored second merger that was in the works.

[RubeBaker]

Here's my final take on this never-ending topic. I really like everyone at OOTP. Rich, TJ, Jeff, Adam, and everyone including former OOTP staff like Kris. All of them are good people. Markus, Andreas, all of them. I have no "inside baseball" (no pun intended) but I'm willing to bet any amount of money that those in the know are just as disappointed, if not more so, than all of us.

Be that as it may, I'm still going to support OOTP and you're never going to see me badmouth the company or its employees. I will be critical and criticize when I feel it's necessary, but it will always be conducted with a decorum of respect for the company and the people who work for it.

I hope that at some point in the future, preferably this year, that some agreement can be reached to bring back those leagues and players to the game. That's honestly all I want to see for OOTP24. The rest of it is icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure that what they have in store for OOTP24 is going to be worth the wait. Until then, I'll continue to play OOTP and FHM and hope for the best.

[HRBaker]

Removed

[PSUColonel]

In the Cleveland Case, woke corporations are to blame…not the team. I don’t think the team would have changed its name unless many companies began boycotting the sales of Indians merchandise.

[BIG17EASY]

Let's at least try to keep this conversation limited to the OOTP situation. We're sliding precariously toward other topics and language that won't go well.

I'll just remind everyone once again that this appears to be the result of an exclusive license between the league in question and Konami. It's not that the league chose not to negotiate with OOTP/Com2US. It's not that the league doesn't care about OOTP's fanbase. It's the simple fact that there's an exclusive contract between that league and Konami, which means no other company can use that league while that contract is valid.