New York Met's Official 2005 Thread

[marioh]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

Thats exactly the problem, you get fooled into thinking he's better than he is because you watch him and form your opinion on a couple of outstanding plays. But it doesn't matter how exciting a player you are or how fast you run the bases if your only on them 29% of the time. If you like having a guy leading off who's OB% will be around .300 than by all means enjoy watching him, but I definately wouldn't want him slowing my offense down from the top of the order. I take it back, being the NL hitting 8th wouldn't be the best idea, but he should be hitting 6th or 7th and no higher.

I agree that the way he walks now, unless he starts hitting .350, he's not going to be an effective leadoff hitter. But, you don't put someone with his type of speed and ability to turn outs into hits, singles into doubles, in front of the pitcher. His speed makes him an ideal leadoff hitter, his patience, as it is now, does not. He'll learn some patience with more exposure to big league pitching and more at bats. He certainly won't put up Barry Bonds walk totals, but he'll improve from where he currently is.

[KILLERBS24]

Jose Reyes is an exciting player like the Mets love to say! The problem is he isn't the superstar the Mets would like everyone to think he is. He will be Omar Vizquel without the Gold Gloves. Reyes will prolly win a few but not 9, Reyes will steal a few more bases per season than Omar did, Omar walked a little more than Jose will but basically the differences wont be huge and they will be pretty similar in the long run IMO.

[K SmoOth]

I have to disagree, I really think Reyes will be a a star. He is only 21 and is getting into his own, he can run play defense and with time he will develop more as a hitter. He will hit 10-15 Homeruns a year, bat .300+ and steal 40+ bases and win gold gloves as you said. The only problem is the walks, if he starts taking mroe pitches and all it will make him hit mroe and get on base more often giving him a good OBP.

[QuestGAV]

I don't see why Mets fans shouldn't be thrilled if Reyes turns out to be another Omar Vizquel. He certainly doesn't have much more upside than that, somewhere just short of Edgar Renteria. There's no power that can put him on par with A-Rod, Tejada, Nomar, or even Jeter. Among the next generation, both Khalil Greene and Bobby Crosby look better than him and I may be missing a few. Reyes will comfortably be a top 10 shortstop but there are alot of "ifs" he has to fulfill if he wants to be in the top 5.

[potatoman]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

I don't see why Mets fans shouldn't be thrilled if Reyes turns out to be another Omar Vizquel. He certainly doesn't have much more upside than that, somewhere just short of Edgar Renteria. There's no power that can put him on par with A-Rod, Tejada, Nomar, or even Jeter. Among the next generation, both Khalil Greene and Bobby Crosby look better than him and I may be missing a few. Reyes will comfortably be a top 10 shortstop but there are alot of "ifs" he has to fulfill if he wants to be in the top 5.

I think Reyes will become a top 5 short stop. He has the ability to hit 20 HRs a year, steal 40 bases, hit .320 and play good defense. If he can get his walks up, he would be a GREAT short stop...

[QuestGAV]

Once again, alot of "ifs". What about his 13 career minor league homers says to you that he can hit 20 per year at the major league level beyond blind faith?

I'll add another "if"... he can be a top 10 shortstop IF he can stay healthy.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Melo

Mycroft, I listened to the entire game on the radio at work. Benson seemed very sharp for the first two innings and got through the first 4 very well. In the 5th he got tagged and ran out of gas. I think he threw 88 pitches in all. All in all he pitched well, like he did in spring training.

To me, the biggest problem with Seo is that he's only been a 6 inning pitcher. Even when he's pitched well, it's like he hits a wall. I would have liked it if he had a good lead the other so we could have seen if he could have stretched it out even further than 7 full.

Reyes: can we give him a couple of seasons before we condemn him to the 8th hole?

I agree about Seo being a 6 inning pitcher (Of which the Mets already have too many. And although I love Leiter, who was my favorite Met pitcher ever, I'm glad they did not pick up his option, since he was a 5+ inning pitcher last year. Seo should be packaged with Cameron, or Matsui for a quality 2B, or at least a proved MR and prospects.

Meanwhile, the problem with Reyes is that he's far too young for anyone to decide exactly *what* he will turn out to be. . . the only kid I know who had talent like that and was a sure thing mighta been some kid. . . I think his name was Willie.

OK, anyone want to rank the best 3 best things the Mets have done this year? Or the three best things they did NOT do this year?

Best things they have done:

1. Pedro. I like Beltran, but I'm not as sure about him, given how much LONGER and more $$$ his contract is. Also, despite his 2HRs today, I want to see some more immediate impact. Meanwhile, Pedro has been putting butts in the seats and he's been winning key games.

Pedro is also an excellent investment for next year as a marketing tool, which guarantees more revenues which (hopefully) will be pumped into the team. He may wash out that final year, but his immediate impact should have long lasting consequences later on.

2. Whatever it is that the pitching coaches and Peterson are doing with the minor leaguers. While I don't like whatever it is that Glavine and Zambrano are doing, I like that Heilman and Seo seem a heck of a lot better than last year, and that we have new guys popping up like Bell, Hill and possibly Humber (although I haven't heard much about him recently)

3. Omar Minaya: While it wasn't exactly hard to improve the Mets, and I don't like how he handled Leiter or his stupid radio commercial, I've liked what he did when he was here (especially leaving when the ship was sinking), and his work in Montreal. Now that he's back I also appreciate that he's managed to help pick up a *deep* bench and went out and got the best while staying under the cap.

3(tied). Keeping Wright as the third baseman. For at least no other reason than so I don't have to hear that "______ is the ____th 3rd baseman for the Mets. . ." Also, can we all at least agree that Wright is a very legitimate 3rd base prospect, more so than even Reyes currently is at his position?

3 things that the Mets did NOT do that I appreciate:

1. Not getting Delgado. Delgado was old, cost too much and was not a good fielder. Mr. Alphabet Mientkiewicz is great for a young infield (and Matsui). Delgado was controversial in Toronto with that anthem controversy, which I'm sure would have played wonderfully in NY and is obviously a streaky hitter reminiscent of Vaughn and other failed 1st base attempts. . .
Mientkiewicz is also great because he's a great fielder with a good bat. He reminds me of my favorite Met as a kid, Hernandez.

2. Not signing Leiter. Too much money, not enough innings, and then no room for Martinez (See above). I'm sure if we had Leiter and his meltdowns, the Mets and Yankees would be fighting it out to get to the cellar.

3. Not trading Cameron. Cameron actually provides flexibility for the trading deadline, and the fact that the Mets have 4 legitimate outfielders as well as Valent, along with 6.5 legitimate infielders (Matsui being the .5), the Mets bench has been better than it has in many years.

[marioh]

Cameron sure is hitting the ball well. That's great news for Mets management if they're looking to move him.

Personally, I think Wright is going to be a better all around player than Reyes. He looked impressive last year, and is carrying that over to this year. Hopefully, the Mets don't make a stupid move and get rid of him. It's not too often the Mets come across a quality, young third baseman.

[Melo]

I think Wright will be more valuable as well. I also think the Mets left side of the infield is in good hands for the next 5 tro 10 years. I don't think that you'd have to worry about David Wright being moved. He'll be on of the faces of the organization for the next decade.

I'm loving the Pedro deal. Is 4 years too long? Probably, but if he pitch this and next year at the level he is at, then it is worth it...even if he's a .500 pitcher and falls off the map in the last year. He still would have accomplished what he was brought here for. Don't discount Beltran, even if he doesn't "earn" every dollar of that contract. He's in his prime and unless he does a Griffey, he'll be productive throughout his whole contract. He's a foundation guy.

I'm still not sold on Peterson and I think he's still here because he's owed a ton of cash. If Willie is OK with him, I am too. Whoever decide that Heilman should alter his delivery made a big mistake, IMO. I think Minaya will construct a thriving minors system.

I love Omar and it's about time. Wilpon should have turned the franchise over to him the year before.

Wright isn't going anywhere.

I love Mientkiewicz. He is so slick around the bag and is just what Reyes and Wright need. Delgado and his offense would have been nice but unlike Pedro, he would have been dead weight at the end of his contract without having the bang that Pedro has at the beginning of the contact, if that makes any sense.

I was glad to see Leiter go. I was glad to see Franco go. Both were good Mets but both had a direct line to the owner (as well as Glavine) which ultimately hurt the team. Leiter was no longer worth the money and had become a clubhouse lawyer and I'm shocked that Johnny was able to hook on with another club.

Cameron is off to a great start and like Floyd will perform better now that the club is winning. I'm betting Piazza will retire but he won't go out weakly. He may go out being hot and cold but not weakly. Matsui is servicable won't hurt us if we don't have to rely on him for much.

We can establish 3 young players possibly as well as shed some serious salary. If we could just find a way to dump Glavine, I'd be

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Melo

I was glad to see Leiter go. I was glad to see Franco go. Both were good Mets but both had a direct line to the owner (as well as Glavine) which ultimately hurt the team. Leiter was no longer worth the money and had become a clubhouse lawyer and I'm shocked that Johnny was able to hook on with another club.

Melo,

While I agree with just about everything you've said (see above), I'm not as sure about this point. I agree that Leiter and Franco had to leave, I'm just not as sure about the whole clubhouse lawyer flap/crap.
I personally doubt that Minaya had any ill intent in getting rid of several players. I think, instead that he wanted to bring in new people to complete his 'vision' for the team. You see it all the time in the corporate world. Besides, since Minaya has been much more visible and the Wilpons much less so (Thank goodness), what difference would it have really made if Leiter had some line to the owner, if the man could pitch like Pedro is pitchini now.

BTW, while Zambrano's problems may be blamed for Peterson, I believe Heilman's are entirely someone else's. Heilman was asked to change his pitching stance befor Peterson was part of the system.



And on an entirely different note: I'm sick of DeJean. Hernandez and Looper may give me hearburt, but at least I can trust them to get the job done most of the time. DeJean on the other hand :P. . . Let me see. . .

The ideal Mets rotation for me would be:

Martinez
Trachsel (When he gets back)
Benson
Glavine
Heilman

LR: Zambrano
Seo

Mop up: DeJean

Middle: Bell
Aybar

Setup: Koo
Hernandez

Closer: Looper

Can anyone come up with a way to get Yhency Brazoban from LA?

[Melo]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Melo,

While I agree with just about everything you've said (see above), I'm not as sure about this point. I agree that Leiter and Franco had to leave, I'm just not as sure about the whole clubhouse lawyer flap/crap.
I personally doubt that Minaya had any ill intent in getting rid of several players. I think, instead that he wanted to bring in new people to complete his 'vision' for the team. You see it all the time in the corporate world. Besides, since Minaya has been much more visible and the Wilpons much less so (Thank goodness), what difference would it have really made if Leiter had some line to the owner, if the man could pitch like Pedro is pitchini now.

BTW, while Zambrano's problems may be blamed for Peterson, I believe Heilman's are entirely someone else's. Heilman was asked to change his pitching stance befor Peterson was part of the system.



And on an entirely different note: I'm sick of DeJean. Hernandez and Looper may give me hearburt, but at least I can trust them to get the job done most of the time. DeJean on the other hand :P. . . Let me see. . .

The ideal Mets rotation for me would be:

Martinez
Trachsel (When he gets back)
Benson
Glavine
Heilman

LR: Zambrano
Seo

Mop up: DeJean

Middle: Bell
Aybar

Setup: Koo
Hernandez

Closer: Looper

Can anyone come up with a way to get Yhency Brazoban from LA?

DeJean just doesn't have it. Honestly, I would have rather they kept Ricky Bottalico.

Leiter and Franco could and would go directly to Fred Wilpon. I'm sure they tap danced on Phillips', Duquette's and Howe's heads. That's not good but it is in the past. Let's move to Minaya's vision

I think he has a plan and I think he's confident enough not to deviate from it. Because of that, he's less likely to make the desperate move that the Mets have become famous for. I think he's smart enough to try and stock the pen with "hold the fort" kind of guys like Hernandez, DeJean, etc. until the minors start producing. Already he's weeded Heredia (DL forever) and Matthews (DFA) out. DeJean will be the next to go. I hope. I was hoping Ring would get it done but he didn't look ready yet.

It'll be interesting to see how things work out with Cameron. He's off to a great start but It's too early for a trade.

[GForce]

Diaz cooling off a bit recently likely gives Cameron an extended time before a trade. That situation will be very interesting to watch.

GH

[ctorg]

I had the same feelings about Leiter going as others. He did a very good job in his time with the Mets, and he seemed like a good guy, but his time with the Mets needed to end when it did. He's on the tail end of his career, and the Mets needed to get some new arms in there.

[Melo]

I'm officially starting my "Make this Glavine's last year" campaign. I guess his contract is 3 years with with an option for the 4th. The option kicks in automatically if he pitches 600 innings over 3 years, 400 innings over the last 2 years or 200 innings in the final year. So far we have:

2003 - 183.1
2004 - 212.1

Which means that the most he can pitch this year is 187.1 innings. Through his first 7 starts, he's amassed 36.2. Assuming 35 starts he'll wind up with 183.1 and not make the cut. However, the way he is pitching is hurting us.
Am I a bad person for hoping he gets hurt?

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Melo

I'm officially starting my "Make this Glavine's last year" campaign. I guess his contract is 3 years with with an option for the 4th. The option kicks in automatically if he pitches 600 innings over 3 years, 400 innings over the last 2 years or 200 innings in the final year. So far we have:

2003 - 183.1
2004 - 212.1

Which means that the most he can pitch this year is 187.1 innings. Through his first 7 starts, he's amassed 36.2. Assuming 35 starts he'll wind up with 183.1 and not make the cut. However, the way he is pitching is hurting us.
Am I a bad person for hoping he gets hurt?

How about not hurt. How about suspended for fighting?

Or, if you want to make some sacrifice, hope that he gets bombed enough this year that he can't stay in games long enough to accumulate the innings.

He really does need to go. Well, he needs to not have been signed in the first place, but it's too late for that.

[Melo]

Big test for the Mets tonight:

Leicester makes first career start for Cubs against Mets

New guys have given us problems the last few years

[Melo]

bumping and Willie Randolph is supposed to be on WFAN at about 4 PM today. If you're interested and can't get the station they'll probably have the interview on the station site by tomorrow. I'm looking forward to hearing what Willie has to say. I read some quotes of his today and he is clearly not happy with Koo's last thre outings. I'm also curious to see what he says about Glavine, his bullpen's overall performance and his thoughts on CameronDiaz.

[KILLERBS24]

Well I'm pretty bored atm so here you go Melo

Koo- "he's my left handed specialist, he hasn't had alot of opportunities. he's my guy, I'm staying with him I gotta get him more chances"

"like that the guys in the pen can give us multiple innings"

Benson- "a little concerned, give him more time, been decent, problem maybe lack of focus, still feel good about chris"

Glavine- "location is key, been working real hard on the side and looked good."

OF playing time- "like to get a little rotation system going in OF, Beltran will need a couple days off here and there. Floyd is a little cold but he's a big bat need to keep him in the lineup"

Reyes/Matsui/top of the order- "I'm concerned, need to be patient with both of them, It'll take a while for Reyes to learn to be patient. we'll play with it back and forth, Matsui moving between #2 and #8.

Heilman/Ishii- "Ishii coming back soon will be a tough decision to make, Heilman maybe go to bullpen if his arm can take the quick turnaround pitching more often"

Valent- "I like Eric, hoping to get him in the lineup more, like the bench guys they always keep themselves ready."

"We have a long way to go, we're still getting a feel for each other, we'll get better as the year goes on"

[Melo]

Originally Posted by KILLERBS24

Well I'm pretty bored atm so here you go Melo

Koo- "he's my left handed specialist, he hasn't had alot of opportunities. he's my guy, I'm staying with him I gotta get him more chances"

"like that the guys in the pen can give us multiple innings"

Benson- "a little concerned, give him more time, been decent, problem maybe lack of focus, still feel good about chris"

Glavine- "location is key, been working real hard on the side and looked good."

OF playing time- "like to get a little rotation system going in OF, Beltran will need a couple days off here and there. Floyd is a little cold but he's a big bat need to keep him in the lineup"

Reyes/Matsui/top of the order- "I'm concerned, need to be patient with both of them, It'll take a while for Reyes to learn to be patient. we'll play with it back and forth, Matsui moving between #2 and #8.

Heilman/Ishii- "Ishii coming back soon will be a tough decision to make, Heilman maybe go to bullpen if his arm can take the quick turnaround pitching more often"

Valent- "I like Eric, hoping to get him in the lineup more, like the bench guys they always keep themselves ready."

"We have a long way to go, we're still getting a feel for each other, we'll get better as the year goes on"

Pretty good summation. I like how he slipped the "Cliffy is one of my big guns" in when he was talking about the outfield rotation. Cliff Floyd loves to be stroked

I'm pretty sure you're not a Mets fan so what's your take on Willie thus far?

I like his demeanor and his approach. I like the fact that although he thinks a lot of players need of improvement he's patient enough to put them in certain situations to see how they react.

[KILLERBS24]

I'm not really sold on Willie as a great manager yet, he might turn out that way. Its hard to really tell because he has so many problem areas with this team, just getting them through the year with a respectable record will be a good job. I havent seen alot of the Mets so as far as managing a game I couldn't say anything good or bad about him.
The one thing that has bothered me about Willie thus far is the way he talks about Reyes. The "he's young I don't want to take his agressiveness away" speech kinda disturbs me. The kid needs to learn patience at the plate, its not just going to happen. Someone needs to be getting in the kids ear about it and thats Willies job. Now maybe he has said something to him, but publicly he keeps saying he's not worried about it, and he doesn't want to change him, that worries me.
But its obvious he worked under Torre as far as talking with the media. Just like Joe, Willie will always find a way to talk good about a player no matter how awful they are, or how bad they are playing. Thats a good thing, but you can only listen to so much of that before it gets annoying. Just once if a guy is just playing brutally I'd like to hear them come out and say he's playing terrible, I don't know what were going to do. Like Joe with Giambi this year, he still is positive when he talks about him, come on Joe just come out and say it.