OOTP 13 - Discussion of the new Features & Screenshots...

[Cras]

Originally Posted by RchW

Well said. I'd also challenge anyone to tell me they get any better value out of any other $40 expenditure.

I will take that challenge. Just keep in mind that I am still a long time OOTP-head and have pre-ordered number 13 as well.

For 40 bucks, FSX costs about that much does it not? Some of you may not be big flight sim fans, but for those that are, I have had FSX for years now, and have got thousands and thousands of hours of enjoyment (and frustration) out of it. Of course, FSX to the max requires a heafty investment in other areas.

For flight sim of a different colour, there is Orbiter. Can have endless fun flying around the solar system, and that is free.

Civilization series always have a tendency to suck me into a gaming zone for hours and hours on end. In fact, I just started a new game in Civ IV, and how long ago was that thing released?

But after all that, OOTP is usually for me a good value. I can get an Xbox game and play it for 20 or so hours, and it takes 60 bucks out of my wallet. 40 bucks for OOTP, and I gurantee you I will play it for more than 20 hours. OOTP 12 I have not played that much I must admit, compared to the other years of OOTP. Various reasons behind this, but I still played it for more than 20 hours, and I just started playing my league again and still find it good fun.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Cras

I will take that challenge. Just keep in mind that I am still a long time OOTP-head and have pre-ordered number 13 as well.

For 40 bucks, FSX costs about that much does it not? Some of you may not be big flight sim fans, but for those that are, I have had FSX for years now, and have got thousands and thousands of hours of enjoyment (and frustration) out of it. Of course, FSX to the max requires a heafty investment in other areas.

For flight sim of a different colour, there is Orbiter. Can have endless fun flying around the solar system, and that is free.

Civilization series always have a tendency to suck me into a gaming zone for hours and hours on end. In fact, I just started a new game in Civ IV, and how long ago was that thing released?

But after all that, OOTP is usually for me a good value. I can get an Xbox game and play it for 20 or so hours, and it takes 60 bucks out of my wallet. 40 bucks for OOTP, and I gurantee you I will play it for more than 20 hours. OOTP 12 I have not played that much I must admit, compared to the other years of OOTP. Various reasons behind this, but I still played it for more than 20 hours, and I just started playing my league again and still find it good fun.

No problem. My comment was aimed at some who may not like the price or the discount compared to other years. I'll have to check out FSX.

[Ceej]

Originally Posted by jmlima

I find this comment, which I've seen several times completely baffling.

So, OOTP wants to be a simulation, but yet, it fails to correctly simulate the crucial elements of the field where the game is played. It's almost as if it wanted to be a driving simulator and failed to take onto account road type and width.

Certainly this element should be much more immediate than the constant myriad of cosmetic improvements. Won't even go into historical leagues.

Well, I didn't want my first post in two years to be complaining about the lack of a major feature that's likely too ambitious to get in at this point. I thought it would be more productive to vow to be active on the boards this year, and do anything I could to help build a consensus in the community that this would be a useful feature in the game that many people would like to see. It seems to me that the league organization and business model aspects of the game get more requests for improvement than play-by-play mode does, so maybe what you and I want to see is going to be a tougher sell.

Originally Posted by Biggio509

It is not that it does not simulate the crucial elements of the field. These are just represented by the baseball world's park factors. So dimensions mean something since they are what drives HR vs. R and vs. L for instance, as well as BA and doubles and triples. It just does it in a way that does not use dimensions. So a 500 ft. CF fence that is 30 feet high does not directly go into the sim but the fact such a park has few home runs or lots of extra base hits does.

Correct, but... you're just as likely to see a home run over that 30 foot high, 500 ft. CF fence as you are to see one over an 8 foot CF fence that's 400 feet away. So yes, the park is producing the correct rates of XBHs, but they're being distributed around the park in a way that doesn't have any relationship to its unique dimensions and fence heights.

If you're playing in the Polo Grounds there should be lots of home runs down the lines, and virtually no home runs to center except maybe for the inside-the-park kind, to the point where a player who actually manages to hit one into the CF stands gets a note in the league news. If the play-by-play took park dimensions/fence heights into account you could see plays like this:

-if the fence in an area is low enough, balls sometimes hop over it for an automatic double. "And, the ball one-hops the right field wall. The umpire signals two bases, and (batter name) coasts into second. That's a bit of a tough break for (batting team name), the speedy (batter name) might have legged out a triple if it had stayed in the park."

- home run-robbing catches in appropriate parts of the park.

- line-drive singles off shallow walls like the kind you see at left field in Fenway.

- flyouts to the warning track being more common in some parks than others. Maybe in a deep park, the fielder is more frequently described as having to hustle to get to the warning track to make the out.

That's before even getting into the truly quirky and "fun" stuff like balls getting lost in the ivy at Wrigley, clanging off speakers at the Kingdome, or telling you when a home run reached the upper deck if you're someplace like Yankee or Tiger Stadium. Diamond Mind Baseball had these kinds of park-specific plays since... 2004, I think, and it's the very last feature I can think of that DMB has that OOTP still doesn't, which is why I've had so long to think about it

The way I see it, the game would still use park factors to determine outcomes exactly like it does now, but then it would "check" the park and maybe the batter's power score in certain situations, and decide that, say, this particular double is going to be a fence-hopping kind of double. So yeah, this is what I have in mind when it comes to "having everything"

[Jontler]

Originally Posted by Spindel

Combine that with the financial aspects not seeming to work right when importing, plus long standing little things like WAR being implemented wrong, plus the sort players bug STILL hanging around from OTTP 2009?

Don't forget that all teams have the ability to view the current amount of money that any other team has out in favored offers at any given time. Solo players probably don't care, but in online leagues it is rather simple to determine who a player favors and how much money that team has out on them.

Nevermind advanced stats being essentially broken. A proper calculation of the run environment would require some pretty major changes in the backend. That's something that takes more than a fresh coat of paint.

Please don't mistake frustration from Spindel, myself, or others as some kind of raging vitriol. Understand that these things are mentioned with the hopes of a better product. It's difficult, however, for those of us in online leagues to continue to purchase a new product every year when so many seemingly simple bugs remain unacknowledged and persist from version to version.

Would I be happy if the engine was redesigned to properly track the run environment? Ecstatic. I would, however, be placated if I could not sort the players in a league, potential only or otherwise, and determine precisely where they rank next to each other.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by Jontler

Don't forget that all teams have the ability to view the current amount of money that any other team has out in favored offers at any given time. Solo players probably don't care, but in online leagues it is rather simple to determine who a player favors and how much money that team has out on them.

Nevermind advanced stats being essentially broken. A proper calculation of the run environment would require some pretty major changes in the backend. That's something that takes more than a fresh coat of paint.

Please don't mistake frustration from Spindel, myself, or others as some kind of raging vitriol. Understand that these things are mentioned with the hopes of a better product. It's difficult, however, for those of us in online leagues to continue to purchase a new product every year when so many seemingly simple bugs remain unacknowledged and persist from version to version.

Would I be happy if the engine was redesigned to properly track the run environment? Ecstatic. I would, however, be placated if I could not sort the players in a league, potential only or otherwise, and determine precisely where they rank next to each other.

What did you think of my list a couple pages back?

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by Cras

I will take that challenge. Just keep in mind that I am still a long time OOTP-head and have pre-ordered number 13 as well.

For 40 bucks, FSX costs about that much does it not? Some of you may not be big flight sim fans, but for those that are, I have had FSX for years now, and have got thousands and thousands of hours of enjoyment (and frustration) out of it. Of course, FSX to the max requires a heafty investment in other areas.

Another flight sim fan. I bought FS9 five years ago for $20 and spend more time on that than everything else put together. And I agree with the hefty investment in other areas. Flight simulator is indeed a huge money pit.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by Ceej

That's before even getting into the truly quirky and "fun" stuff like balls getting lost in the ivy at Wrigley, clanging off speakers at the Kingdome, or telling you when a home run reached the upper deck if you're someplace like Yankee or Tiger Stadium. Diamond Mind Baseball had these kinds of park-specific plays since... 2004, I think, and it's the very last feature I can think of that DMB has that OOTP still doesn't, which is why I've had so long to think about it

I, for one, asked Markus 2-3 years ago if he would enable ballpark-specific PbP. Just for starters, I wrote up 100+ ballpark-specific PbP lines for use in OOTP. The idea was rejected as too difficult to code.

[Cornelius McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I, for one, asked Markus 2-3 years ago if he would enable ballpark-specific PbP. Just for starters, I wrote up 100+ ballpark-specific PbP lines for use in OOTP. The idea was rejected as too difficult to code.

Well, you never know. For a couple of years I pushed for a save during pbp. Markus answered one of my posts and said it was too difficult to code. Then the following year.....

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I don't see anything about fixes to the world_default.xml file

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That would be listed under "more..."

Will it be more user friendly for editing? In OOTP12 you can edit in game but only add a nation, not cities. Is this going to be possible in 13?

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I, for one, asked Markus 2-3 years ago if he would enable ballpark-specific PbP. Just for starters, I wrote up 100+ ballpark-specific PbP lines for use in OOTP. The idea was rejected as too difficult to code.

Originally Posted by rich12545

Well, you never know. For a couple of years I pushed for a save during pbp. Markus answered one of my posts and said it was too difficult to code. Then the following year.....

I've been pushing for league associations for 6+ years and now look. It could happen.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

I've been pushing for league associations for 6+ years and now look. It could happen.

The real world did kind of help us out here. The old can't create an uneven subleague model had to go with the ML having 15 teams in each league in 2013. Fortunately, Markus added league associations along with the necessary recoding to allow uneven teams in subleagues. This makes 19th century play particularly easier and a little more historic.

I am curious to see if this will allow for a AAA IL vs. PCL playoffs or if there can be a joint allstar game among affiliated leagues. Particularly minors who have all-star games for AA and AAA not an IL allstar game and a PCL all star game. I am ok if it doesn't do this for minor leagues but I would like to see it.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by kq76

My heart (finally) skipped a beat when I saw, "League Associations and Expanded Playoff Modes", but I can't help but worry whether or not it'll really be everything we want. I'll try to keep my expectations in check. We've been waiting so long for this I just don't want us to be disappointed with it now that we've finally gotten it.

This is a critically important point. I think people definitely need to keep expectations in check for major new features, especially when those have been delayed for a number of years because of the complexity involved. And league associations and expanded playoffs have been a LONG time in coming.

I am very glad to see these features added, but like most of the significant additions to the game, I would expect that we will have a few options for associations and expanded playoffs, but these features will not be comprehensive for their initial release. I suppose we could hope for some changes in subsequent patches or updates, but it might take two or three versions of OOTP to give everyone the power and flexibility they have wanted in these areas.

So I'd keep the expectations low but hope for the best. Then we'll get what we expect or be pleasantly surprised. Either way, hopefully any disappointment is avoided.

[david limbaugh]

Originally Posted by RJB7777777

Marcus I've been with you and OOTP for a good many years already. I've talked to you and interviewed you for our League the "ATHFBL".

Now I have a big request to make of you, PLEASE make a spot so we can change the Font Size. I'm 63 Years Old now and my eyes are going bad so please make it where we can change the Font Size.

Thank you, Rick (RJB7777777)

I hear ya! I solved this by hooking up my 56" TV to my PC :-) Shoguns in Total War are almost lifesize - LOL!

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

I hear ya! I solved this by hooking up my 56" TV to my PC :-) Shoguns in Total War are almost lifesize - LOL!

What res do you use. I have astigmatism and when my prescription is a little off things get blurry real quick. On HD resolutions the text seems a lot smaller than on my old 1440 X 900 resolution monitor. It is great for graphics but it seems like the text gets smaller with higher resolution. Not sure if this is said right but I think it is more pixels but they are smaller or something. I have to sit a lot closer to the TV to play OOTP or FM than STW. It is just weird because the pictures seem bigger and clearer but the text seems smaller! Maybe it is because I was about 2 feet from the monitor on my desk and 6 to 10 ft from my TV.

[Qrusher14242]

Originally Posted by RchW

Well said. I'd also challenge anyone to tell me they get any better value out of any other $40 expenditure.

Team Fortress 2! but OOTP comes close heh

[Qrusher14242]

Originally Posted by Cras

I will take that challenge. Just keep in mind that I am still a long time OOTP-head and have pre-ordered number 13 as well.

For 40 bucks, FSX costs about that much does it not? Some of you may not be big flight sim fans, but for those that are, I have had FSX for years now, and have got thousands and thousands of hours of enjoyment (and frustration) out of it. Of course, FSX to the max requires a heafty investment in other areas.

Man, i love playing FSX, but it seems to crash so much on Windows 7 So i dont play it as much anymore.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by david limbaugh

I hear ya! I solved this by hooking up my 56" TV to my PC :-) Shoguns in Total War are almost lifesize - LOL!

Originally Posted by Biggio509

What res do you use. I have astigmatism and when my prescription is a little off things get blurry real quick. On HD resolutions the text seems a lot smaller than on my old 1440 X 900 resolution monitor. It is great for graphics but it seems like the text gets smaller with higher resolution. Not sure if this is said right but I think it is more pixels but they are smaller or something. I have to sit a lot closer to the TV to play OOTP or FM than STW. It is just weird because the pictures seem bigger and clearer but the text seems smaller! Maybe it is because I was about 2 feet from the monitor on my desk and 6 to 10 ft from my TV.

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

Team Fortress 2! but OOTP comes close heh

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

Man, i love playing FSX, but it seems to crash so much on Windows 7 So i dont play it as much anymore.

Let's keep it on topic, boys.

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

As far as features go, League Associations and Custom playoffs is a really good idea.

Thank you Markus!

I agree, those are great new features; however, i really don't see there being enough. I will pre-order but this is really lacking and i hope there's more to come because it's alittle disappointing.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by dave1927p

I agree, those are great new features; however, i really don't see there being enough.

For those of us who play historical 19th century as it was and not with the OOTP base model this is a lot. I talk about the league association of course, but maybe the custom playoff would make possible to play the long World Serie / Exibition like the one in 1887 who was a 15 games serie.

It is more than enough for me to pre-order.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

Although, this would be nice it would be very hard to implement. Prior to the 1930's info is scarce at best on minor league teams .... The whole evolution of the minors was really about reserve clause rights.

Well, it was also about how major and minor league clubs related to each other, and the rules which governed that relationship. Working agreements, for example, were limited prior to the early 1930s due to the way they were structured; those rules were rewritten and working agreements became much easier. To do justice to the way the minor leagues have evolved not only means recreating the essence of those sort of rules but also the game's financial system. It'd be a big undertaking. (To be honest, I suspect the game's engine really isn't set up to accommodate what would be necessary. It may be possible to retrofit the necessary changes into the current engine, but that comes with its own limitations).

Originally Posted by Biggio509

I don't think it is workable to have historically accurate minor relations without 2 separate systems that can be turned on and off at the appropriate time.

I don't think that's necessary. You just need one system that's flexible enough to handle the changes that occurred over the years. Getting that system designed and implemented is the hard part.

Originally Posted by Cras

I can get an Xbox game and play it for 20 or so hours, and it takes 60 bucks out of my wallet.

Or you could do what I do: wait until console games hit the used/bargain bin, then buy. Or borrow games from friends.