Spritze/Garlon DB - Page 10

Spritze · 06-29-2008, 06:59 PM

Well I don't know what to say about that. I am using it right now. It is 1887 in my universe and Bud Fowler is on my team. He is my starting 2B.

Let me know what year you are starting with and I'll test it.

Irish Fan · 06-29-2008, 07:02 PM

1920

It seems to be funny because they suddenly after restarting to 1920 they are not there.

Thanks

Irish Fan · 06-29-2008, 07:05 PM

Would it matter if I opened the Master file in Open Office ??

I did not change anything I just looked around

fredmanrique · 06-29-2008, 07:32 PM

Spritze,
I completely agree that the top 1% should be dominant- that's the point I'm trying to make. It seems to me, given my first pass, that right now the Spritze33DB creates a dominant group of Japanese players and a lousy/normal group of Negro Leaguers. Certainly, the real life stats for the most of the Negro Leaguers don't set up them up for success, so to speak- Buck Leonard and Josh Gibson, for example, have stats that you could argue are terrible.
I am running another sim now, I'll post the results tomorrow.
I would just like to see a DB where BOTH groups were good/dominant.

Spritze · 06-29-2008, 08:20 PM

Opening of the master is just fine. If you open the batting file it will mess things up as it is too big to open and gets truncated.

Spritze · 06-29-2008, 08:22 PM

They are both equally dominant in the Spritze db.

Irish Fan · 06-29-2008, 08:25 PM

OK

Well I am going to try another reinstall with a clean registry and everythign.

3.3 worked great until all of a sudden I restarted and it wasnt working !

I will try again tomorrow ! Let me know if you come up with any brainstorms !!

Thanks for your help !!

plannine · 06-29-2008, 08:54 PM

Make sure you set the path to the modified DB after you select "Start Game".
In the advance mode setup it doesnt keep the path of the league DB that you picked like if you used the Creation Wizard to start a new league. (it picks the game default DB)

Paige appeared in my testing of 1920-50. [he went 283-235 in 23 years with the Phillies and the Indians]

plannine · 06-29-2008, 09:12 PM

Spritze,

do you have a list of the non-major leaguers in the DB?
(Japanese, Negro Leaguer (those who played in the majors and had their careers extended and those who didnt make the majors) and Minor League stars)
I liked them all-capitalized, so i want to go in and change them so they are easier to pick out when simming.

thanks, either way

Chris (aka plannine)

Spritze · 06-30-2008, 12:51 AM

Yes, I have a list. So do you but you just don't know it. Merely sort the master CSV by the college field. The negro leaguers all have a college of Negro and so do the Japanese players. I am pretty sure I used Negro for them as well, if not, look under Japan.

The Garlon/Spritze db does not have any of the SABR minor league stars, the Spritze db does have a few and more every day as that is what I am working on right now plus it has many more negro and japanese players than the Garlon db does.

Irish Fan · 06-30-2008, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plannine

Make sure you set the path to the modified DB after you select "Start Game".
In the advance mode setup it doesnt keep the path of the league DB that you picked like if you used the Creation Wizard to start a new league. (it picks the game default DB)

I will try that !

I have always placed the New DB in place of the lahman (copy and paste)

I have also deleted the 5 lahmans and replaced them with the new DB files.

This has always worked but now it doesnt

I am going to reinstall this afternoon and check to see if any free agents are listed before I replace with new DB. There have always been a few when I start.

Irish Fan · 06-30-2008, 10:43 AM

Clean installed 9.0.27

used defaults for everything

Started in 1920 no Free Agents at all, usually I have a few and database still does not show negro leaguers !!

Wish I had kept 9.0 install because that was working !

Spritze · 06-30-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Fan

I have always placed the New DB in place of the lahman (copy and paste)

I have also deleted the 5 lahmans and replaced them with the new DB files.

This has always worked but now it doesnt

You need to run this as an external mod.
Do not copy and paste. Do not activate neutralized stats. Do not delete and replace. Those habits just don't work anymore.

Irish Fan · 06-30-2008, 11:02 AM

OK I see but without the DB lahman still wont show FA ??

How would I use the db per your instructions ?? (I am not very bright

need guidance ??

clamel · 06-30-2008, 01:36 PM

It´s a damn pitty that the "gap" years didn´t work with the DB your created for the game at hand.

This extra just creates neutralized stats and gap years.

If this had been in the package I think we could have had both worlds in one set. Getting the ratings based on the neutralized stats. Getting real stats look at the realstats and clicking on neutralized of course the neutralized.
Then also getting those missing players when you start in a wrong year.
I think folks doesn´t know that a huge number of players might drop out whenever they start, unless it´s in 1901 I think.

Just seen Emil Brown in Oakland missed 2002-04 playing in Mexico and many that just played a couple of years in Japan then came back to the Majors. They will stay retired for all time, unless unretired...

Your SpritzeDB 3.3 fixes this but then you got neutralized stats and starting in mid 1980 gets typical records like Homeruns by Hank Aaron to be different than history. That´s kind of sad.

Perhaps in the next OOTP10 we will get a sure way to play history WITHOUT messing around with extra mods or things.

fredmanrique · 06-30-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

They are both equally dominant in the Spritze db

Spritze,
I'm sorry, but I'm just not finding this to be true. I'm on my 2nd run-through, up to 1968, and what I have is leaderboards/HOF littered with Japanese & the minor leaguers you filled in, with the Negro Leaguers very poorly represented. (Both times, Jud Wilson & Cristobal Torriente are the only NeL's in the HOF.)
I was looking at real-life stats-
Ike Boone (A MONSTER through both sims)
17 seasons, only 4 seasons with fewer than 130 games played. .341/.406.508 Career line.

Oscar Charleston-
27 seasons, only 4 seasons over 130 games played, .282/.333./.491 Career

Buck Leonard-
22 seasons, ONE season over 100 games played?!? .214/.327./.361 Career.

And on and on- so far, I've looked at 15-20 Negro Leaguers and this is largely the same across the board.
Please just tell me I am missing something, I am using the Spritze33DB downloaded from All Sim Baseball- that's the correct one, yes?
I have NO problem with the performance of the Japanese & filled in Minor Leaguers, I just think the Negro Leaguers deserve the same.

plannine · 06-30-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Yes, I have a list. So do you but you just don't know it. Merely sort the master CSV by the college field. The negro leaguers all have a college of Negro and so do the Japanese players. I am pretty sure I used Negro for them as well, if not, look under Japan.

The Garlon/Spritze db does not have any of the SABR minor league stars, the Spritze db does have a few and more every day as that is what I am working on right now plus it has many more negro and japanese players than the Garlon db does.

That was too simple.....the Japanese players shoud be easy to find by place of birth (except for Starffin).

I've notice alot more players in the master file without lahman ID's. are they to be added later?

thanks a million...

Spritze · 06-30-2008, 11:25 PM

Plannine: The fellers without Lahmans were managers and such only. Comes that way in the standard Lahman.

Fred: This doesn't help a lot but Oscar C. played 1743 games in my last league using the 3.3 db and averaged 24 HR and hit .303 for his career
BUT
The previous league using the exact same db he averaged 20 HR and hit .268 in 1166 games

So it varies.

Buck Leonard did suck in both leagues, so I'll check on him.... The Leonard challenge is partly/mainly/mostly caused by weakening players with less than 200 AB as he did not have many seasons with a lot of games. Plus his big counting stats/numbers were racked up in leagues with high numbers anyway. He hit .325 in leagues where the average player who went on to the Major Leagues hit .340 so he comes down a lot when neutralized. All negro league players get neutralized to other negro leaguers who eventually moved on to the majors. That is the only good solid way to get an approximation of the leagues overall strength.

Spritze · 07-01-2008, 12:02 AM

I altered Buckies stats to give him more years with 200 AB's. It'll be in the next version.

I also noted his first year was age 26 and he played until he was 48 so that also shortens his career. I double checked and he really did start playing in the Negro Leagues at 26.

No Pepper · 07-01-2008, 09:22 AM

Thank you Spritze, for all your work. It's really a win-lose situation with these non-major league players. We win because they are included, but we "lose" because its tough to model them a way that makes everyone happy.

06-29-2008, 07:02 PM	#182
Irish Fan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 96	1920 It seems to be funny because they suddenly after restarting to 1920 they are not there. Thanks __________________ Irish Fan

06-29-2008, 07:05 PM	#183
Irish Fan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 96	Would it matter if I opened the Master file in Open Office ?? I did not change anything I just looked around __________________ Irish Fan

06-29-2008, 08:25 PM	#187
Irish Fan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 96	OK Well I am going to try another reinstall with a clean registry and everythign. 3.3 worked great until all of a sudden I restarted and it wasnt working ! I will try again tomorrow ! Let me know if you come up with any brainstorms !! Thanks for your help !! __________________ Irish Fan

06-29-2008, 08:54 PM	#188
plannine All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 572	Make sure you set the path to the modified DB after you select "Start Game". In the advance mode setup it doesnt keep the path of the league DB that you picked like if you used the Creation Wizard to start a new league. (it picks the game default DB) Paige appeared in my testing of 1920-50. [he went 283-235 in 23 years with the Phillies and the Indians] __________________ Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa - Casey Stengel Last edited by plannine; 06-29-2008 at 10:19 PM.

06-29-2008, 09:12 PM	#189
plannine All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 572	Spritze, do you have a list of the non-major leaguers in the DB? (Japanese, Negro Leaguer (those who played in the majors and had their careers extended and those who didnt make the majors) and Minor League stars) I liked them all-capitalized, so i want to go in and change them so they are easier to pick out when simming. thanks, either way Chris (aka plannine) __________________ Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa - Casey Stengel

06-29-2008, 06:59 PM	#181
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Well I don't know what to say about that. I am using it right now. It is 1887 in my universe and Bud Fowler is on my team. He is my starting 2B. Let me know what year you are starting with and I'll test it.

06-29-2008, 07:32 PM	#184
fredmanrique Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 76	Spritze, I completely agree that the top 1% should be dominant- that's the point I'm trying to make. It seems to me, given my first pass, that right now the Spritze33DB creates a dominant group of Japanese players and a lousy/normal group of Negro Leaguers. Certainly, the real life stats for the most of the Negro Leaguers don't set up them up for success, so to speak- Buck Leonard and Josh Gibson, for example, have stats that you could argue are terrible. I am running another sim now, I'll post the results tomorrow. I would just like to see a DB where BOTH groups were good/dominant.

06-29-2008, 08:20 PM	#185
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Opening of the master is just fine. If you open the batting file it will mess things up as it is too big to open and gets truncated.

06-29-2008, 08:22 PM	#186
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	They are both equally dominant in the Spritze db.

06-30-2008, 12:51 AM	#190
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Yes, I have a list. So do you but you just don't know it. Merely sort the master CSV by the college field. The negro leaguers all have a college of Negro and so do the Japanese players. I am pretty sure I used Negro for them as well, if not, look under Japan. The Garlon/Spritze db does not have any of the SABR minor league stars, the Spritze db does have a few and more every day as that is what I am working on right now plus it has many more negro and japanese players than the Garlon db does.

06-30-2008, 10:43 AM	#192
Irish Fan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 96	Clean installed 9.0.27 used defaults for everything Started in 1920 no Free Agents at all, usually I have a few and database still does not show negro leaguers !! Wish I had kept 9.0 install because that was working ! __________________ Irish Fan

06-30-2008, 11:02 AM	#194
Irish Fan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 96	OK I see but without the DB lahman still wont show FA ?? How would I use the db per your instructions ?? (I am not very bright need guidance ?? __________________ Irish Fan

06-30-2008, 01:36 PM	#195
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,038	It´s a damn pitty that the "gap" years didn´t work with the DB your created for the game at hand. This extra just creates neutralized stats and gap years. If this had been in the package I think we could have had both worlds in one set. Getting the ratings based on the neutralized stats. Getting real stats look at the realstats and clicking on neutralized of course the neutralized. Then also getting those missing players when you start in a wrong year. I think folks doesn´t know that a huge number of players might drop out whenever they start, unless it´s in 1901 I think. Just seen Emil Brown in Oakland missed 2002-04 playing in Mexico and many that just played a couple of years in Japan then came back to the Majors. They will stay retired for all time, unless unretired... Your SpritzeDB 3.3 fixes this but then you got neutralized stats and starting in mid 1980 gets typical records like Homeruns by Hank Aaron to be different than history. That´s kind of sad. Perhaps in the next OOTP10 we will get a sure way to play history WITHOUT messing around with extra mods or things.

06-30-2008, 11:25 PM	#198
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Plannine: The fellers without Lahmans were managers and such only. Comes that way in the standard Lahman. Fred: This doesn't help a lot but Oscar C. played 1743 games in my last league using the 3.3 db and averaged 24 HR and hit .303 for his career BUT The previous league using the exact same db he averaged 20 HR and hit .268 in 1166 games So it varies. Buck Leonard did suck in both leagues, so I'll check on him.... The Leonard challenge is partly/mainly/mostly caused by weakening players with less than 200 AB as he did not have many seasons with a lot of games. Plus his big counting stats/numbers were racked up in leagues with high numbers anyway. He hit .325 in leagues where the average player who went on to the Major Leagues hit .340 so he comes down a lot when neutralized. All negro league players get neutralized to other negro leaguers who eventually moved on to the majors. That is the only good solid way to get an approximation of the leagues overall strength.

07-01-2008, 12:02 AM	#199
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	I altered Buckies stats to give him more years with 200 AB's. It'll be in the next version. I also noted his first year was age 26 and he played until he was 48 so that also shortens his career. I double checked and he really did start playing in the Negro Leagues at 26.

07-01-2008, 09:22 AM	#200
No Pepper All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,570	Thank you Spritze, for all your work. It's really a win-lose situation with these non-major league players. We win because they are included, but we "lose" because its tough to model them a way that makes everyone happy. __________________ Uniforms compatible with OOTP23/24 Historical Major League Baseball 1901-current Historical Major League Baseball 1871-1900 Historical Federal League Historical Negro Leagues