The Twins are playing in the Minor Leagues! - Page 10

SoxWin · 09-05-2002, 09:24 PM

He'd probably smite us heathens down from his spot in the heavens.

Cheers

Rich

Malleus Dei · 09-05-2002, 11:04 PM

I still think the Twinkies are weak.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 09-05-2002, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
I still think the Twinkies are weak.

Now that's a knowledgable TWINS fan talking...LOL!

Mariner and Giants Fan · 09-05-2002, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22

Ah, yes, the old "he's winning the argument so let's say that his arguing is a sign of fear" game. But amazingly the same doesn't hold true for you espousing your beliefs and telling others they are wrong...no, that's a sign of your {misguided) faith. But for others to say their beliefs is a sign of doubt.
You seem to be desperately searching for something with all of this "material" you gather and try to pass on...you're desperate (which is what drives most weak souls like yourself to the farce of a god in the first place) to believe something will take care of you, something will save you, and you try to pass it on because you don't have enough faith in it yourself, you need others to believe it too in order to validate what you claim to believe. Weak, sad, pathetic...the marks of a true believer.
Open your mind...it will benefit you greatly.

GH

I never told anyone that they were wrong! I just stated my beliefs because someone mentioned that man created God which I did not agree with.

If someone believes in themself that is their business not mine (well and God's too). I do have confidence in my earthly abilities. However like all of mankind I am flawed and commit sins and the only way to overcome my sin weakness is through the Lord and his word.

You believe that you have to rely on yourself and I think that is sad and lonley but it is your choice. Because I choose to rely on my faith in my creator does not make me weak it actually makes me strong!

So go ahead and pass your judgement on me if that is your desire.....that really is no concern of mine because in the end the only being capable and worthy of judging me is God. It is he whom I must answer to on that day when I pass away from this earthly realm.

I wonder if you will still only have faith in yourself as you lay upon your death bed.....I do hope not because that would truly be sad....

Malleus Dei · 09-06-2002, 12:07 AM

Okay, you've forced me to this...clutch hitting is a myth!

Dwolfson20 · 09-06-2002, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

I am a man for Jesus, being Jewish has nothing to do with that. Exactly what view does represent the Jewish Faith? The Orthodox view of following the 612 (400 plus for the women) commandments, going to Synagogue to pray and study daily and keeping kosher? The Conservative view of following the ten commandments, going to Synagogue Friday & Saturdays along with the Jewish Holidays and keeping some of the kosher laws? Or the Reform view which is basically do what you want but attend Synagogue 3 days a year (The High Holidays)?

That is where I think the "religious" problem comes in. People get so confused by all the rules and regulations which was never God's intent. Yes the laws are very important but they are not the be all and end all, God is! Religion just gets in the way of Man and God. You do not need to be "religious" to believe in and follow God! Yes the Jews are the chosen people, chosen to deliver God's message to the rest of the world. Seems like we didn't do such a great job of that, huh! However I am not criticiaing Jews as I am one and all of mankind has sinned and is fallable. However what I do believe is that Jesus died for our sins and created the new covenant with God. The ONLY way to the FATHER is through the SON!

Sorry to perpetuate the discussion, but it must be noted that if you believe in Jesus as the savior, you aren't Jewish. You can say that you are if you want; I can't keep you from doing that. But I claim absolutely no connection whatsoever to you, or recognize you as Jewish. In fact, the Jews for Jesus are much worse than the most devious evangelist Christians as far as trying to coerce and convert others, especially Jews. It's a very dangerous phenomenon that hopefully is just a fad and will die out eventually.

Now back to your regularly scheduled forum.

atomheart · 09-06-2002, 01:16 AM

Organized religion is so senseless.

What's the point of an arguement concerning ideals and opinions?

In a perfect world, that answer would be "to enlighten and learn from each other." but here, and everywhere else, it's to prove a point. To say, "My religion is better that yours."

Believe me, it's better being agnostic. The outsiders view is much more refreshing, without the bias and tunnel-vision. That way, I learn about things outside my realm, and could possibly concieve another point of view.

I'm not picking on anyone at all, just stating an opinion.

I really don't mean to offend. Perhaps it's the coffee.

Malleus Dei · 09-06-2002, 01:24 AM

Look! Behind you! The Winged Victory of Samothrace!

Mariner and Giants Fan · 09-06-2002, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwolfson20

Sorry to perpetuate the discussion, but it must be noted that if you believe in Jesus as the savior, you aren't Jewish. You can say that you are if you want; I can't keep you from doing that. But I claim absolutely no connection whatsoever to you, or recognize you as Jewish. In fact, the Jews for Jesus are much worse than the most devious evangelist Christians as far as trying to coerce and convert others, especially Jews. It's a very dangerous phenomenon that hopefully is just a fad and will die out eventually.

Now back to your regularly scheduled forum.

(1) Not you nor any man (or woman) can take away my Jewishness. God created me as a Jew, that has not changed.
(2) Connection to me? I don't even know you. My mother is an Orhtodox Jew and yes she is not thrilled with my beliefs but she still loves me and has a strong connection to me, that is what I do care about.
(3) You cannot sit in judegement of me because you are not capable of it, only God is. I have never tried to convert anyone to believe as I do, not even my children (who are Jewish and probably older than you). I never will try to convert others, as that is not my responsibility (it is Gods and only his). I am not even a Christian evangelist, I don't have the talent. However I do try and spread his (the Lord's) gospel whenever the opportunity arises.

So please try to refrain from classifying me as someone whom you have met and know personally. I am not a member of any Jews for Jesus group, nor do I think that there is anything wrong with them. They feel called to do what they do by the Lord. I don't agree with anyone who tries to push or intimidate others to believe as they do, that is wrong and I don't believe God calls on us to do that.

Yes I do believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God. Six years ago I would have scoffed at someone like me as you do, but obviously I have changed.

I am Jewish by birth, I will remain a Jew for life. I now also believe that Jesus died for our sins and has risen after death to join the Father. You don't agree with that, ok I can respect that, I once believed as you do. What I don't respect is how you judge and label me for something "devious"! Sounds like what the Nazis did to the Jews in WW2......think about it!

By the way you never did answer my questions....

Mariner and Giants Fan · 09-06-2002, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by atomheart
Organized religion is so senseless.

What's the point of an arguement concerning ideals and opinions?

In a perfect world, that answer would be "to enlighten and learn from each other." but here, and everywhere else, it's to prove a point. To say, "My religion is better that yours."

Believe me, it's better being agnostic. The outsiders view is much more refreshing, without the bias and tunnel-vision. That way, I learn about things outside my realm, and could possibly concieve another point of view.

I'm not picking on anyone at all, just stating an opinion.

I really don't mean to offend. Perhaps it's the coffee.

Believe it or not I agree with your statement about religions being senseless...they confuse more then assist ppl to believe in God. That is my opinion anyway. I view my faith as a life decision not a religious one. In most religions you have to "earn" your way to heaven...way to difficult and I don't believe God intended the Ten Commandments to be the weeding out process that others think they are.

Hmm you are an agnostic, so by definition you chose not to believe in God, becuase it can not be proved to you that he exists thereby admitting he may exist, interesting.

The outsider view is more refreshing?? What realm are you referring to? An alien one? This comment is a nonsequitar??

atomheart · 09-06-2002, 04:17 AM

By the "outside view" I mean a view of a person not commited to a religion, or an idea.

In the very essence of things, no one has a clue, so we've created religion over the period of generations and centuries, but we use them as a crutch.

If I had a "creed" of any kind, I guess it would be the golden rule.

CMH · 09-06-2002, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by atomheart

If I had a "creed" of any kind, I guess it would be the golden rule.

as it should be.

it doesnt matter who or what you believe in. EVERY religion AND moral individual agrees on the same thing.

"Treat others as you would like to be treated"

It all comes down to that.

There is no need to argue religion, faith, and beliefs. They are our own. I thank anyone who has defended their beliefs and faith. That is whats asked of us. But since its the year 2002 and by now we should realize that as time goes by, more people are losing interest in organized religion and a set faith, we must learn how to cater to those differences.

Practice what you practice. Do what you do. Believe in what you want and choose to believe. But always remember to "Treat others as you would like to be treated" and you would have done much more than needed of you.

God (for those Christians here) said to spread the Word. What better way to spread the word than to show others how to treat every one with respect. The Golden Rule. Its the most important.

Remember God said (not in these exact words), "Love one another as I have loved you."

He never asked to love Him back. Does that mean he doesnt want any love? No, i'm not sayin that. What it does mean is that loving, forgiving, etc. others the way God has done for us is the most important thing God wants from every individual.

Do that and the rest will come naturally.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 09-06-2002, 10:36 AM

Not bad YankeePride....are you really a Yankees Fan?!..LOL! I may have to change my opinion of Yankee Fans....lol!

CMH · 09-06-2002, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mariner and Giants Fan
Not bad YankeePride....are you really a Yankees Fan?!..LOL! I may have to change my opinion of Yankee Fans....lol!

born and raised in the north bronx.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 09-06-2002, 11:56 AM

My Mom is from the Bronx , though I'll wager she was born there a few years before you

GForce22 · 09-06-2002, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

I wonder if you will still only have faith in yourself as you lay upon your death bed.....I do hope not because that would truly be sad....

Hardly. What will be sad is if you have based your entire life on this piece of fiction, and in the end there is nothing that awaits you. That will be a disappointing time for you, and I pity you for that.
As for me, I will have kept my faith as I have it today, in myself, my family and my friends. That makes me live life beholden to reality, not fiction...real people who matter, not a farcical imaginary puppetmaster. Because I have lived life with such joy with those who mean the most to me, I will have made the most of it, rather than waiting for things to be better once the make-believe savior comes for me. That is far from sad...it's a beautiful life. I'm sorry yours isn't and won't be as such.

GH

09-06-2002, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22

Hardly. What will be sad is if you have based your entire life on this piece of fiction, and in the end there is nothing that awaits you. That will be a disappointing time for you, and I pity you for that.
As for me, I will have kept my faith as I have it today, in myself, my family and my friends. That makes me live life beholden to reality, not fiction...real people who matter, not a farcical imaginary puppetmaster. Because I have lived life with such joy with those who mean the most to me, I will have made the most of it, rather than waiting for things to be better once the make-believe savior comes for me. That is far from sad...it's a beautiful life. I'm sorry yours isn't and won't be as such.

GH

Well said - I couldn't agree more.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 09-06-2002, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22

Hardly. What will be sad is if you have based your entire life on this piece of fiction, and in the end there is nothing that awaits you. That will be a disappointing time for you, and I pity you for that.
As for me, I will have kept my faith as I have it today, in myself, my family and my friends. That makes me live life beholden to reality, not fiction...real people who matter, not a farcical imaginary puppetmaster. Because I have lived life with such joy with those who mean the most to me, I will have made the most of it, rather than waiting for things to be better once the make-believe savior comes for me. That is far from sad...it's a beautiful life. I'm sorry yours isn't and won't be as such.

GH

You misunderstand my faith, I am not waiting for things to get better, that is not the purpose of my faith. I have many happy and joyful times in the past and today. I have the most wonderful and beautiful wife a man could ask for. The best job I have ever hoped for. I am not waiting to be with God to have a great time, that is what you are failing to grasp.

It is difficult to explain it to you because you cannot even understand the love and joy that I feel from knowing and having a relationship with Christ, with God. It has taken me 46 years to understand jut the tip of this. So you can call it fiction if that makes you feel better. You say your faith is in yourself, your family and friends. What happens when those friends deceive you? When your family turns from you (it can happen), or you from them. Then you have only faith in yourself, pretty lonely I think. Having a relationship with God is forever!

Man is fallable, God is not. God's love is enduring no matter what we do! Man's is not.

So you say it's sad that when I die there will be nothing for me after that? Why? Would I know anything? So you see even if in the end you were right, which I believe you are not, I would not be any worse off then you. So what have I or any other person got to lose by having this tremendous faith in a loving Creator? Only good can come out of my faith. On the flip side look at what you have to lose..eternal life in love and joy!

So I ask you this, why are you so against my faith or against a belief in God? Please don't go into the lack of self stuff again, I have a very good self image and lots of confidence as do many Christians. What is the real reason for your dare I say it fear?

twins15 · 09-06-2002, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22

That is far from sad...it's a beautiful life. I'm sorry yours isn't and won't be as such.

GH

Why would you say your life is better because you don't believe in God? You don't know him, so you realy don't know how his life is. But hey, I guess if that's what you believe.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 09-06-2002, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twins15

Why would you say your life is better because you don't believe in God? You don't know him, so you realy don't know how his life is. But hey, I guess if that's what you believe.

Maybe he needs to believe that to justify his position. I sometimes this people don't want to believe in God because they don't want to be held accountable by Him. It is not always easy having to answer to God as you know, but at least his grace is boundless, thank the heavens

09-05-2002, 09:24 PM	#181
SoxWin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Blissful ignorance Posts: 3,315	He'd probably smite us heathens down from his spot in the heavens. Cheers Rich __________________ It's called partying. When you do a lot of it, you're bound to be places where the police show up. I smoke a lot of pot and drink a lot of beer. I also graduated Suma Cum Laude. ****ing sue me. - Luis Rivera

09-06-2002, 10:36 AM	#193
Mariner and Giants Fan All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Port Townsend, WA. Posts: 1,264	Not bad YankeePride....are you really a Yankees Fan?!..LOL! I may have to change my opinion of Yankee Fans....lol! __________________ Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

09-06-2002, 11:56 AM	#195
Mariner and Giants Fan All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Port Townsend, WA. Posts: 1,264	My Mom is from the Bronx , though I'll wager she was born there a few years before you __________________ Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

09-06-2002, 01:16 AM	#187
atomheart Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 454	Organized religion is so senseless. What's the point of an arguement concerning ideals and opinions? In a perfect world, that answer would be "to enlighten and learn from each other." but here, and everywhere else, it's to prove a point. To say, "My religion is better that yours." Believe me, it's better being agnostic. The outsiders view is much more refreshing, without the bias and tunnel-vision. That way, I learn about things outside my realm, and could possibly concieve another point of view. I'm not picking on anyone at all, just stating an opinion. I really don't mean to offend. Perhaps it's the coffee.

09-06-2002, 04:17 AM	#191
atomheart Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 454	By the "outside view" I mean a view of a person not commited to a religion, or an idea. In the very essence of things, no one has a clue, so we've created religion over the period of generations and centuries, but we use them as a crutch. If I had a "creed" of any kind, I guess it would be the golden rule.