My thoughts on the state of MLB

Markus Heinsohn · 08-19-2002, 04:32 PM

OK, I think we should open this forum with a sad story, the current state of MLB.

There have been many things said about the absolute chaos in the MLB right now. Here are my 2 cents:

This is just one huge joke... a very bad one actually...

Human beings that earn millions argue about how to divide billions properly while other human beings
are happy if they earn enough in order to feed their family.

I am sick of it.

Dwolfson20 · 08-19-2002, 04:35 PM

I agree. I side with the players in this but I still think they're being pretty stupid. Be thankful for what you've got.

rwmorey · 08-19-2002, 04:37 PM

You've said it!

It's hard to understand though -- on the one hand, you figure that everyone playing in the MLB wants to win a World Series ring, right? So why don't they agree, as a union, to some kind of reforms that provide competitive balance and gives everyone a better shot at actually winning a ring? But when you hear them talk sometimes, its like all they are really worried about is making as much money as they can.. Which in and of itself is okay, but once you get past a certrain point -- how much is enough? $2 million a year? $3 milllion?? But then thats where egos come in -- well, if player x makes $5 million then I'm worth $7 million. These guys are so full of themselves.. its ridiculous.

That's my $.02!

Rich

fluharty · 08-19-2002, 04:44 PM

Lets send all of them over to live in Palestine for a few months- the players, coaches, owners- all of them. Maybe they'll be thankful for what the've got when they get back, maybe they'll have a little better perspective on the whole situation.

edm · 08-19-2002, 05:10 PM

I can't agree more Markus, it's enough to turn ones stomach. And at the same time MLB baseball could care less if those fans who are just getting by enough to feed their families and put a roof over their head has to spend $100 bucks just to take their family to one game.

I'm at the point where I HOPE these guys do go out on strike, I love the game and all, and was crushed in '94, but this time I hope they go out, and stay out until the game is fixed. And by fixed I mean nothing less than a salary cap. It doesn't have to be a hard cap, in fact I'd rather it not as we've seen in the NFL this causes a whole new array of problems, but a soft cap where teams may go over to sigh their own players is just fine. There also needs to be a REAL steroid drug testing policy, not the joke of a policy put forth by the MLBPA last week. If this takes 1 year, 2 years, or even 3 years, so be it, we'll all find other things to do until the fools in baseball get their act together. But then, and only then might I feel the same about baseball as I did before 1994.

At least this time around we'll have ootp to get our baseball fix. I only wish I had it back in 94'

Irrelevant Dude · 08-19-2002, 05:16 PM

Similar to what someone else said, I'm surprised that certain players on small-market teams don't agree with the owners in some respect. If these players do exist, I guess the MLB union is strong enough to keep them silenced and maintain a unified appearance. On one hand I would like to see the owners hold out for as long as is necessary to break the union, but I don't know what I would do without baseball for an entire season or more. OOTP is great, but I still need the real thing too...

vtbub · 08-19-2002, 05:20 PM

I think that a cap would be a bad idea. Baseball needs a salary floor. Teams must spend the National TV money and 90% of the gate on talent.

Encourage teams to keep the talent they develop. The Yankees overspent for years before they were a playoff regular. They have the nucleus that they build around.

Force owners to like baseball and put baseball people in higher management positions. Also get rid of franchises that haven't caught on and shrink the talent pool.

edm · 08-19-2002, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Juckett
I think that a cap would be a bad idea. Baseball needs a salary floor.

I agree 100% that with a cap there aslo needs to be salary floor. Say 45-50M dollar floor, with a 90-100M cap. No way should an owner be able to take money from another franchise and put it into their pockets, it has to go to player signings only.

Big Train · 08-19-2002, 06:25 PM

For one thing I think some players on small market teams do agree with the luxury tax, and I'm sure many of the players and owners don't want a strike, Fehr and Selig don't really speak for all or even a majority of the people they claim to represent.

The sad irony of this whole situation is that they're arguing over money that won't even exist if they go on strike or if some competitive balance isn't restored. There's no question that if there's a strike attenence will be way down, even worse than in 95 and that will drive salaries down. There needs to be some neutral commisioner who really represents the game and can arbitrate this, but of course that isn't going to happen, I don't persoally think they will strike. I think they will reach some watered down compromise that will do very little to restore competiveness, I agree there needs to be both a floor and a cap but both sides are just too short sighted to be able to reach any meaningful agreement.

Malleus Dei · 08-19-2002, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
OK, I think we should open this forum with a sad story, the current state of MLB.

There have been many things said about the absolute chaos in the MLB right now. Here are my 2 cents:

This is just one huge joke... a very bad one actually...

Human beings that earn millions argue about how to divide billions properly while other human beings
are happy if they earn enough in order to feed their family.

I am sick of it.

Sad but true. They should all be ashamed.

Carplos · 08-19-2002, 09:45 PM

The players shouldn't have to just get on their knees for the owners either.

Carplos · 08-19-2002, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fluharty
Lets send all of them over to live in Palestine for a few months- the players, coaches, owners- all of them. Maybe they'll be thankful for what the've got when they get back, maybe they'll have a little better perspective on the whole situation.

They wouldn't get back. Sharon would "accidentally" kill them all, while trying to get to the ACTUAL terrorists.

Vida Blue · 08-19-2002, 10:50 PM

What the owners and players seem to forget is that without fan support they have nothing but a child's game. EVERYBODY turn your head and...don't watch!

Malleus Dei · 08-19-2002, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carplos
The players shouldn't have to just get on their knees for the owners either.

Why not? Almost everyone else in the world who works for powerful moneyed interests has to.

Dwolfson20 · 08-20-2002, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carplos

They wouldn't get back. Sharon would "accidentally" kill them all, while trying to get to the ACTUAL terrorists.

Hey, let's stick to the baseball and keep the political insults elsewhere.

LeeJay56 · 08-20-2002, 02:27 AM

Bring up the MINOR leaugers!!!!

[WWBL]Batboy · 08-20-2002, 02:50 AM

I 2nd that!!

Carplos · 08-20-2002, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwolfson20
Hey, let's stick to the baseball and keep the political insults elsewhere.

Hey, someone else suggested what we should do. I just explained what the result would be.

andy m · 08-20-2002, 06:35 AM

players and owners have always been greedy, it's just now that the press covers it more actively and takes a blatant stance on it.

holyroller · 08-20-2002, 06:38 AM

It's funny that the very same people who are proponents of free market capitalism are in favor of socialism for baseball. Which is it folks?

08-19-2002, 04:32 PM	#1
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	My thoughts on the state of MLB OK, I think we should open this forum with a sad story, the current state of MLB. There have been many things said about the absolute chaos in the MLB right now. Here are my 2 cents: This is just one huge joke... a very bad one actually... Human beings that earn millions argue about how to divide billions properly while other human beings are happy if they earn enough in order to feed their family. I am sick of it.

08-19-2002, 04:35 PM	#2
Dwolfson20 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not St. Louis Posts: 2,872	I agree. I side with the players in this but I still think they're being pretty stupid. Be thankful for what you've got. __________________

08-19-2002, 10:50 PM	#13
Vida Blue Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Greater Reich of Ontario Posts: 324	What the owners and players seem to forget is that without fan support they have nothing but a child's game. EVERYBODY turn your head and...don't watch! __________________ "The only way I'm going to get a Gold Glove is with a can of spray paint." - Reggie Jackson

08-20-2002, 06:35 AM	#19
andy m Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: UK Posts: 183	players and owners have always been greedy, it's just now that the press covers it more actively and takes a blatant stance on it. __________________

08-20-2002, 06:38 AM	#20
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	It's funny that the very same people who are proponents of free market capitalism are in favor of socialism for baseball. Which is it folks? __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.” Last edited by holyroller; 08-20-2002 at 06:41 AM.

08-19-2002, 04:37 PM	#3
rwmorey Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 177	You've said it! It's hard to understand though -- on the one hand, you figure that everyone playing in the MLB wants to win a World Series ring, right? So why don't they agree, as a union, to some kind of reforms that provide competitive balance and gives everyone a better shot at actually winning a ring? But when you hear them talk sometimes, its like all they are really worried about is making as much money as they can.. Which in and of itself is okay, but once you get past a certrain point -- how much is enough? $2 million a year? $3 milllion?? But then thats where egos come in -- well, if player x makes $5 million then I'm worth $7 million. These guys are so full of themselves.. its ridiculous. That's my $.02! Rich

08-19-2002, 04:44 PM	#4
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	Lets send all of them over to live in Palestine for a few months- the players, coaches, owners- all of them. Maybe they'll be thankful for what the've got when they get back, maybe they'll have a little better perspective on the whole situation.

08-19-2002, 05:10 PM	#5
edm All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,999	I can't agree more Markus, it's enough to turn ones stomach. And at the same time MLB baseball could care less if those fans who are just getting by enough to feed their families and put a roof over their head has to spend $100 bucks just to take their family to one game. I'm at the point where I HOPE these guys do go out on strike, I love the game and all, and was crushed in '94, but this time I hope they go out, and stay out until the game is fixed. And by fixed I mean nothing less than a salary cap. It doesn't have to be a hard cap, in fact I'd rather it not as we've seen in the NFL this causes a whole new array of problems, but a soft cap where teams may go over to sigh their own players is just fine. There also needs to be a REAL steroid drug testing policy, not the joke of a policy put forth by the MLBPA last week. If this takes 1 year, 2 years, or even 3 years, so be it, we'll all find other things to do until the fools in baseball get their act together. But then, and only then might I feel the same about baseball as I did before 1994. At least this time around we'll have ootp to get our baseball fix. I only wish I had it back in 94'

08-19-2002, 05:16 PM	#6
Irrelevant Dude Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bourbonnais, IL Posts: 278	Similar to what someone else said, I'm surprised that certain players on small-market teams don't agree with the owners in some respect. If these players do exist, I guess the MLB union is strong enough to keep them silenced and maintain a unified appearance. On one hand I would like to see the owners hold out for as long as is necessary to break the union, but I don't know what I would do without baseball for an entire season or more. OOTP is great, but I still need the real thing too...

08-19-2002, 05:20 PM	#7
vtbub Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Burlington, VT Posts: 143	I think that a cap would be a bad idea. Baseball needs a salary floor. Teams must spend the National TV money and 90% of the gate on talent. Encourage teams to keep the talent they develop. The Yankees overspent for years before they were a playoff regular. They have the nucleus that they build around. Force owners to like baseball and put baseball people in higher management positions. Also get rid of franchises that haven't caught on and shrink the talent pool.

08-19-2002, 06:25 PM	#9
Big Train Major Leagues Join Date: May 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 402	For one thing I think some players on small market teams do agree with the luxury tax, and I'm sure many of the players and owners don't want a strike, Fehr and Selig don't really speak for all or even a majority of the people they claim to represent. The sad irony of this whole situation is that they're arguing over money that won't even exist if they go on strike or if some competitive balance isn't restored. There's no question that if there's a strike attenence will be way down, even worse than in 95 and that will drive salaries down. There needs to be some neutral commisioner who really represents the game and can arbitrate this, but of course that isn't going to happen, I don't persoally think they will strike. I think they will reach some watered down compromise that will do very little to restore competiveness, I agree there needs to be both a floor and a cap but both sides are just too short sighted to be able to reach any meaningful agreement.

08-19-2002, 09:45 PM	#11
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,901 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	The players shouldn't have to just get on their knees for the owners either.

08-20-2002, 02:27 AM	#16
LeeJay56 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valencia, CA Posts: 23	Bring up the MINOR leaugers!!!!

08-20-2002, 02:50 AM	#17
[WWBL]Batboy Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 485	I 2nd that!!