Days off in Stickware Scheduler

endgame · 12-13-2004, 08:04 AM

Is there anyway or setting that can modify Stickware-produced schedules to include the no-more-than 20 days of games and off (or any variation of that) rule? I think that's the MLB standard, but I'm not sure.

The only method I can see at this point is to manually review every schedule and re-schedule those games into double-headers in order to provide options for what must be considered sufficient rest periods. Is that the rationale for the rule, if it exists, and is this the only method Stickware has of providing for modification?

Thanks in advance.

gmo · 12-13-2004, 01:18 PM

As awesome as the Stickware program is, it has its limitations. It will give teams stretches of more than 20 consecutive days with games, and I know of no way to systematically keep it from doing that. I'm not sure, but I think the programs just generally goes by the current MLB average of about 2 offdays per 3 weeks. That still allows streaks to occasionally crop up longer than 20 days.

That number is something I believe the Players' Union got some years back since it used to be teams could go for even a couple of weeks more than that without an offday. Le Grande Orange is the schedule expert though. I'm just a technician. But as such, may I ask the configuration and setup for which you are making your schedule? I'm always looking to add to this thread - http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=63714 - if what you want is not already there and it is possible you or somebody else might use it.

endgame · 12-13-2004, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmo

But as such, may I ask the configuration and setup for which you are making your schedule? I'm always looking to add to this thread - http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=63714 - if what you want is not already there and it is possible you or somebody else might use it.

I did see multiple entries for 162 game season, 16 teams, 2 leagues, 2 divisions each league (4 per division). I guess I'm curious about a couple of issues:

I'm certainly no schedule guru - although I've come to believe as LGO puts it I think, "proper schedules matter." I'm just not sure how exactly to make them matter more or most to me.

I'm game for just about any schedule just so long as it changes enough year to year to offer variation. (How do those posted afford change from year to year, or is a new one simply requested?)

And I suppose it would seem there should be enough consistency in those changes so as not to produce wild swings in championship winners. Or am I wrong to think that over the course of a few years, in a combined 16 team league, maybe 4 of those teams would ultimately compete consistently each year for championships while the others would usually fall somewhere in the candidate/wildcard/longshot categories?

As I write this, it's evident I'm looking for some schedule advice, pointers, or suggestions about how to incorporate it meaningfully into my solo world. I'm open to your ideas, and thanks for your interest.

Le Grande Orange · 12-13-2004, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Is there anyway or setting that can modify Stickware-produced schedules to include the no-more-than 20 days of games and off (or any variation of that) rule?

As gmo noted, no, there is no way to have Stickware generate schedules which respect this particular scheduling element.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmo

That number is something I believe the Players' Union got some years back since it used to be teams could go for even a couple of weeks more than that without an offday.

Yes, a number of scheduling provisions are actually written into the CBA between the players' union and the owners, with the 20 days rule being one of them. It should be noted however that this can be exceeded by special waiver if the team requests it and the players on the team agree to it. But on the originally created schedules, teams are not supposed to be scheduled for more than 20 days of play in a row.

Based on the original schedule statistics, this rule seems to have come into effect starting with the 1977 season. In the years prior, the original schedules often had cases where teams were slated for long stretches of play. In 1975, three teams had an instance of 41 consecutive days of play in the original schedule; in 1976 Boston had a stretch of 34 days in a row of play while Detroit and Pittsburgh were scheduled for 28 straight days of play. But in 1977, no team had more than 20 consecutive days of play scheduled, and that has been the maximum every year since.

The longest stretch of play called for in an original schedule was 60 days in a row for Detroit in 1931; the second longest was 56 days in a row for St. Louis in 1968; and third place is 50 straight days of play for Cincinnati in 1926. Fortunately for all these teams, I think the weather in all cases ended up providing a few unscheduled off days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

I'm certainly no schedule guru - although I've come to believe as LGO puts it I think, "proper schedules matter."

Heh heh heh, and the cult grows by one more member...

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

I'm game for just about any schedule just so long as it changes enough year to year to offer variation. (How do those posted afford change from year to year, or is a new one simply requested?)

In terms of opponents matchups, OOTP automatically juggles things year-to-year by swapping teams around in the schedule slots based on the position of finish. This is a good way of changing things up every year, except that it can result in odd-looking road trips.

If you mean the format of the schedule, as in how many times a team is supposed to play each of its opponents, unless you generate a new schedule or import a new one that will remain the same each year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

As I write this, it's evident I'm looking for some schedule advice, pointers, or suggestions about how to incorporate it meaningfully into my solo world.

In terms of creating fictional schedules, gmo is pretty much the king at the moment. He's got a system which works very well for him to pump out a variety of schedule possibilities.

I'm spending far too much time fiddling with the historical major and minor league schedules to even really attempt any fictional schedule creation. But then, in many cases real-world schedules may well fit the bill, so my efforts might still be useful.

The one thing I would mention is whether you feel the league you have is an alternate major league, or if it is intended to be more of a minor league type of league. There has historically been quite a difference between major and minor league schedules, which is that the minors play out their seasons in considerably less time than have the majors.

For example, in 1953, MLB played a 154 game season, as did the minor league International League, American Association, Texas League, Eastern League, Southern Association, and Western League. But the amount of time each ran their seasons was, respectively: 168 days, 145 days, 152 days, 152 days, 140 days, 151 days, and 149 days. As you can see, the minors played their schedules anywhere from 16-28 days quicker than their major league counterparts. This difference was pretty standard for quite a long time.

Another factor common in minor league schedules is the use of longer series to cut down on the number of trips needed to each city in the circuit, to reduce associated travel costs. The PCL is the most notable, with 7-game, week-long series.

These two features are the ones which differ the greatest between major and minor league schedules. So they're something to keep in mind when you design a schedule, if you're looking for that added level of detail...

gmo · 12-14-2004, 02:30 AM

LGO covered much of the ground, but I'll try to add a little bit.

Indeed the season-to-season juggling adds a nice bit of variety with the same base schedule. Unless it was something like Sox-Yanks or LA-SF with the division title on the line every time to end the season, it would get old playing the exact same teams at the exact same times every year. But in the game where you are playing divisional, interdivision, or interleague games you will always be playing those types of games, just likely against different teams.

I'm not sure what you are getting at about the variety in championship winners. I've been playing (mostly simming quickly) a 12-team league much of this year, and you are right that you will tend to have over a period of just a few years a limited number of teams regularly being the leading contenders. But if a league is brand-new off a fantasy draft the teams are usually very evenly matched for a couple years, and the more teams in a league the more possible winners. The schedule should not play a big role in that as within divisions the different teams will most likely play the same other teams at least almost the same number of times. Maybe you are thinking of something I am not grasping, but I never really think of the schedule (as long as it is decent) really affecting competitive balance.

16 teams (2 league, 2 divisions, 4 teams) playing 162 games is very straightforward if that is what you want. Unless something otherwise is requested, I try to follow current MLB standards in my schedule construction, at least the rules of no more than 20 days in a row with games for any team, no homestands or roadtrips over 14 games, and the All-Star Break 1-2 weeks after the mid-point of the season. If that is good, then what might you like in a schedule?

How about interleague play? If so, how much? There's lots of possibilities. Maybe have each team play one series home and one away against each team in the other league. That's maybe quite a bit, so perhaps less suchas one series against each of the 8 teams of the other league or the two series but against just one of the divisions of the other league. Or maybe make it very rare with only one series against the 4 teams of one division of the other league.

A balanced schedule playing each non-divisional opponent as many times as each divisional opponent or unbalanced playing the divisional opponents more? And if unbalanced, how unbalanced - a lot more games against the other teams in the division or just a little more?

Interleague or not and balanced or unbalanced can set the tone to your league if you have a preference. Personally, in leagues I track closely and control a team I like to have interleague where each team plays home and away at least a short series against everybody, if the league is small enough to make that reasonable. I also like what I consider moderately unbalanced with games per division opponent outnumbering games per non-divisional league opponent by a ratio of something like 2:1 or 3:2. On the other hand I think many other people prefer not having interleague, and I think LGO tends to prefer in general a little stronger unbalanced schedules.

Sometimes people make requests and already have the number of games against each opponent worked out, and sometimes they give at most rough guidelines and I find something usually along the lines of my own preferences where the numbers work out.

But besides just how many games, maybe you want them set out a certain way, like having the last few weeks mostly if not all division games so the races might be more exciting assuming you get some head-to-head matchups between contending teams. I think most everybody likes that, and I try to do it in general.

People usually do not get too exact in their requests and there are limits to how exact specifications can be with me still being able to meet them. Still, if you would like something it would not hurt to ask, especially with a 16-team setup where things are much easier to layout than when there are odd factors to the number of teams. Basically whatever you can think you might like as far as the schedule goes, feel free to make a request (as specific or vague as you want) and we'll see if we can't get you hooked up.

endgame · 12-14-2004, 08:48 AM

Thanks so much for the generous responses. You've given me much to think about and I certainly will see if an existing format meets my inclinations -whenever I decide what those are-

or if a custom arrangement might be in order. I'm nearing the end of August in my first year controlling a team (I play out all of my team's games) after I'd simmed about 5-6 years to develop histories. I took a team that had only finished 2nd in their division once as their best achievement. Now that the organizational tendencies and "personalities" have started to surface, it may guide me toward what schedule may best serve to address, enhance, or balance those elements.

Again, thanks ever so much for your ongoing contributions.

12-13-2004, 08:04 AM	#1
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Days off in Stickware Scheduler Is there anyway or setting that can modify Stickware-produced schedules to include the no-more-than 20 days of games and off (or any variation of that) rule? I think that's the MLB standard, but I'm not sure. The only method I can see at this point is to manually review every schedule and re-schedule those games into double-headers in order to provide options for what must be considered sufficient rest periods. Is that the rationale for the rule, if it exists, and is this the only method Stickware has of providing for modification? Thanks in advance.

12-13-2004, 01:18 PM	#2
gmo Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 3,419	As awesome as the Stickware program is, it has its limitations. It will give teams stretches of more than 20 consecutive days with games, and I know of no way to systematically keep it from doing that. I'm not sure, but I think the programs just generally goes by the current MLB average of about 2 offdays per 3 weeks. That still allows streaks to occasionally crop up longer than 20 days. That number is something I believe the Players' Union got some years back since it used to be teams could go for even a couple of weeks more than that without an offday. Le Grande Orange is the schedule expert though. I'm just a technician. But as such, may I ask the configuration and setup for which you are making your schedule? I'm always looking to add to this thread - http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=63714 - if what you want is not already there and it is possible you or somebody else might use it.

12-14-2004, 02:30 AM	#5
gmo Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 3,419	LGO covered much of the ground, but I'll try to add a little bit. Indeed the season-to-season juggling adds a nice bit of variety with the same base schedule. Unless it was something like Sox-Yanks or LA-SF with the division title on the line every time to end the season, it would get old playing the exact same teams at the exact same times every year. But in the game where you are playing divisional, interdivision, or interleague games you will always be playing those types of games, just likely against different teams. I'm not sure what you are getting at about the variety in championship winners. I've been playing (mostly simming quickly) a 12-team league much of this year, and you are right that you will tend to have over a period of just a few years a limited number of teams regularly being the leading contenders. But if a league is brand-new off a fantasy draft the teams are usually very evenly matched for a couple years, and the more teams in a league the more possible winners. The schedule should not play a big role in that as within divisions the different teams will most likely play the same other teams at least almost the same number of times. Maybe you are thinking of something I am not grasping, but I never really think of the schedule (as long as it is decent) really affecting competitive balance. 16 teams (2 league, 2 divisions, 4 teams) playing 162 games is very straightforward if that is what you want. Unless something otherwise is requested, I try to follow current MLB standards in my schedule construction, at least the rules of no more than 20 days in a row with games for any team, no homestands or roadtrips over 14 games, and the All-Star Break 1-2 weeks after the mid-point of the season. If that is good, then what might you like in a schedule? How about interleague play? If so, how much? There's lots of possibilities. Maybe have each team play one series home and one away against each team in the other league. That's maybe quite a bit, so perhaps less suchas one series against each of the 8 teams of the other league or the two series but against just one of the divisions of the other league. Or maybe make it very rare with only one series against the 4 teams of one division of the other league. A balanced schedule playing each non-divisional opponent as many times as each divisional opponent or unbalanced playing the divisional opponents more? And if unbalanced, how unbalanced - a lot more games against the other teams in the division or just a little more? Interleague or not and balanced or unbalanced can set the tone to your league if you have a preference. Personally, in leagues I track closely and control a team I like to have interleague where each team plays home and away at least a short series against everybody, if the league is small enough to make that reasonable. I also like what I consider moderately unbalanced with games per division opponent outnumbering games per non-divisional league opponent by a ratio of something like 2:1 or 3:2. On the other hand I think many other people prefer not having interleague, and I think LGO tends to prefer in general a little stronger unbalanced schedules. Sometimes people make requests and already have the number of games against each opponent worked out, and sometimes they give at most rough guidelines and I find something usually along the lines of my own preferences where the numbers work out. But besides just how many games, maybe you want them set out a certain way, like having the last few weeks mostly if not all division games so the races might be more exciting assuming you get some head-to-head matchups between contending teams. I think most everybody likes that, and I try to do it in general. People usually do not get too exact in their requests and there are limits to how exact specifications can be with me still being able to meet them. Still, if you would like something it would not hurt to ask, especially with a 16-team setup where things are much easier to layout than when there are odd factors to the number of teams. Basically whatever you can think you might like as far as the schedule goes, feel free to make a request (as specific or vague as you want) and we'll see if we can't get you hooked up.

12-14-2004, 08:48 AM	#6
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Thanks so much for the generous responses. You've given me much to think about and I certainly will see if an existing format meets my inclinations -whenever I decide what those are- or if a custom arrangement might be in order. I'm nearing the end of August in my first year controlling a team (I play out all of my team's games) after I'd simmed about 5-6 years to develop histories. I took a team that had only finished 2nd in their division once as their best achievement. Now that the organizational tendencies and "personalities" have started to surface, it may guide me toward what schedule may best serve to address, enhance, or balance those elements. Again, thanks ever so much for your ongoing contributions.