It's not a sport

[BravesSince66]

Major League Baseball as a sport is dead and has been dead at least since the 1994 strike. The latest "revelation" of what many of us knew - that the players (not the ball) are juiced - is neither surprising nor does it do any damage to industry. The trash that is major league baseball drew bigger crowds last year than ever before. It didn't draw many "fans" though. It drew "consumers." Because it ain't a sport...it's just another form of entertainment - like a movie or a concert.

The business of baseball will recover from this just like it always has. Because, deep down, the business has a monopoly on a very special commodity. Just like a major Ford recall or the Firestone tire controversy can't kill the American affinity for driving.

Personally, I find the sport still exists in the minor leagues and that's where I spend my money. I haven't been to a major league game in several years. My sole interest in the major league level is the same as part of my interest in OOTP....watching young players develop and make it to the Show. Then rooting for them once they make it. My baseball heros now are not Bonds or Jeter or Maddux. They are guys like Johnny Estrada and Adam LaRoche - who may or may not have used steroids. Others, who probably haven't yet, are still in the minors like Dan Meyer, Jose Capellan, Jeff Francoeur, Kyle Davies, etc. Most of 'em won't make it to the Show. Some will. All them are 100% athletes though and full of a very tangible competitive spirit that is at the heart of the game (or the commodity in the entertainment world).

But, as far as me being a "fan of baseball", that's only as real as my latest OOTP sim. The game exists only in my head. The business, unfortunately, is not subject to the whims of imagination or memory.

[Luis_Rivera]

I'm confused... what do you mean by "not a sport?"

In other words... what makes a sport?

Edit: Man... the LSATs really got to me... I read his post and the first thing that popped into my head was "What is wrong with this argument? He did not make clear his definition of a sport"

[canadiancreed]

die hard fans that arent jaded by corproate greed and cheating to win and treating the loyal fan as nothing more than a walking ATM machine?

that's just my guess.

and reminds me of the g/f when she complains about funding for cheerleading programs, how its' not viewed as a sport(seems to take mroe effort than some)

[phillies05]

Dan Meyer went to my high school. He was my best-friend's brother's friend.

My friend played paint-ball with Meyer, and Meyer stole his paint balls.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by phillies05

My friend played paint-ball with Meyer, and Meyer stole his paint balls.

sounds painful

[JDOldSchool]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

and reminds me of the g/f when she complains about funding for cheerleading programs, how its' not viewed as a sport(seems to take mroe effort than some)

I don't see how it can be a sport. It might be athletic. It might be a competition. But it's not a sport when a bunch of judges give a subjective opinion on who wins.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

I don't see how it can be a sport. It might be athletic. It might be a competition. But it's not a sport when a bunch of judges give a subjective opinion on who wins.

That would eliminate half the sports in the Olympics

hmm....

maybe your on to something

[Luis_Rivera]

Dictionary definition of sport: An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

Definitely encompasses cheerleading.... which I never thought of as a sport... interesting.

It seems like sport has become a very subjective term though. Something to think about I guess.

However, I will never agree to calling NASCAR a sport.

[canadiancreed]

On that we can both agree

I used to be able to watch it wen i was a kid, but for some reason it was more intresting

now it's jsut forty guys going round n a circle.......boooo ring. Not even any accidents anymore. I get mroe accidents on my morning commute

and i'll ahve to pass that statement along, the g/f will be extremely thrilled

[BravesSince66]

To clarify....

Major League Baseball is more a corporate entertainment enterprise than a sport. Everything business-related is the most important aspect of MLB to MLB. Athletics ain't it. Fans are treated as consumers and, therefore, by definition, are not really fans because the sport is minimized in favor of virtually every corporate concern.

Two examples:

During the John Rocker controversy several years ago Braves GM John Schuerholz responded to questions by referring to Rocker as "someone who wears our company uniform." COMPANY not "team." This is not a slip of the tongue. It is an actual pervasive mindset that has evolved over the last couple of decades.

And this from the excellent Bob Costas book "Fair Ball":

"During the 1998 season, the defending world champion Florida Marlins, languishing in last place with a skeleton of their '97 squad, finally made another move, dealing Bobby Bonillia, Charles Johnson, and Todd Zeile to the Los Angeles Dodgers. Florida's clubhouse had become a ghost town by this point, and Bonilla, Johnson, and Zeile had just been dealt to a big-market club with tradition and a gorgeous ballpark, and one that was desperately trying to stay in a pennant race. So when Bonillia was informed that he'd been traded to the Dodgers, his first reaction was to ask reporters, "Is there a state income tax in California?"

This is what Major League Baseball actually is. Probably more than 60% of MLB players use perfromance (as in entertainment) enhancing drugs not to be better athletes. That is the antithesis of being an athlete. They use them to increase their dollar value. Period.

It ain't a sport and hasn't been, as I said, since at least 1994.

[Skipaway]

Then all pro leagues and college football/basketball aren't sports either?

And it's not just from 1994, it's from the very very very start of the pro league.

[rem]

I don't the think this is the best place to make the agrument that Baseball is dead.

[canadiancreed]

Not the game itself at least

The MLB....well.....that reminds to be seen. I'm sure they'll find people to keep the seats warm, but the Q is, once the team stops winning, will they come back at keep paying

the answer: no

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by BravesSince66

To clarify....

Major League Baseball is more a corporate entertainment enterprise than a sport. Everything business-related is the most important aspect of MLB to MLB. Athletics ain't it. Fans are treated as consumers and, therefore, by definition, are not really fans because the sport is minimized in favor of virtually every corporate concern.

Two examples:

During the John Rocker controversy several years ago Braves GM John Schuerholz responded to questions by referring to Rocker as "someone who wears our company uniform." COMPANY not "team." This is not a slip of the tongue. It is an actual pervasive mindset that has evolved over the last couple of decades.

And this from the excellent Bob Costas book "Fair Ball":

"During the 1998 season, the defending world champion Florida Marlins, languishing in last place with a skeleton of their '97 squad, finally made another move, dealing Bobby Bonillia, Charles Johnson, and Todd Zeile to the Los Angeles Dodgers. Florida's clubhouse had become a ghost town by this point, and Bonilla, Johnson, and Zeile had just been dealt to a big-market club with tradition and a gorgeous ballpark, and one that was desperately trying to stay in a pennant race. So when Bonillia was informed that he'd been traded to the Dodgers, his first reaction was to ask reporters, "Is there a state income tax in California?"

This is what Major League Baseball actually is. Probably more than 60% of MLB players use perfromance (as in entertainment) enhancing drugs not to be better athletes. That is the antithesis of being an athlete. They use them to increase their dollar value. Period.

It ain't a sport and hasn't been, as I said, since at least 1994.

Too cynical.

[UngratefulDead]

Originally Posted by BravesSince66

To clarify....

Major League Baseball is more a corporate entertainment enterprise than a sport. Everything business-related is the most important aspect of MLB to MLB. Athletics ain't it. Fans are treated as consumers and, therefore, by definition, are not really fans because the sport is minimized in favor of virtually every corporate concern.

Two examples:

During the John Rocker controversy several years ago Braves GM John Schuerholz responded to questions by referring to Rocker as "someone who wears our company uniform." COMPANY not "team." This is not a slip of the tongue. It is an actual pervasive mindset that has evolved over the last couple of decades.

And this from the excellent Bob Costas book "Fair Ball":

"During the 1998 season, the defending world champion Florida Marlins, languishing in last place with a skeleton of their '97 squad, finally made another move, dealing Bobby Bonillia, Charles Johnson, and Todd Zeile to the Los Angeles Dodgers. Florida's clubhouse had become a ghost town by this point, and Bonilla, Johnson, and Zeile had just been dealt to a big-market club with tradition and a gorgeous ballpark, and one that was desperately trying to stay in a pennant race. So when Bonillia was informed that he'd been traded to the Dodgers, his first reaction was to ask reporters, "Is there a state income tax in California?"

This is what Major League Baseball actually is. Probably more than 60% of MLB players use perfromance (as in entertainment) enhancing drugs not to be better athletes. That is the antithesis of being an athlete. They use them to increase their dollar value. Period.

It ain't a sport and hasn't been, as I said, since at least 1994.

nah, don't like that.

[swampdragon]

There's some truth there, but not enough. Baseball is a sport, but it's also the livelihood of the players, coaches, and front office personnel. If these people are concerned about the money they make, they're no different from the rest of us. Alot of the players are spoiled brats and many owners are greedy SOBs who don't try to win, but there's still a sport going on between the lines.

[Skipaway]

I think BravesSince66 is actually missing the good old baseball slavery days, when the owners got to keep most of the profit, and the players are paid so little with no bargaining power against the owners whatsoever.

[JDOldSchool]

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Dictionary definition of sport: An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

I don't entirely agree, but at least this eliminates chess (which I really enjoy) and spelling bees as sport.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

I think BravesSince66 is actually missing the good old baseball slavery days, when the owners got to keep most of the profit, and the players are paid so little with no bargaining power against the owners whatsoever.

It's intresting to note the following

Back in the as you put it, slavery days of baseball, the owners made all the moeny, and the players were "screwed" if i recall ballplayers still made more than most of the populace. While this isnt the issue here, it's jsut somethign to consider.

anyways, now the owners still get paid, the players get paid, so who is getting screwed now?

LOok in the mirror, you'll see one of many. I know I see it when I used to ook in the mirror

[phenom]

How are fans getting screwed?

By buying tickets to games?

Don't go if you're so indignant.