All-Time Roster Project

GForce22 · 08-12-2002, 03:45 PM

Hey all,

Back to a real topic instead of this other nonsense.

As a bunch of you know, I ran an all-time 25-man roster thread a couple of weeks ago. I ran the same thread in each team's message board at MLB.com. I also ran it on the rec.sport.baseball message board. This led to a LOT of responses. I have been compiling rosters based on those and am getting near the stage where I could start processing ratings and such for each franchise.

My goal is to have 40-man rosters for each team, excluding the last 4 expansion teams. Right now there are 26 teams. I would like to have 28, 2 leagues, two seven team divisions. I would not do a wild card for this league.

For the added two teams, I have 4 options to fill the two slots.
a) A negro league all-star team
b) a combination of the 4 expansion teams (anonymous ghost gave a starting 25 for that squad in that thread.
c) A team of players not named on those other rosters (be it guys whose careers were cut short, were omitted from the roster (or get bumped when cuts are down to 40)
d) A team of movie ball players (I know someone had been doing a patch of this, maybe for High Heat, but not sure if they put it together or if it had enough guys. A stretch, and not something I'm necessarily crazy about, but I want to get it to 28 teams.

If A is not the most popular choice (perhaps because it would essentially be an all-star team and may be too good, and because stats are so hard to come by for ratings purposes), I would then let the bottom 14 teams have a 3 round draft of negro league players and add them to their rosters (teams like the Padres, Expos, etc. can use some help getting to 40).

Two notes:
1) It is still not a guarantee this will get done. I'm still in the "process" stage right now
2) The patch with Rolen is priority. I sent a spreadsheet file to Pierre but it got bounced back from all 3 addresses, so I need to hear back from him and see where I can send it so he can get it.

I will keep any information about this possible project in this thread. There is NO timeline for this project. It's whenever I can get it done (we saw how well the last timeline worked out

GH

GForce22 · 08-12-2002, 04:01 PM

Here are the roster tallies based on responses (again, one team per player)

Angels -39
A's -54
Astros -35
Blue Jays -40
Braves -45
Brewers -33
Cardinals -42
Cubs -40
Dodgers -51
Expos -33
Giants -42
Indians -29
Mariners -25
Mets -40
Negro Lg -43
Orioles -43
Padres -27
Phillies -35
Pirates -46
Rangers -35
Red Sox -54
Reds -45
Royals -50 (SHOCKED there were this many)
Tigers -39
Twins -63!!!!!! (great board on MLB.com)
White Sox -32
Yankees -45
Expansion -25

GH

spleen1015 · 08-12-2002, 04:03 PM

Man, you've put a lot of work into this already and you don't know if you're going to see it through. Crazy comes to mind

GForce22 · 08-12-2002, 04:09 PM

well, really all I've done is compile rosters from other people's feedback and check for duplicates. I haven't entered any data yet. Long way to go

GH

Kevin Koss · 08-12-2002, 04:17 PM

This Looks like one heck of a project if you need any help let me know, and I look forward to seeing your finished project, if you finish it.

SoxWin · 08-12-2002, 05:19 PM

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but wouldn't you be best off finishing one project before starting the next?

Cheers

Rich

GForce22 · 08-12-2002, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoxWin
I don't want to be a wet blanket, but wouldn't you be best off finishing one project before starting the next?

Cheers

Rich

"2) The patch with Rolen is priority. I sent a spreadsheet file to Pierre but it got bounced back from all 3 addresses, so I need to hear back from him and see where I can send it so he can get it."

GH

Andy · 08-12-2002, 05:39 PM

So you say the All Time Rosters will be out next week? Great! Can't wait!

Seriously, if you do it, I would definately use it, if not, then fine.

GForce22 · 08-12-2002, 05:51 PM

yeah...next week...piece of cake

I really want to do this because it may be the last project I'm able to do. Once the kid(s) (wife expecting, may be twins) are here next year, taking time for roster work will be pretty much a thing of the past.

GH

LivnLegend · 08-12-2002, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22
yeah...next week...piece of cake

Once the kid(s) (wife expecting, may be twins) are here

A bit off topic from your thread title but what do you mean, "may" be having twins? Waiting for a good 2 for 1 special?

My wife and I knew in the first two months she was having twins. Modern medical equipment has made many strides from the days of our grandparents where someone didn't know they were having twins until a second baby started to emerge.

If you are having twins, good for you. I highly recommend it! Mine just turned 3 and it has been a blast since day 1.

GForce22 · 08-12-2002, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LivnLegend

A bit off topic from your thread title but what do you mean, "may" be having twins? Waiting for a good 2 for 1 special?

LOL!! No. We JUST found out (like a week and a half ago). She's a nurse at a high risk OB office so they've done bloodwork and certain levels correspond with the likelihood of twins. But we're not sure until the sonogram Saturday.

GH

GForce22 · 08-13-2002, 05:23 PM

OK, so doing the hitting ratings, I want to set the league up to be like 80's baseball. So what I have done is written a spreadsheet program with the averages for each decade of the 10's through the 90's. A player's career will be compared vs the decade he played most during/had best years during. The idea being that a player will be whatever degree above/below the average of the 80's than he was vs his contemporaries. This at least gives some sense of comparison across generations.

Well, Babe Ruth, to give you an idea of why he's the greatest home run hitter of all time (despite Bonds and others talking about Aaron): the degree to which Babe Ruth homered vs those he played against in the 20's would have yielded 111 HOMERS had he played vs players in the 80's.

Ridiculous.

GH

fluharty · 08-13-2002, 05:56 PM

GForce
I dont know a lot about baseball history, so I'm not sure whether there ARE any of these, but how about guys from no-longer-existing teams? Teams that were contracted, I mean, not moved and renamed.

Maybe make up both of the remaining two teams from the negro leagues. Not sure how to divide them up tho, and as you said, putting the ratings together would be tough.

GForce22 · 08-13-2002, 06:01 PM

Interesting idea. Just not sure how many of those kind of guys would, if they were good, not have gone onto other teams. I could be wrong, but it sounds like a team that would have a lot of bad players.

The two negro league teams idea is interesting, but it would mean finding info on 80 negro league guys. Any ideas?

GH

fluharty · 08-13-2002, 07:18 PM

http://www.tresclub.com/downloads/downloads.htm
7th link down. I've not downloaded it. Its somewhere to start, maybe...

JimServo · 08-13-2002, 10:35 PM

Bill James put out an all-time top ten in every position for the Negro Leagues (except pitcher) with a little info on each player in the group for his book The New Bill James Historical Abstract. Unfortunately, their is nothing in regards to a system of listing all of their batting/throwing arms. Many of the players do though, and many have some basic statistics and information (such as mentioning if a player walked alot) for batters, I would be glad to type a list of available information up for you.

GForce22 · 08-13-2002, 10:36 PM

Jim,

Thank you VERY much for the offer. If you could do that it would be great. Please take your time...they would be the last team(s) I would be entering anyway and even that stage is a way off. But thank you for doing this.

GH

GForce22 · 08-14-2002, 10:22 AM

The plan for ages in this league is to take 36 - ((rookie year-1900)/4.5). The lowest age I'll allow is 17. By virtue of doing 40 guys a roster, I wanted to make sure that all of these guys would have an opportunity to play at some point. So older teams like the Yankees and Giants will have a lot of veterans as well as some younger guys, while younger franchises will have a lot more younger guys. This will make interesting trade cases. Do the Yankees trade an aging Babe Ruth for a young Vladimir Guerrero? Do Astros trade young guys like Bagwell and Biggio for a veteran pitcher like Bob Feller. If I had made everyone 20 years old it seems like there would be no dynamic as far as trades, call-ups, the like. This way will keep older players in the game and productive for a few years, but have the prime of the league focus on more recent players.

Age examples:
Ty Cobb: 35
Babe Ruth: 33
Ted Williams: 27
Hank Aaron: 24
George Brett: 20
Alex Rodriguez: 17 (rounded up from 15)

GH

YoungEagle · 08-14-2002, 11:10 AM

I put together some rosters that were similar to this, but I used the age the player was when they had the best year in their career. Just a thought.

y2kornhusker · 08-14-2002, 12:33 PM

Quote:

a) A negro league all-star team
b) a combination of the 4 expansion teams (anonymous ghost gave a starting 25 for that squad in that thread.
c) A team of players not named on those other rosters (be it guys whose careers were cut short, were omitted from the roster (or get bumped when cuts are down to 40)
d) A team of movie ball players (I know someone had been doing a patch of this, maybe for High Heat, but not sure if they put it together or if it had enough guys. A stretch, and not something I'm necessarily crazy about, but I want to get it to 28 teams.

If I had to pick two I'd go for B and C. Whatever you decide, though. If someone doesn't like how the teams are aligned, they can change it.

08-12-2002, 03:45 PM	#1
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	All-Time Roster Project Hey all, Back to a real topic instead of this other nonsense. As a bunch of you know, I ran an all-time 25-man roster thread a couple of weeks ago. I ran the same thread in each team's message board at MLB.com. I also ran it on the rec.sport.baseball message board. This led to a LOT of responses. I have been compiling rosters based on those and am getting near the stage where I could start processing ratings and such for each franchise. My goal is to have 40-man rosters for each team, excluding the last 4 expansion teams. Right now there are 26 teams. I would like to have 28, 2 leagues, two seven team divisions. I would not do a wild card for this league. For the added two teams, I have 4 options to fill the two slots. a) A negro league all-star team b) a combination of the 4 expansion teams (anonymous ghost gave a starting 25 for that squad in that thread. c) A team of players not named on those other rosters (be it guys whose careers were cut short, were omitted from the roster (or get bumped when cuts are down to 40) d) A team of movie ball players (I know someone had been doing a patch of this, maybe for High Heat, but not sure if they put it together or if it had enough guys. A stretch, and not something I'm necessarily crazy about, but I want to get it to 28 teams. If A is not the most popular choice (perhaps because it would essentially be an all-star team and may be too good, and because stats are so hard to come by for ratings purposes), I would then let the bottom 14 teams have a 3 round draft of negro league players and add them to their rosters (teams like the Padres, Expos, etc. can use some help getting to 40). Two notes: 1) It is still not a guarantee this will get done. I'm still in the "process" stage right now 2) The patch with Rolen is priority. I sent a spreadsheet file to Pierre but it got bounced back from all 3 addresses, so I need to hear back from him and see where I can send it so he can get it. I will keep any information about this possible project in this thread. There is NO timeline for this project. It's whenever I can get it done (we saw how well the last timeline worked out GH

08-12-2002, 05:19 PM	#6
SoxWin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Blissful ignorance Posts: 3,315	I don't want to be a wet blanket, but wouldn't you be best off finishing one project before starting the next? Cheers Rich __________________ It's called partying. When you do a lot of it, you're bound to be places where the police show up. I smoke a lot of pot and drink a lot of beer. I also graduated Suma Cum Laude. ****ing sue me. - Luis Rivera

08-13-2002, 10:35 PM	#16
JimServo Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Near Philadelphia, PA Posts: 418	Bill James put out an all-time top ten in every position for the Negro Leagues (except pitcher) with a little info on each player in the group for his book The New Bill James Historical Abstract. Unfortunately, their is nothing in regards to a system of listing all of their batting/throwing arms. Many of the players do though, and many have some basic statistics and information (such as mentioning if a player walked alot) for batters, I would be glad to type a list of available information up for you. __________________ "When I was a small boy in Kansas, a friend of mine and I went fishing and as we sat there in the warmth of the summer afternoon on a river bank, we talked about what we wanted to do when we grew up. I told him that I wanted to be a real major league baseball player, a genuine professional like Honus Wagner. My friend said that he'd like to be President of the United States. Neither of us got our wish." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

08-12-2002, 04:01 PM	#2
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	Here are the roster tallies based on responses (again, one team per player) Angels -39 A's -54 Astros -35 Blue Jays -40 Braves -45 Brewers -33 Cardinals -42 Cubs -40 Dodgers -51 Expos -33 Giants -42 Indians -29 Mariners -25 Mets -40 Negro Lg -43 Orioles -43 Padres -27 Phillies -35 Pirates -46 Rangers -35 Red Sox -54 Reds -45 Royals -50 (SHOCKED there were this many) Tigers -39 Twins -63!!!!!! (great board on MLB.com) White Sox -32 Yankees -45 Expansion -25 GH

08-12-2002, 04:03 PM	#3
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,008	Man, you've put a lot of work into this already and you don't know if you're going to see it through. Crazy comes to mind

08-12-2002, 04:09 PM	#4
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	well, really all I've done is compile rosters from other people's feedback and check for duplicates. I haven't entered any data yet. Long way to go GH

08-12-2002, 04:17 PM	#5
Kevin Koss Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 52	This Looks like one heck of a project if you need any help let me know, and I look forward to seeing your finished project, if you finish it.

08-12-2002, 05:39 PM	#8
Andy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 2,270	So you say the All Time Rosters will be out next week? Great! Can't wait! Seriously, if you do it, I would definately use it, if not, then fine.

08-12-2002, 05:51 PM	#9
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	yeah...next week...piece of cake I really want to do this because it may be the last project I'm able to do. Once the kid(s) (wife expecting, may be twins) are here next year, taking time for roster work will be pretty much a thing of the past. GH

08-13-2002, 05:23 PM	#12
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	OK, so doing the hitting ratings, I want to set the league up to be like 80's baseball. So what I have done is written a spreadsheet program with the averages for each decade of the 10's through the 90's. A player's career will be compared vs the decade he played most during/had best years during. The idea being that a player will be whatever degree above/below the average of the 80's than he was vs his contemporaries. This at least gives some sense of comparison across generations. Well, Babe Ruth, to give you an idea of why he's the greatest home run hitter of all time (despite Bonds and others talking about Aaron): the degree to which Babe Ruth homered vs those he played against in the 20's would have yielded 111 HOMERS had he played vs players in the 80's. Ridiculous. GH

08-13-2002, 05:56 PM	#13
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	GForce I dont know a lot about baseball history, so I'm not sure whether there ARE any of these, but how about guys from no-longer-existing teams? Teams that were contracted, I mean, not moved and renamed. Maybe make up both of the remaining two teams from the negro leagues. Not sure how to divide them up tho, and as you said, putting the ratings together would be tough.

08-13-2002, 06:01 PM	#14
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	Interesting idea. Just not sure how many of those kind of guys would, if they were good, not have gone onto other teams. I could be wrong, but it sounds like a team that would have a lot of bad players. The two negro league teams idea is interesting, but it would mean finding info on 80 negro league guys. Any ideas? GH

08-13-2002, 07:18 PM	#15
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	http://www.tresclub.com/downloads/downloads.htm 7th link down. I've not downloaded it. Its somewhere to start, maybe...

08-13-2002, 10:36 PM	#17
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	Jim, Thank you VERY much for the offer. If you could do that it would be great. Please take your time...they would be the last team(s) I would be entering anyway and even that stage is a way off. But thank you for doing this. GH

08-14-2002, 10:22 AM	#18
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	The plan for ages in this league is to take 36 - ((rookie year-1900)/4.5). The lowest age I'll allow is 17. By virtue of doing 40 guys a roster, I wanted to make sure that all of these guys would have an opportunity to play at some point. So older teams like the Yankees and Giants will have a lot of veterans as well as some younger guys, while younger franchises will have a lot more younger guys. This will make interesting trade cases. Do the Yankees trade an aging Babe Ruth for a young Vladimir Guerrero? Do Astros trade young guys like Bagwell and Biggio for a veteran pitcher like Bob Feller. If I had made everyone 20 years old it seems like there would be no dynamic as far as trades, call-ups, the like. This way will keep older players in the game and productive for a few years, but have the prime of the league focus on more recent players. Age examples: Ty Cobb: 35 Babe Ruth: 33 Ted Williams: 27 Hank Aaron: 24 George Brett: 20 Alex Rodriguez: 17 (rounded up from 15) GH

08-14-2002, 11:10 AM	#19
YoungEagle Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Wayne, MI Posts: 364	I put together some rosters that were similar to this, but I used the age the player was when they had the best year in their career. Just a thought.