The best player to ever play a sport? - Page 3

ctorg · 10-25-2004, 09:28 AM

dola,

Maybe if someone could come up with some kind of cross-sport Win Shares thingie, but I doubt anyone could. I find it expecially difficult to compare team sports and individual sports.

KurtBevacqua · 10-25-2004, 10:40 AM

Team Sport - Jordan in a squeaker over Gretzky. Gretzky had the more dominant stats, but Jordan was better at winning titles, which is the overall objective of team sports.

Individual Sport - In a single event, Mark Spitz for winning 7 golds in one Olympics.
For a career, toss-up between Lance Armstrong, Martina Navritalova, Jack Nicklaus, Al Oerter (gold medals in 4 straight Olympics) and Edwin Moses. I can think of no objective way to evaluate them so I list them all as equally great.

LeiterFanatic · 10-25-2004, 12:04 PM

Richard Petty

No one ever dominated their sport like he did and more or less created the modern sport as it is today. Earnhardt gets more hype today but Richard in the 60s and 70's was dominating.

GoldenGlove · 10-25-2004, 12:33 PM

Barry Sanders

ctorg · 10-25-2004, 12:50 PM

Perhaps Derek Jeter would be a good choice. Or maybe Bo Jackson, since he played two sports, upping his value.

andjbock · 10-25-2004, 12:52 PM

Don Gay - Bull Riding

GForce · 10-25-2004, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

Richard Petty

No one ever dominated their sport like he did and more or less created the modern sport as it is today. Earnhardt gets more hype today but Richard in the 60s and 70's was dominating.

Auto racing is not a sport!!!!

GH

jaxmagicman · 10-25-2004, 01:01 PM

If we are going with Peak value, would Tiger Woods be considered, since his peak value was so much more than that of some of the other Golfers?

Third and Long · 10-25-2004, 01:08 PM

Time for a poll.

rudel.dietrich · 10-25-2004, 02:59 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills

That may help

Alpha · 10-25-2004, 03:20 PM

I'd probably have to say football legend Pelé. No-one influenced more players in his era, and seeing as the sport is the most widely-played, I think he has to have an edge over competitors in the North American sports.

jaxmagicman · 10-25-2004, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha

I'd probably have to say football legend Pelé. No-one influenced more players in his era, and seeing as the sport is the most widely-played, I think he has to have an edge over competitors in the North American sports.

Silly Alpha, Pele didn't play footbal, he played soccer. And I would think someone from England would know that.

billycola · 10-25-2004, 08:23 PM

The point of sports is winning so maybe it's Bill Russell and his 11 rings?

Long_Long_Name · 10-25-2004, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delgadodawg

Although he did play a bit with Messier and Anderson, they were rarely on his line. It was always Kurri and someone else..

Well, it still has some impact (having two lines to counter for the opponent's defensive line, whatever). Anyway, I still think that Lemieux is better

.

Greatness, in my opinion, can be measured only by peak value. What is the best? It's the gighest point, it's the summit, it's doing something better than anyone else. That's peak value. I'm not saying that I'd rather have someone that has a 1.800 OPS on my team for one year than one with 1.000 for ten years, but I'm saying that in the true meaning of "best", there's nobody that's ever been as good as the 1.800 guy.

Long_Long_Name · 10-25-2004, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billycola

The point of sports is winning so maybe it's Bill Russell and his 11 rings?

I won in little leagues 14 times, does that count?

The point of sport is not winning, it's trying to win, it's competing.

Henri Richard with his 11 Stanley Cups. Certainly better than his brother

.

Oh, and who the hell is Bill Russell?

jaxmagicman · 10-25-2004, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

I won in little leagues 14 times, does that count?

The point of sport is not winning, it's trying to win, it's competing.

Henri Richard with his 11 Stanley Cups. Certainly better than his brother

.

Oh, and who the hell is Bill Russell?

Funny, my question would have been, Who is Henri Richard?

SoxWin · 10-25-2004, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

Well, it still has some impact (having two lines to counter for the opponent's defensive line, whatever). Anyway, I still think that Lemieux is better

.

Greatness, in my opinion, can be measured only by peak value. What is the best? It's the gighest point, it's the summit, it's doing something better than anyone else. That's peak value. I'm not saying that I'd rather have someone that has a 1.800 OPS on my team for one year than one with 1.000 for ten years, but I'm saying that in the true meaning of "best", there's nobody that's ever been as good as the 1.800 guy.

Gretzky's peak was higher then Lemieux's, how on Earth is Mario better? Not only was the peak higher, it was longer to boot.

GForce · 10-25-2004, 10:29 PM

I find it interesting a few people in this thread have brought up winning titles and rings as a means to judge an individual player, given that when we evaluate baseball players in this forum, generally, the group here dismisses rings as a relevant factor.

GH

Long_Long_Name · 10-25-2004, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxWin

Gretzky's peak was higher then Lemieux's, how on Earth is Mario better? Not only was the peak higher, it was longer to boot.

Here's where we disagree. I think Mario's peak was better. 199 points in 76 games with a team whose other best attackers are Rob Brown, Dan Quinn, Bob Errey and John Cullen, that's remarkable.

GForce · 10-25-2004, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

Henri Richard with his 11 Stanley Cups. Certainly better than his brother

.

Who knows what J.R. could've done without the stroke

GH

10-25-2004, 09:28 AM	#41
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	dola, Maybe if someone could come up with some kind of cross-sport Win Shares thingie, but I doubt anyone could. I find it expecially difficult to compare team sports and individual sports. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-25-2004, 10:40 AM	#42
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	Team Sport - Jordan in a squeaker over Gretzky. Gretzky had the more dominant stats, but Jordan was better at winning titles, which is the overall objective of team sports. Individual Sport - In a single event, Mark Spitz for winning 7 golds in one Olympics. For a career, toss-up between Lance Armstrong, Martina Navritalova, Jack Nicklaus, Al Oerter (gold medals in 4 straight Olympics) and Edwin Moses. I can think of no objective way to evaluate them so I list them all as equally great. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner

10-25-2004, 12:04 PM	#43
LeiterFanatic All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 1,348	Richard Petty No one ever dominated their sport like he did and more or less created the modern sport as it is today. Earnhardt gets more hype today but Richard in the 60s and 70's was dominating. Last edited by LeiterFanatic; 10-25-2004 at 12:05 PM.

10-25-2004, 12:33 PM	#44
GoldenGlove Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 339	Barry Sanders __________________ ISBL - New York Yankees B.I.G. - Oakland Athletics TheMLB - Cleveland Indians

10-25-2004, 12:50 PM	#45
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Perhaps Derek Jeter would be a good choice. Or maybe Bo Jackson, since he played two sports, upping his value. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-25-2004, 12:52 PM	#46
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,637	Don Gay - Bull Riding

10-25-2004, 01:01 PM	#48
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	If we are going with Peak value, would Tiger Woods be considered, since his peak value was so much more than that of some of the other Golfers? __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

10-25-2004, 01:08 PM	#49
Third and Long Minors (Single A) Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 99	Time for a poll. __________________ No copy written hotlinks were invovled in the making of this sig.

10-25-2004, 02:59 PM	#50
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/sportSkills That may help

10-25-2004, 03:20 PM	#51
Alpha Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: England Posts: 30	I'd probably have to say football legend Pelé. No-one influenced more players in his era, and seeing as the sport is the most widely-played, I think he has to have an edge over competitors in the North American sports. __________________ "The Germans are such a cruel and inhuman race, they have no word for fluffy." - Blackadder Goes Forth

10-25-2004, 08:23 PM	#53
billycola Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CA Posts: 171	The point of sports is winning so maybe it's Bill Russell and his 11 rings? __________________ Bill Heckel Jr. NARBL-NL President/Pittsburgh Pirates (1977-90) 1985 NARBL Champs 1979, '83-84, '90 Wild Card 1981-82, '85-87 AL East Champs CIBA Houston Astros (1970-71) 1970 CIBA Champs CDL-AL Prez/Boston Red Sox (1969-01) 1973, '84, '00 AL Pennant 1971, '73, '76, '84-89, '98-00 AL East Champs NAHHBL-NL Prez/Chicago Cubs (1980-99) 1995 NL Pennant 1994-98 NL Central Champs UBL Boston Red Sox (1934-36) 1934-35 FL East Champs 1935 FL Pennant WLB Bogota Guerrillas (2014-15)

10-25-2004, 10:29 PM	#58
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	I find it interesting a few people in this thread have brought up winning titles and rings as a means to judge an individual player, given that when we evaluate baseball players in this forum, generally, the group here dismisses rings as a relevant factor. GH Last edited by GForce; 10-25-2004 at 10:31 PM.