AI Trades Part III

JeffWard · 10-25-2004, 05:42 PM

To Markus, Steve etc...

One of the really great aspects of the games is trading.

As the trading deadline approached in my fictional league the Cubs got all kinds of offers from the AI teams. Good thing! However, the offers were all abysmal. Bad thing!

In one trade the AI offered a 2 star left fielder and wanted a 4 star prospect, a 3 star prospect and 2.4 million!

In reviewing the League Trading Block, with the trade difficulty set to normal, for a 3 star outfielder the AI wanted my 5 star 20-2 #1 starter. The fact that the outfielder was on the block should mean the team was willing to realistically deal for him.

As the season is moving to September, some of the battered AI teams should be willing to get young and dump salary much like the Rockies sending Larry Walker to the Cards for a minor league pitcher 2 ptbnl. This is not the case as the AI teams seem to dump salary by using wavers and get nothing in return for good players!

If this aspect of the game could be 'punched up' it would really be nice.

Jeff

cknox0723 · 10-25-2004, 05:57 PM

I think this aspect is spot-on, personally, and I know that seems odd, so I'll explain why.

The translation between OOTP's finances and the real MLB isn't seamless -- they're close, but they're not the same. But the AI seems to act rationally, for the most part -- as you said, using waivers as a vehicle to dump salary.

And they'll trade guys, too, but wouldn't it be a bit too easy if the AI teams made offers that were, well, ones you'd consider? My opinion is that it would be -- what's the fun of a trade if you don't have to hammer it out? Anyhow, you can make your salary dumps -- if you look long enough, in my experience.

Always a fun topic to discuss, so hopefully some people smarter than I will come along with more.

JeffWard · 10-25-2004, 06:11 PM

As for the 2 4 star players the AI dumped via waivers, I would have gladly entertained the possibility of a trade.

The AI could have dumped salary AND received something in return.

And remember, when the AI proposes a trade it can't be modified.
Jeff

daveyk · 10-25-2004, 06:38 PM

True, it can't be modified and that would be a nice feature.

That said, if they make an offer for a player you are interested in dumping, or offer a player you would like to get, you can always open the trade window yourself and see if there's a deal to be made.

Their first offer just gets the discussion started.

markprior22 · 10-25-2004, 07:49 PM

I hope this changes in the next version. It would be nice if a "negotiate" button was available that would take you to the normal trade screen and let you try to hammer out a deal. I've run into situations where I've tried to recreate deals (offered to me by the AI) in the normal trade screen and the computer won't accept.

fluharty · 10-25-2004, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markprior22

I hope this changes in the next version. It would be nice if a "negotiate" button was available that would take you to the normal trade screen and let you try to hammer out a deal. I've run into situations where I've tried to recreate deals (offered to me by the AI) in the normal trade screen and the computer won't accept.

yes!

daveyk · 10-26-2004, 03:28 PM

Agree that would be nice and simple. I'd like to see somethign even more elaborate to make trading a lot more like dealing than placing weights on a scale.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=83252

Dan Theman · 10-26-2004, 08:41 PM

I think Jeff has brought up some excellent points. I'm not sure if this can be tightened up in the current version or not, but at least I hope it will be better with v.7

Ktulu · 10-26-2004, 10:42 PM

Before the trade AI is looked at you need to start with the AI in general. Currently the AI has no plan or idea of what it is trying to accomplish(other than trying to address positional weaknesses).

This is of course where Dan's campaign for a GM comes in. Until the AI has some kind of reasonable goal, working on the trade AI is rather pointless.

jbmagic · 10-27-2004, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ktulu

Before the trade AI is looked at you need to start with the AI in general. Currently the AI has no plan or idea of what it is trying to accomplish(other than trying to address positional weaknesses).

This is of course where Dan's campaign for a GM comes in. Until the AI has some kind of reasonable goal, working on the trade AI is rather pointless.

i hear puresim does it...

hopefully one day ootp will too...

jouiskc · 10-27-2004, 02:45 PM

I agree with the comment that the AI needs to "develop" a strategy before making moves. For example, time and time again I have seen where the AI will deem that a team needs a outfielder. So instead of accelerating the promotion of a highly rated outfield prospect, it will trade that very same prospect(or another prospect, of another position) for a career utility/minor league players who have more service time. Often, the AI then waives or trades that very same player, thus ending up with no outfielder and no prospect. I completely understand that this will never be perfect, and I have modified all of the necessary modifiers in the engine, but with all of the stats/ratings available to the AI, you would think it would make better decisions.

Only my opinion. Still love the game.

JO

ctorg · 10-27-2004, 03:42 PM

If the AI wants to dump players, it should do so in the same order as a human player: first try to trade him, then put him on waivers, then release. It's important to try to get as much as you can for a player, and the AI would be much more competitive if it did.

In future releases, I think it would also be good to tie trading strategies to the team's position in the standings.

10-26-2004, 10:42 PM	#9
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,506	Before the trade AI is looked at you need to start with the AI in general. Currently the AI has no plan or idea of what it is trying to accomplish(other than trying to address positional weaknesses). This is of course where Dan's campaign for a GM comes in. Until the AI has some kind of reasonable goal, working on the trade AI is rather pointless. __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!" Last edited by Ktulu; 10-26-2004 at 10:43 PM.

10-27-2004, 03:42 PM	#12
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	If the AI wants to dump players, it should do so in the same order as a human player: first try to trade him, then put him on waivers, then release. It's important to try to get as much as you can for a player, and the AI would be much more competitive if it did. In future releases, I think it would also be good to tie trading strategies to the team's position in the standings. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-25-2004, 05:42 PM	#1
JeffWard Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 107	AI Trades Part III To Markus, Steve etc... One of the really great aspects of the games is trading. As the trading deadline approached in my fictional league the Cubs got all kinds of offers from the AI teams. Good thing! However, the offers were all abysmal. Bad thing! In one trade the AI offered a 2 star left fielder and wanted a 4 star prospect, a 3 star prospect and 2.4 million! In reviewing the League Trading Block, with the trade difficulty set to normal, for a 3 star outfielder the AI wanted my 5 star 20-2 #1 starter. The fact that the outfielder was on the block should mean the team was willing to realistically deal for him. As the season is moving to September, some of the battered AI teams should be willing to get young and dump salary much like the Rockies sending Larry Walker to the Cards for a minor league pitcher 2 ptbnl. This is not the case as the AI teams seem to dump salary by using wavers and get nothing in return for good players! If this aspect of the game could be 'punched up' it would really be nice. Jeff

10-25-2004, 06:11 PM	#3
JeffWard Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 107	As for the 2 4 star players the AI dumped via waivers, I would have gladly entertained the possibility of a trade. The AI could have dumped salary AND received something in return. And remember, when the AI proposes a trade it can't be modified. Jeff

10-25-2004, 06:38 PM	#4
daveyk Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 24	True, it can't be modified and that would be a nice feature. That said, if they make an offer for a player you are interested in dumping, or offer a player you would like to get, you can always open the trade window yourself and see if there's a deal to be made. Their first offer just gets the discussion started.

10-25-2004, 07:49 PM	#5
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,235	I hope this changes in the next version. It would be nice if a "negotiate" button was available that would take you to the normal trade screen and let you try to hammer out a deal. I've run into situations where I've tried to recreate deals (offered to me by the AI) in the normal trade screen and the computer won't accept.

10-26-2004, 03:28 PM	#7
daveyk Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 24	Agree that would be nice and simple. I'd like to see somethign even more elaborate to make trading a lot more like dealing than placing weights on a scale. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=83252

10-27-2004, 02:45 PM	#11
jouiskc Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 16	I agree with the comment that the AI needs to "develop" a strategy before making moves. For example, time and time again I have seen where the AI will deem that a team needs a outfielder. So instead of accelerating the promotion of a highly rated outfield prospect, it will trade that very same prospect(or another prospect, of another position) for a career utility/minor league players who have more service time. Often, the AI then waives or trades that very same player, thus ending up with no outfielder and no prospect. I completely understand that this will never be perfect, and I have modified all of the necessary modifiers in the engine, but with all of the stats/ratings available to the AI, you would think it would make better decisions. Only my opinion. Still love the game. JO