Randomizing a database?

arod23 · 10-21-2004, 07:26 PM

I thought of a twist to normal "historical" league sims: using a full MLB database (Lahman, Ankit career or normalized, Garlon, All Time Greats, or any of the other great databases), randomly assigning debut/rookie years for each player. This way a draft can take place, say 1901, with a subset of players across all eras, the next year, the "amateur" draft would also contain a mix of players from all eras. As an example, the draft could contain Cobb, Bonds, Gibson in the same class.

There are several .lg files out there but almost all of them have all the players already imported (the league file is set up already), so there is no drafting after year one. No "real" rookies to import. I don't see any .csv files that have done anything like this. Releasing and redrafting in year two is not the same thing, not to mention that the free agents are aging/developing, so an entire database will eventually retire after 15 or so years.

Has anyone done this?

Several people like Ankit and Garlon have create databases of all time greats. They have not only taken the time to import these players, but have even modified ratings etc. A lot of good work. Is there a way to "back out" out of those .lg files in order to create a file to be used to import "real" rookies? It would be great to start with those files in a .csv format for importing.

Any help on this?

octones · 10-21-2004, 11:20 PM

Ha... are you reading my mind? I was just thinking about something like this the other day. Would be neat if I knew how to do it.

TotalEnd98 · 10-22-2004, 12:23 AM

I've seen one of these before, but I don't recall where it's hosted. Check the Dynasty Forums for, I think, the "Random Chaos League." By metsgeek, maybe?

arod23 · 10-22-2004, 10:14 AM

Thanks. I knew someone would be on top of this. As soon as I searched for "chaos" I got several links to similar leagues. However, none of the files are posted anymore and they looked like they were based on older databases only through 2001.

ctorg · 10-22-2004, 02:46 PM

I did this a few years ago. I was a bit unhappy with how unbalanced things were. Old time pitchers did much better than modern ones and modern batters killed the old timers. It might be better in OOTP6 (I think that was in OOTP4). I supposed I could have normalized (i.e. made the stats all work relative to a set era) the database, but that would have been a lot more work.

dfsteele · 10-22-2004, 03:03 PM

I haven't randomized a database, but I did condence one of Ankit's files so that I could use historical players with the current number of MLB teams. I found a file somewhere (I think that it was the Download Center, but cannot find it there) called something like BD3random generator (please excuse my inability to remember the exact details). I could not get the generator to work for me, but I was able to use the readme instructions to get it to work for me. I will try to attach the readme file.

I was not able to use steps 1 - 7 and instead made the adjustments to the debut year end birthdate in a new master file. Column E in the master file is the year of birth and column Z is the debut year. I used two empty columns for the new debut year and the new year of birth. The new year of birth is the new debut year minus the real life debut year plus the real life year of birth. Once you have the new dates calculated, copy and special paste the year of birth first otherwise you will mess up the calculations.

I would recommend the you copy whichever database you plan to randomize into a new folder before playing with it. I didn't the first time and had to download the database again.

Hope that this is what you were looking for.

JimiP · 10-22-2004, 05:13 PM

http://wtl.chefjimi.us/Wildthing%20B...Home/index.htm

WildThings Baseball has been in existence since the inaugural season of (randomly chosen) 1947. Currently just ended the 1952 season, we use a customised DataBase based on Ankits' Career DB. The length of this DB runs 50 years.
Players debut from any point in time, and are drafted in accordance with normal ammy rules.
This has been a successful, fun and always different league - excepting Bakersfield/Brooklyn winning title 3 of 4 years.
Currently 2 Leagues, 2 Divisions in each. Wildcard Playoffs (all 7 games), Salary Cap, No Rule 5 (arrgh it do blow), other stuff.....
All of this you can find by getting over to the link (above) and clicking on the links to the left of the HOME page.
Oh yeh BTW - we currently have 2 open teams - one was just put up. The other was vacant at season start - we chose not to fill it but to let the comp run it - and wil continue to do so unlesswe find a suitable owner.
Please c'mon over and check us out - if you thinkits a thing you wanna do - then sure enuf c'mon and jump with us. It's fun, competitive, but not life or death - sim 3 times weekly (T/T/S) and this is the perfect time to join as we are - as I said - just ending the 1952 season, and are about to switch over to 1953.

kingcharlesxii · 10-22-2004, 05:20 PM

Here's a file someone (I think it was SandMan) made using those random debut files:

http://files.simcentral.net/index/Detailed/3343.shtml

It says OOTP5 but I think it will work with 6.

SandMan · 10-23-2004, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Here's a file someone (I think it was SandMan) made using those random debut files:

http://files.simcentral.net/index/Detailed/3343.shtml

It says OOTP5 but I think it will work with 6.

Yes I did this and put out one version of this out at BASEBALLSIMCENTRAL, I still have all the access tables and it generally takes about 45 minutes to create the new database and CSV files....

I used bd3s random to generate the new birthdate, but his spreadsheet had problems with multiple records for a season (if a batter played for two teams this would count as 2 seasons, fielding records were a mess!!!). I basically took the new birthdate year subtracted it from his actual birthyear and used this number to subtract from ankits tables in access.... It sounds complicated but is not really if you are used to working with databases....there are a few other steps which I have queries created for (players with no birth days months, or years) Players with no years were set to age 23 at their rookie season..... I was happy with the results as long as I used the ERA settings sheet. Also make sure you use Ankit's Normalized database.

I would recommend downloading the current database, looking at the players in the tables to verify that they are indeed random. The database is set for 24 teams for 90 seasons before there are no more players..... rookie pool of about 130 each year (5 rounds). The tables are all converted back to the CSV files to import back into the game (lahman format) and no access tables are provided with the download. The download was just the output.

I was going to put out the actual queries and step by step instructions but then I would have been bombarded with questions about ACCESS and the files were HUGE, also I did not get a big response when I did this database last year.......

I hope this is what you are looking for.....And it works with OOTP6 also but does not include the players from 2003 or 2004 seasons since I used an older version of Ankits....

Regards,

Steve

SandMan · 10-23-2004, 01:03 PM

I was thinking about creating a fictional/historical database to use within the game. I would use the players in lahman and also enough fictional players to get a good mix each season.

How would I create the mix??? I would use the players in Ankits + I would need a few owners to send me their output files from either the export program for each season, or a copy of their catobase files. I would put these into an access table and then convert to the CSV files needed to import into the game. This would allow players to play upto 150-200 seasons instead of 80-90...... Some purist would not want historical and fictional mixed but I think that this is needed since using only historical players tends to put players into the minors and they cannot play as many major league seasons (this is due to the first season in the tables is their rookie year and not debut year in baseball). Just an idea anyone interested send me a message.....

I also like the idea of putting "YOUR" fictional players into a database, some or all of them, I still keep a list of my favorite players...

10-21-2004, 07:26 PM	#1
arod23 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 378	Randomizing a database? I thought of a twist to normal "historical" league sims: using a full MLB database (Lahman, Ankit career or normalized, Garlon, All Time Greats, or any of the other great databases), randomly assigning debut/rookie years for each player. This way a draft can take place, say 1901, with a subset of players across all eras, the next year, the "amateur" draft would also contain a mix of players from all eras. As an example, the draft could contain Cobb, Bonds, Gibson in the same class. There are several .lg files out there but almost all of them have all the players already imported (the league file is set up already), so there is no drafting after year one. No "real" rookies to import. I don't see any .csv files that have done anything like this. Releasing and redrafting in year two is not the same thing, not to mention that the free agents are aging/developing, so an entire database will eventually retire after 15 or so years. Has anyone done this? Several people like Ankit and Garlon have create databases of all time greats. They have not only taken the time to import these players, but have even modified ratings etc. A lot of good work. Is there a way to "back out" out of those .lg files in order to create a file to be used to import "real" rookies? It would be great to start with those files in a .csv format for importing. Any help on this?

10-21-2004, 11:20 PM	#2
octones Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 226	Ha... are you reading my mind? I was just thinking about something like this the other day. Would be neat if I knew how to do it. __________________

10-22-2004, 12:23 AM	#3
TotalEnd98 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New York Posts: 1,687	I've seen one of these before, but I don't recall where it's hosted. Check the Dynasty Forums for, I think, the "Random Chaos League." By metsgeek, maybe? __________________ OTBL - Scandinavia Cartoon Heroes This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper.

10-22-2004, 02:46 PM	#5
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I did this a few years ago. I was a bit unhappy with how unbalanced things were. Old time pitchers did much better than modern ones and modern batters killed the old timers. It might be better in OOTP6 (I think that was in OOTP4). I supposed I could have normalized (i.e. made the stats all work relative to a set era) the database, but that would have been a lot more work. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-22-2004, 05:13 PM	#7
JimiP Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lowcountry SC Posts: 226	Wildthings Baseball League - As Random as it Gets http://wtl.chefjimi.us/Wildthing%20B...Home/index.htm WildThings Baseball has been in existence since the inaugural season of (randomly chosen) 1947. Currently just ended the 1952 season, we use a customised DataBase based on Ankits' Career DB. The length of this DB runs 50 years. Players debut from any point in time, and are drafted in accordance with normal ammy rules. This has been a successful, fun and always different league - excepting Bakersfield/Brooklyn winning title 3 of 4 years. Currently 2 Leagues, 2 Divisions in each. Wildcard Playoffs (all 7 games), Salary Cap, No Rule 5 (arrgh it do blow), other stuff..... All of this you can find by getting over to the link (above) and clicking on the links to the left of the HOME page. Oh yeh BTW - we currently have 2 open teams - one was just put up. The other was vacant at season start - we chose not to fill it but to let the comp run it - and wil continue to do so unlesswe find a suitable owner. Please c'mon over and check us out - if you thinkits a thing you wanna do - then sure enuf c'mon and jump with us. It's fun, competitive, but not life or death - sim 3 times weekly (T/T/S) and this is the perfect time to join as we are - as I said - just ending the 1952 season, and are about to switch over to 1953. __________________ Love, Peace & Chicken Grease, chef jimiP

10-22-2004, 10:14 AM	#4
arod23 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 378	Thanks. I knew someone would be on top of this. As soon as I searched for "chaos" I got several links to similar leagues. However, none of the files are posted anymore and they looked like they were based on older databases only through 2001.

10-22-2004, 05:20 PM	#8
kingcharlesxii Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,730	Here's a file someone (I think it was SandMan) made using those random debut files: http://files.simcentral.net/index/Detailed/3343.shtml It says OOTP5 but I think it will work with 6. __________________ OTBA - Stockholm Royal Squirrels of Sweden OOTP Grand League Champion 2015

10-23-2004, 01:03 PM	#10
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	New project if anyone is interested.... I was thinking about creating a fictional/historical database to use within the game. I would use the players in lahman and also enough fictional players to get a good mix each season. How would I create the mix??? I would use the players in Ankits + I would need a few owners to send me their output files from either the export program for each season, or a copy of their catobase files. I would put these into an access table and then convert to the CSV files needed to import into the game. This would allow players to play upto 150-200 seasons instead of 80-90...... Some purist would not want historical and fictional mixed but I think that this is needed since using only historical players tends to put players into the minors and they cannot play as many major league seasons (this is due to the first season in the tables is their rookie year and not debut year in baseball). Just an idea anyone interested send me a message..... I also like the idea of putting "YOUR" fictional players into a database, some or all of them, I still keep a list of my favorite players...