NL Champion Getting Double-Screwed! - Page 2

kingfc22 · 10-21-2004, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UngratefulDead

What is this "National League" you speak of?

It's the place where real baseball is played. Not the homerun derby game played in that "other" league.

dougaiton · 10-21-2004, 09:23 PM

It is worth pointing out that the Cards/Stros started a day later. Thus, it should be easier for them to set up their rotation to begin with i.e. NL gets a day before the div series, AL gets the day after the series for extra rest.

Now, I could see why people might see that as getting screwed if you go to 7, because the best pitchers will probably be brought out for that. However, if all else is equal, that extra day before should allow you to reorganise your rotation to its best effectiveness. Whether it works like that is, of course, another story.

AngelinOF · 10-21-2004, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

travel days are kinda meaningless since were talking boston/new york and not new york/anaheim

Umm I didn't mention anything about the distance traveled. Due to the game 3 rainout the AL was forced to play on a scheduled off day which in turn led to them having to play 5 consecutive days.

disposableheros · 10-21-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelinOF

Umm I didn't mention anything about the distance traveled. Due to the game 3 rainout the AL was forced to play on a scheduled off day which in turn led to them having to play 5 consecutive days.

5 consecutive days is nothing when the games are played so close geographically. how many times during the season does a team play 5 days in a row?

if we were talking east and west coast, then 5 days does mean something.

GeoWar · 10-21-2004, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

The extra off-day would bother me far more than the home-field advantage thing. Maybe the team that doesn't get home-field gets the extra off day in the future? That would balance things out a bit I'd think.

The commish could have allowed the day off for travel after game 5 of the ALCS -- then game 7 would have been tonight along with game 7 of NLCS.

But then the Red Sox and Yankees pitching staffs would have been rested and the tactics would have been different ---- Pedro likely would have started for Boston and Mussina or Vas for New York .....

Bud BABY hates George and the Yankees ---- maybe George will take Sheets this winter from the Brewers..

The Red Sox had a great year and so did the Yankees --- The ALCS will mean nothing to the Red Sox's unless they can finish and WIN their FIRST World Series since 1918. "The Curse" isn't the Yankees - it is the Series !!

Eric · 10-22-2004, 12:59 AM

So given that the NL only has one day of rest before game 1 of the WS, did the Astros and Cardinals send their potential #1 starter to Boston today?

That would suck being the Astros' starter, sitting in Boston and realizing that you have to turn around and come back home.

rem · 10-22-2004, 01:05 AM

No. You wouldn't send ahead when you have a Game 7 to play and I'm pretty sure Oswalt would have been the Game One starter.

andymac · 10-22-2004, 06:46 AM

The number of days' rest basically will not come in to play because the Cardinals rotation is set up to hit the World Series without missing a beat, it would have mattered much more had the Astros won tonight.

Splitter24 · 10-22-2004, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

5 consecutive days is nothing when the games are played so close geographically. how many times during the season does a team play 5 days in a row?

if we were talking east and west coast, then 5 days does mean something.

Well, I would agree you during the regular season. But during these playoffs I totally disagree. When every game meant so much (especially to the Red Sox where every game was an elimination game) that you had starting pitchers coming in in the middle of games, five consecutive games (two of which went 12 and 14 innings respectively) is huge. Geography had absolutely nothing to do with it. Not having the off day was a burden for both teams. Just look at the starting pitchers for Game Seven: Kevin Brown for the Yankees on three days rest and Derek Lowe for the Red Sox on TWO days rest.

KurtBevacqua · 10-22-2004, 10:07 AM

Baseball post season has had these wierd schedule quirks forever. Wasn't that long ago homefield advantage was just flip-flopped every year. I didn't like making the All-Star game factor into this, but that's just the way it is. St Louis has a good enough team it shouldn't matter. They should just be happy they have 4-7 more games to play and go out swinging.

andjbock · 10-22-2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

5 consecutive days is nothing when the games are played so close geographically. how many times during the season does a team play 5 days in a row?

if we were talking east and west coast, then 5 days does mean something.

Are you kidding me? 5 days in a row. Do you know how many relievers had to pitch more than they normally would have? 1 travel day means nothing I don't care how far it takes you to get to the next ballpark.

andjbock · 10-22-2004, 10:23 AM

As far as the all-star game is concerned. I have always found it to be worthless. It means nothing. I have no interest in seeing a game that doesn't count for anything, that lacks intensity, and pits the AL vs. the NL if there is interleague play.

That being said, at least now there is some reason for me to follow the game. Some people will say that it is unfair to the team with the best record during the regular season. It's true it is. But, you get home field throughout your league's playoffs for having the best record. You're not matched up against the other league (AL or NL), so why shouldn't the all-star game be allowed to hold the prestige of giving the winning league home field advantage.

Erik W. · 10-22-2004, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfc22

It's the place where real baseball is played. Not the homerun derby game played in that "other" league.

Not that I disagree, because NL baseball is far better, but... odd you should say that in the year that the NLCS set a record for most combined home runs hit.

ctorg · 10-22-2004, 01:28 PM

The All Star Game should be gotten rid of, IMO. It might have meant something back in the days when guys spent their careers on one team and the only times guys from each league saw each other were the postseason and the ASG, but nowadays it means nothing at all. These guys see each other regularly, or have seen each other at some point, most of the time.

Akrobat · 10-22-2004, 01:34 PM

No offense, but the "extra day off" idea has no merit. What if the Cardinals won in 4 games while the Red Sox won in 7? The Cardinals would have an extra 3-4 days off. What if the Red Sox won in 5 while the Cardinals won in 6? Every year you are going to have a team with more days off then the rest. There's no proof that an extra day off helps a team win, and furthermore it could be said that an extra day off can get a team out of their groove. Let them play the game, as I don't think the Cardinals care that Boston had an extra day off. The fact that they got to the World Series is all that is on their mind right now. You won't see Albert Pujols say: "Man, this is crap that Boston got an extra day off. They are going to beat us now!" If your team is relying on who is more rested rather than who has more talent, you wouldn't be in the World Series to begin with.

ctorg · 10-22-2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrobat

No offense, but the "extra day off" idea has no merit. What if the Cardinals won in 4 games while the Red Sox won in 7? The Cardinals would have an extra 3-4 days off. What if the Red Sox won in 5 while the Cardinals won in 6? Every year you are going to have a team with more days off then the rest. There's no proof that an extra day off helps a team win, and furthermore it could be said that an extra day off can get a team out of their groove. Let them play the game, as I don't think the Cardinals care that Boston had an extra day off. The fact that they got to the World Series is all that is on their mind right now. You won't see Albert Pujols say: "Man, this is crap that Boston got an extra day off. They are going to beat us now!" If your team is relying on who is more rested rather than who has more talent, you wouldn't be in the World Series to begin with.

I wonder if there is any kind of data on the success of teams related to days off.

Le Grande Orange · 10-22-2004, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoWar

The commish could have allowed the day off for travel after game 5 of the ALCS -- then game 7 would have been tonight along with game 7 of NLCS.

Yes, but as I said before, the schedules are locked in well ahead of time and are not changed unless a series of postponements makes it unavoidable. In this case, with only one postponement, the off day is used to keep the rest of the LCS games on their originally scheduled dates.

The current pattern of post-season scheduling has been the same since 1996, so it's not like there have been any new wrinkles introduced this year.

In 1995, the first year where there was the three-round post-season, all the games in each series were set on the same dates, and MLB broke up the broadcasting such that different regions would see different games. That did not work out so well, so in 1996 MLB changed things to the semi-staggered series dates.

AngelinOF · 10-22-2004, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

I wonder if there is any kind of data on the success of teams related to days off.

You could probably check the LCS post season history to see, there has always been pretty much a set start date for the WS to begin the only thing that has really changed has been the start day. Now because of television revenue MLB would like to have 4 of the 7 games schedule for the weekend.

*************Edit********************************* *****
Ok of the 34 postseasons since the inception of the LCS, 24 have had a situation where one league had more days off (10 had more than 1 extra day) either because they won in less games or because the way the games where scheduled. Of those 24, 16 (7 involved multiple days off) resulted in the team that had more days off winning the series. Now to further narrow down the field, 9 postseason involved LCS that went the same amount of games so one can assume that because of scheduling one league was given an extra day off. Of those 9, 7 went on to win the WS. Only the A's dynasty in the early 70's was able to buck the trend, they won back-to-back WS 72' & 73' when both LCS went 5 games and the NL had the benefit of an extra day off.

10-21-2004, 09:23 PM	#22
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	It is worth pointing out that the Cards/Stros started a day later. Thus, it should be easier for them to set up their rotation to begin with i.e. NL gets a day before the div series, AL gets the day after the series for extra rest. Now, I could see why people might see that as getting screwed if you go to 7, because the best pitchers will probably be brought out for that. However, if all else is equal, that extra day before should allow you to reorganise your rotation to its best effectiveness. Whether it works like that is, of course, another story. __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

10-22-2004, 01:05 AM	#27
rem Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: College Park, Md. Posts: 5,024	No. You wouldn't send ahead when you have a Game 7 to play and I'm pretty sure Oswalt would have been the Game One starter. __________________ OTBA: Washington Filibusters CLBR: Minnesota Twins 2005 Winner of LL's Pick the Loser Contest! - 15-0

10-22-2004, 06:46 AM	#28
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	The number of days' rest basically will not come in to play because the Cardinals rotation is set up to hit the World Series without missing a beat, it would have mattered much more had the Astros won tonight. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

10-22-2004, 10:07 AM	#30
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	Baseball post season has had these wierd schedule quirks forever. Wasn't that long ago homefield advantage was just flip-flopped every year. I didn't like making the All-Star game factor into this, but that's just the way it is. St Louis has a good enough team it shouldn't matter. They should just be happy they have 4-7 more games to play and go out swinging. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner

10-22-2004, 01:28 PM	#34
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	The All Star Game should be gotten rid of, IMO. It might have meant something back in the days when guys spent their careers on one team and the only times guys from each league saw each other were the postseason and the ASG, but nowadays it means nothing at all. These guys see each other regularly, or have seen each other at some point, most of the time. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-22-2004, 12:59 AM	#26
Eric All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 1,234	So given that the NL only has one day of rest before game 1 of the WS, did the Astros and Cardinals send their potential #1 starter to Boston today? That would suck being the Astros' starter, sitting in Boston and realizing that you have to turn around and come back home.

10-22-2004, 10:23 AM	#32
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,637	As far as the all-star game is concerned. I have always found it to be worthless. It means nothing. I have no interest in seeing a game that doesn't count for anything, that lacks intensity, and pits the AL vs. the NL if there is interleague play. That being said, at least now there is some reason for me to follow the game. Some people will say that it is unfair to the team with the best record during the regular season. It's true it is. But, you get home field throughout your league's playoffs for having the best record. You're not matched up against the other league (AL or NL), so why shouldn't the all-star game be allowed to hold the prestige of giving the winning league home field advantage.

10-22-2004, 01:34 PM	#35
Akrobat All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 922	No offense, but the "extra day off" idea has no merit. What if the Cardinals won in 4 games while the Red Sox won in 7? The Cardinals would have an extra 3-4 days off. What if the Red Sox won in 5 while the Cardinals won in 6? Every year you are going to have a team with more days off then the rest. There's no proof that an extra day off helps a team win, and furthermore it could be said that an extra day off can get a team out of their groove. Let them play the game, as I don't think the Cardinals care that Boston had an extra day off. The fact that they got to the World Series is all that is on their mind right now. You won't see Albert Pujols say: "Man, this is crap that Boston got an extra day off. They are going to beat us now!" If your team is relying on who is more rested rather than who has more talent, you wouldn't be in the World Series to begin with. __________________ Writers-Bloc -- Boston Saints -1990: Player to be Announced