Most wins by a starting pitcher? - Page 2

The_Offspring187 · 08-06-2002, 05:05 AM

Ezra Kyles of the Texas Tornadoes once went 28-1 with an ERA under 2, using 5 man rotations in my fictional Legends of Baseball (LOB) league.

gamadict · 08-06-2002, 07:05 AM

I've seen 25 wins a few times by dominant pitchers on dreadnaught teams...

Lets Go Mets · 08-06-2002, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OOL Fan

Well, unless you made a mistake in typing or played a season longer than 162 games, your right. I am not going to believe you.

Because using your league's 5 man rotation a starting pitcher will not even get 44 starts. LOL.

I agree with this guy...
on the other hand there was a guy..John DiCarlo who won 29 games in one of my leagues

obaslg · 08-06-2002, 04:51 PM

In the FAST online league, I had two 30-winners on the same staff, same season - Weaver and Zito - 4-man rotation. This year, I have Hampton at 29-3, but he actually entered September with 28 - just had a rotten month.

Steve Kuffrey · 08-06-2002, 04:57 PM

Bruce Chen 27-3 2007, who?

hehe

fantom1979 · 08-07-2002, 06:26 AM

Bruce Lee? wow, thats amazing

badfish · 08-07-2002, 09:31 AM

Please see the discussion in this post. I wonder if this had something to do with the amount of wins by some starting pitchers in a 5 man rotation:

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...threadid=13156

troyberg · 08-12-2002, 04:04 PM

I also had a 30-game winner (five-man rotation) in a fictional solo league. My ace, a pitcher by the name of Jandreau, was 30-2 with a 1.87 ERA. At just 36 years old, he is now 322-107 with a 2.89 ERA.

JAttractive · 08-12-2002, 05:27 PM

Most I have ever seen in my fictional leagues, slightly modified modern settings (2 % fewer hits, 5% fewer homeruns), was a 29-2 season with a 2.23 era. The next highest win total ever was a 27 win season but this guy amazing had 0 losses and a 1.92 era. In fact this guy, sandwiched between the three seasons won 36 consecutive games without a loss and 41 consecutive if you count the playoffs! The player literally went hot right away and never lost the hot streak (orange colour) for the rest of that season. Of all the seasons for a hitter or pitcher his was the most amazing I have witnessed.

SSG Troyer · 08-12-2002, 11:24 PM

I just had a second-year man (fictional) go 26-0 with a 2.49 ERA in 34 starts.

Combined with the previous season, he had a win streak of 30 games before the LCS, where he lost two starts in a row, helping to knock his team out of the playoffs. He won two POMs, POY, and 4 shutouts, but the team traded him in the off-season...

Mavpa Van Cleef · 08-13-2002, 12:16 AM

In OOTP2, I got Kerry Wood up to something like 50 wins by putting him in in tie games and hoping I'd pull it out. Obviously, it was heavily doctored, even to the point I would walk in the bases loaded and force a few in to tie the score for him. A record that would still stand.
I haven't had many big time starters in my fictional league...I think only 1 20 game winner. And I'm not 100% sure he pulled it off. For some reason, I got a lot of HUGE hitters in it....but anyway, I have a reliever on my time, Roy Cadorrette, who won 16 out of the pen. 16-1 too. Not even a long relief guy, just a right place at the right time kind of dude.

redsox45 · 08-13-2002, 08:35 AM

In a test sim of 1903 I ran, christy Mathewson went 38-5, but that wasn't in baseball's modern era either, though I still find it incredible -- especially since he was only 22!

Will

holyroller · 08-13-2002, 09:03 AM

The record in real life, I believe, is 41 wins, someone correct me if I am wrong. In the deadball era, teams used three man rotations and almost never used the bullpen. Starters were expected to go the distance and it was rare when they didn't. Now before someone starts going off on how pitchers were so much more tough than the weenies nowadays consider some things. One, rare was the pitcher who lasted much beyond their thirtieth birthday. For every Walter Johnson there were a dozen Addie Joss's (yes, I know I am exagerating). Two, pitchers threw basically two pitches: fastball and curveball, and mostly fastballs. Pitchers today throw sliders, split-fingers, sinkers, and the like which put a great deal of stress on the arm. Three, owing to the fact that it was the deadball era, there was far less offense. This meant that pitchers threw a great deal less pitches than they do now. If a pitcher throws 140 pitches now, that is considered (rightly, in my estimation) to be a recklessly high amount of pitches in a single game. Consider that Christy Matthewson was quoted saying that pitchers needed to build up their stamina because they sometimes had to throw as many as 100 pitches in a single game. A 400 inning season in the deadball era would be roughly as many pitches thrown as a 250 season today. Anyway, I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I thought it might shed some light on why the dead ball era replays will provide pitchers with so many more wins than those of later eras.

Dwolfson20 · 08-13-2002, 01:23 PM

To add to that, you could also mention the fact that games these days take much longer (at least 3 hours) and that pitchers deteriorate after about 2 hours. The games in the olden days didn't have commercial breaks and human rain-delays like Joe McEwing to slow them down.

JML · 08-13-2002, 01:33 PM

Also, with the much weaker offense, pitchers didn't have to go all out in every at-bat. They would be able to coast through the games at times (esp. if their team scored them a few runs) and conserve their arm strength.

John C · 08-13-2002, 02:24 PM

Technically speaking, the record for wins in a season is 59 or 60, depending on the source. Old Hoss Radbourn went 60-12 in 1884. He ended up throwing something like 26 or their final 27 games when Providence's second starter jumped the team. He threw ridiculous amounts of games, most of them complete games.

If I had the actual stats, I'd lay them out. The 20th century record is 41 wins by Jack Chesbro in 1904, I believe for the New York Highlanders, but I'm not sure. If I'm mistaken, please correct me.

Peace
John

Kevin Koss · 08-13-2002, 05:18 PM

Jim Shaw went 38-13 in 1920 in my replay league was 3 man rotations and the year before in 1919 Stan Coveleski and Jim Bagby both won 33 games and they were on the same team.

CubsFan · 08-13-2002, 05:28 PM

Another big help to "old-timers" throwing so many innings was the perfectly legal spit-ball and the lack of replacing foul balls with a new ball.

JAttractive · 08-13-2002, 06:06 PM

Thanks for the history lesson HolyRoller! I hate to admit it but I don't know a lot about pre-1984 baseball. I only started to follow baseball as a Canadian because I don't live too far from Toronto and happened to watch a few games and fell in love. However I don't know a lot of other people in my life who share this interest and I have had a hard time truly learning about it. Most of what I learn is from watching Blue Jays games on television.

My family was much more interested in hockey when I was growing up and I was sort of the "black sheep", hanging up my skates for cleats. I actually remember my grand parents freaking out on my parents that "no Canadian boy should be allowed to give up hockey. This boy will grow into a sissy!" (or something along those lines). They thought I couldn't hear them mind you but it will always stick in my mind just how obsessive we can be up here about hockey. This was also after three years of hockey school during which I hated every minute. In my third year, age 9, I finally found this as an alternative and even though I was never all that good I will fondly remember my baseball playing days. In my last year of highschool the teachers had finally convinced our school board to allow our school to have a hardball team that would travel around Southern Ontario and into New York. I made the team as the starting CF, about the only player on the team that could hit our 88mph throwing pitcher though just barely, as most of the others were football/hockey players who wanted something else to play and were all power but little skill/speed. Sadly the teachers went on strike the week before we were to start travelling and the league was cancelled until next year when I was already off for university. I always wonder how we would have fared against the NY teams. I am sure it would have been blow outs every game but I bet it would have been insanely fun anyway.

08-06-2002, 04:51 PM	#24
obaslg All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 887	In the FAST online league, I had two 30-winners on the same staff, same season - Weaver and Zito - 4-man rotation. This year, I have Hampton at 29-3, but he actually entered September with 28 - just had a rotten month. __________________ Realy good musition of many insterments, including the hyperbolic vitriol.

08-06-2002, 04:57 PM	#25
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	Bruce Chen 27-3 2007, who? hehe __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

08-07-2002, 06:26 AM	#26
fantom1979 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 3,498	Bruce Lee? wow, thats amazing __________________

08-12-2002, 04:04 PM	#28
troyberg Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 74	30-game winner I also had a 30-game winner (five-man rotation) in a fictional solo league. My ace, a pitcher by the name of Jandreau, was 30-2 with a 1.87 ERA. At just 36 years old, he is now 322-107 with a 2.89 ERA.

08-12-2002, 11:24 PM	#30
SSG Troyer All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somewhere to the left of 2nd base Posts: 1,598	I just had a second-year man (fictional) go 26-0 with a 2.49 ERA in 34 starts. Combined with the previous season, he had a win streak of 30 games before the LCS, where he lost two starts in a row, helping to knock his team out of the playoffs. He won two POMs, POY, and 4 shutouts, but the team traded him in the off-season... __________________ MWT Did Tennesee Delaware Mississppi's New Jersey? Idaho ... Alaska!

08-06-2002, 05:05 AM	#21
The_Offspring187 Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 482	Ezra Kyles of the Texas Tornadoes once went 28-1 with an ERA under 2, using 5 man rotations in my fictional Legends of Baseball (LOB) league.

08-06-2002, 07:05 AM	#22
gamadict Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pitsburgh, PA... Posts: 50	I've seen 25 wins a few times by dominant pitchers on dreadnaught teams...

08-07-2002, 09:31 AM	#27
badfish Bat Boy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 14	Please see the discussion in this post. I wonder if this had something to do with the amount of wins by some starting pitchers in a 5 man rotation: http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...threadid=13156

08-12-2002, 05:27 PM	#29
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	Most I have ever seen in my fictional leagues, slightly modified modern settings (2 % fewer hits, 5% fewer homeruns), was a 29-2 season with a 2.23 era. The next highest win total ever was a 27 win season but this guy amazing had 0 losses and a 1.92 era. In fact this guy, sandwiched between the three seasons won 36 consecutive games without a loss and 41 consecutive if you count the playoffs! The player literally went hot right away and never lost the hot streak (orange colour) for the rest of that season. Of all the seasons for a hitter or pitcher his was the most amazing I have witnessed.

08-13-2002, 12:16 AM	#31
Mavpa Van Cleef Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Philadelphia/Mavpagrad. Posts: 41	In OOTP2, I got Kerry Wood up to something like 50 wins by putting him in in tie games and hoping I'd pull it out. Obviously, it was heavily doctored, even to the point I would walk in the bases loaded and force a few in to tie the score for him. A record that would still stand. I haven't had many big time starters in my fictional league...I think only 1 20 game winner. And I'm not 100% sure he pulled it off. For some reason, I got a lot of HUGE hitters in it....but anyway, I have a reliever on my time, Roy Cadorrette, who won 16 out of the pen. 16-1 too. Not even a long relief guy, just a right place at the right time kind of dude.

08-13-2002, 08:35 AM	#32
redsox45 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Machias, Maine Posts: 4,573	In a test sim of 1903 I ran, christy Mathewson went 38-5, but that wasn't in baseball's modern era either, though I still find it incredible -- especially since he was only 22! Will __________________ Top Five Books I Ever Read: 1. Murder of Roger Ackroyd -- Agatha Christie 2. Birds of Prey -- Wilbur Smith 3. King Solomon's Mines - H. Rider Haggard 4. Comstock Lode -- Louis L'Amour 5. Andersonville -- McKinley Kantor

08-13-2002, 09:03 AM	#33
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	The record in real life, I believe, is 41 wins, someone correct me if I am wrong. In the deadball era, teams used three man rotations and almost never used the bullpen. Starters were expected to go the distance and it was rare when they didn't. Now before someone starts going off on how pitchers were so much more tough than the weenies nowadays consider some things. One, rare was the pitcher who lasted much beyond their thirtieth birthday. For every Walter Johnson there were a dozen Addie Joss's (yes, I know I am exagerating). Two, pitchers threw basically two pitches: fastball and curveball, and mostly fastballs. Pitchers today throw sliders, split-fingers, sinkers, and the like which put a great deal of stress on the arm. Three, owing to the fact that it was the deadball era, there was far less offense. This meant that pitchers threw a great deal less pitches than they do now. If a pitcher throws 140 pitches now, that is considered (rightly, in my estimation) to be a recklessly high amount of pitches in a single game. Consider that Christy Matthewson was quoted saying that pitchers needed to build up their stamina because they sometimes had to throw as many as 100 pitches in a single game. A 400 inning season in the deadball era would be roughly as many pitches thrown as a 250 season today. Anyway, I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I thought it might shed some light on why the dead ball era replays will provide pitchers with so many more wins than those of later eras. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

08-13-2002, 01:23 PM	#34
Dwolfson20 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not St. Louis Posts: 2,872	To add to that, you could also mention the fact that games these days take much longer (at least 3 hours) and that pitchers deteriorate after about 2 hours. The games in the olden days didn't have commercial breaks and human rain-delays like Joe McEwing to slow them down. __________________

08-13-2002, 01:33 PM	#35
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	Also, with the much weaker offense, pitchers didn't have to go all out in every at-bat. They would be able to coast through the games at times (esp. if their team scored them a few runs) and conserve their arm strength.

08-13-2002, 02:24 PM	#36
John C Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Albion, RI Posts: 2,261 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Technically speaking, the record for wins in a season is 59 or 60, depending on the source. Old Hoss Radbourn went 60-12 in 1884. He ended up throwing something like 26 or their final 27 games when Providence's second starter jumped the team. He threw ridiculous amounts of games, most of them complete games. If I had the actual stats, I'd lay them out. The 20th century record is 41 wins by Jack Chesbro in 1904, I believe for the New York Highlanders, but I'm not sure. If I'm mistaken, please correct me. Peace John __________________ Facebook \| My Videos

08-13-2002, 05:18 PM	#37
Kevin Koss Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 52	Jim Shaw went 38-13 in 1920 in my replay league was 3 man rotations and the year before in 1919 Stan Coveleski and Jim Bagby both won 33 games and they were on the same team.

08-13-2002, 05:28 PM	#38
CubsFan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 150	Another big help to "old-timers" throwing so many innings was the perfectly legal spit-ball and the lack of replacing foul balls with a new ball.

08-13-2002, 06:06 PM	#39
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	Thanks for the history lesson HolyRoller! I hate to admit it but I don't know a lot about pre-1984 baseball. I only started to follow baseball as a Canadian because I don't live too far from Toronto and happened to watch a few games and fell in love. However I don't know a lot of other people in my life who share this interest and I have had a hard time truly learning about it. Most of what I learn is from watching Blue Jays games on television. My family was much more interested in hockey when I was growing up and I was sort of the "black sheep", hanging up my skates for cleats. I actually remember my grand parents freaking out on my parents that "no Canadian boy should be allowed to give up hockey. This boy will grow into a sissy!" (or something along those lines). They thought I couldn't hear them mind you but it will always stick in my mind just how obsessive we can be up here about hockey. This was also after three years of hockey school during which I hated every minute. In my third year, age 9, I finally found this as an alternative and even though I was never all that good I will fondly remember my baseball playing days. In my last year of highschool the teachers had finally convinced our school board to allow our school to have a hardball team that would travel around Southern Ontario and into New York. I made the team as the starting CF, about the only player on the team that could hit our 88mph throwing pitcher though just barely, as most of the others were football/hockey players who wanted something else to play and were all power but little skill/speed. Sadly the teachers went on strike the week before we were to start travelling and the league was cancelled until next year when I was already off for university. I always wonder how we would have fared against the NY teams. I am sure it would have been blow outs every game but I bet it would have been insanely fun anyway.