defensive park effects

fluharty · 10-14-2004, 07:45 PM

Left field is HUGE at PNC Park, for example, so it should be tougher to play.

sporr · 10-15-2004, 10:46 AM

This is a very interesting idea. I wonder, though, how much of this is already part of the ballpark factors the way they are. It would probably be more realistic to scrap the general ballpark factors and instead base things on actual stadium dimensions somehow. However, the complexity of programming something like this would probably be overwhelming.

ctorg · 10-15-2004, 11:06 AM

That is a consideration in the singles, doubles and triples ratings, but for it to be really proper, it should depend on where the ball is hit, which OOTP doesn't calculate anyway.

Really, there are too many factors that go into the park factors to get them from dimensions. There's visibility for the batter, there's wind, there's altitude, there's foul territory, and many other little things.

fluharty · 10-15-2004, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sporr

This is a very interesting idea. I wonder, though, how much of this is already part of the ballpark factors the way they are. It would probably be more realistic to scrap the general ballpark factors and instead base things on actual stadium dimensions somehow. However, the complexity of programming something like this would probably be overwhelming.

I was thinking of something simplified, like a range modifier. PNC might get a modifier of -10 on a scale of 100, for example, so an 85 range guy would effectively be 75 since PNC is bigger in LF. Not sure this apply anywhere but OF, but it does make a difference, since you really don't want someone with below average range patroling out there.

Dan Theman · 10-17-2004, 10:31 AM

The idea, as I see it, is basically to make ballpark effects more detailed. I have to admit I kind of like it. The way that the game is currently programmed (also as I understand it) it can't be done in v.6, but with Markus starting all over for v.7, I think it may stand a chance.

Carlton · 10-17-2004, 04:49 PM

But how would you rate the HHH Metrodome?

Small LF-RF...but that white top...makes GGers look foolish when they lose the ball

dougaiton · 10-17-2004, 08:22 PM

I like the concept, but I worry that, as Sporr said, it would be hard to extract offensive and defensive factors from the standard 'ballpark factors', especially in historical modes. Considering defense is so frighteningly complex (def. factors would have to be totally different depending on whether there was a lefty or righty on the mound) and you'd need to properly model '2D' defense as well - as Carlton says, how many flyballs in the metrodome are missed because of the ceiling and how many because of the dimensions? Does a pop-up hitter have a better or worse chance of inducing an error?

However, if any of this could be done properly, it would undoubtedly make the game better!

fluharty · 10-19-2004, 08:57 PM

It would certainly be complicated, but like everything else, you bite off a little at a time. I like the idea of a stadium roof having an effect in OOTP, and that makes me want to see sunlight having an effect, even if is just a very small increase in the chance for an error. Then the pbp could say he lost it in the sun. Does the game include fan interference? That would be cool too. =)

sporr · 10-20-2004, 12:13 PM

This idea reminds me a lot of the SherCo (I think) baseball board game that had a gridded playing field and changeable stadium walls. You could position your fielders and where they were playing and their range would determine whether they could reach a ball or not. It was neat because you could witness the wind blowing balls foul or over the fence, etc.

10-14-2004, 07:45 PM	#1
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	defensive park effects Left field is HUGE at PNC Park, for example, so it should be tougher to play.

10-15-2004, 11:06 AM	#3
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	That is a consideration in the singles, doubles and triples ratings, but for it to be really proper, it should depend on where the ball is hit, which OOTP doesn't calculate anyway. Really, there are too many factors that go into the park factors to get them from dimensions. There's visibility for the batter, there's wind, there's altitude, there's foul territory, and many other little things. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-17-2004, 04:49 PM	#6
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	But how would you rate the HHH Metrodome? Small LF-RF...but that white top...makes GGers look foolish when they lose the ball __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

10-17-2004, 08:22 PM	#7
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	I like the concept, but I worry that, as Sporr said, it would be hard to extract offensive and defensive factors from the standard 'ballpark factors', especially in historical modes. Considering defense is so frighteningly complex (def. factors would have to be totally different depending on whether there was a lefty or righty on the mound) and you'd need to properly model '2D' defense as well - as Carlton says, how many flyballs in the metrodome are missed because of the ceiling and how many because of the dimensions? Does a pop-up hitter have a better or worse chance of inducing an error? However, if any of this could be done properly, it would undoubtedly make the game better! __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

10-15-2004, 10:46 AM	#2
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	This is a very interesting idea. I wonder, though, how much of this is already part of the ballpark factors the way they are. It would probably be more realistic to scrap the general ballpark factors and instead base things on actual stadium dimensions somehow. However, the complexity of programming something like this would probably be overwhelming.

10-19-2004, 08:57 PM	#8
fluharty All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 1,023	It would certainly be complicated, but like everything else, you bite off a little at a time. I like the idea of a stadium roof having an effect in OOTP, and that makes me want to see sunlight having an effect, even if is just a very small increase in the chance for an error. Then the pbp could say he lost it in the sun. Does the game include fan interference? That would be cool too. =)

10-20-2004, 12:13 PM	#9
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	This idea reminds me a lot of the SherCo (I think) baseball board game that had a gridded playing field and changeable stadium walls. You could position your fielders and where they were playing and their range would determine whether they could reach a ball or not. It was neat because you could witness the wind blowing balls foul or over the fence, etc.