So Where'd Markus Go?

cknox0723 · 09-23-2004, 10:53 AM

Perhaps I'm just being grumpy, but what ever happened to the whole idea of "we're going to communicate more, so we don't have an OOTP6 uprising complete with pitchforks and burning heretics"?

Yes, it's been all of four days since we've heard from Markus -- but is it really THAT much to ask that THE MAN (and the sole developer of the game) come on the boards once in a great while, and let us have some idea of...

say, what the "play-by-play suggestion thread" is?
or what "ancient bugs" are going to be squashed?
or how development of the next patch is going?
or...anything, really?

I haven't really complained at all about any of this...and maybe it's a lot to ask. But isn't that the point? What's wrong with asking a lot? Sure, half-assing it...not following through on things, not having a level of support like Clay Dreslough had back in the heyday of Mogul or what it sounds like Markus had a few versions ago -- it's easier and less time-consuming.

But does it help? Look around the boards -- you tell me.

So along with all that -- where's M. Heinsohn?

highandoutside · 09-23-2004, 11:03 AM

Can we please give the guy a break??? This is getting silly.

Henry · 09-23-2004, 11:04 AM

I don't know. I haven't talked to him.

cknox0723 · 09-23-2004, 11:13 AM

You know, it's funny, I typed that up, stumbled on over to Talk Sports, and saw the Heinsohn alias on there.

I never was very good with my timing.

oh, and as for the first reply to my little thread here - mr. highandoutside, tell me what exactly was so silly about my posting this. Wasn't abusive; in fact, I'd say I was pretty damned polite. Markus has said that he's going to be more regular with his updates and stuff, yet we haven't heard from him in four days.

In my experience with small sole proprietorships, which is basically what Markus has here, communication is what sets you apart. If we're not going to hear from "The Man"...the same manner that most larger companies proceed in...that's fine. I've gotten my $35 worth from this game and then some, and I can live with it.

But if I wanted that, I'd just buy a console game and let it sit at that. You think that's silly, fair enough. Isn't going to change my mind.

Dan Theman · 09-23-2004, 11:26 AM

It was hardly "polite," I'm sure you're well aware of that.

Regardless, I think you're beating a dead horse and highandoutside is probably feeling the same way.

cknox0723 · 09-23-2004, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Theman

It was hardly "polite," I'm sure you're well aware of that.

Regardless, I think you're beating a dead horse and highandoutside is probably feeling the same way.

Que? Certainly not what I expected when I saw that one of the more helpful guys on this board had replied to my thread.

Wasn't my intent, not at all, and at this point, I suppose I would just delete the thread if I could. I guess I'm just looking at this the wrong way, and not really articulating what I'm saying well. It's probably why I've never said much in the vein of "This game sucks, It needs to be fixed!!!11! " in the first place.

Also, you know, I did actually say that in my post. But either no one read it or I just didn't make that clear enough. Doesn't matter - I'll go back to writing up my dynasty...minimalizing the flaws the game has, and accepting that to ask for me is to be a glutton. And I won't say a word.

Goodsox · 09-23-2004, 11:45 AM

Craig, your post was well-stated, civil, and polite. Some people just feel the need to defend Markus so much that you would think he was their father. People obviously did not read your post closely enough because there was nothing "silly" about it. It is really a shame that people can't state an opinion on this board without getting jumped on by the Markus Bandwagon

dougaiton · 09-23-2004, 11:46 AM

There is absolutely no need to get on Craig's back about this. He made a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Just a note in bug reporting, or whatever, to say it's all being collected. That thread is getting very long very fast, and eventually without pats on the back people are going to start repeating themselves.

Dan Theman · 09-23-2004, 11:53 AM

I'm sorry if I sounded a bit short, I didn't mean to come off that way -

Everyone here wants the game to be more than it is, and also would enjoy having the opportunity to share their views with and get more input from Markus. It's true that you don't complain very often, but there's the whole "straw on the camel's back" thing going on (woo-hoo - I got to mix my metaphors!!). All we have to go on is what we've been told thus far, which is that he's working on it the best that he can and that he's going to make the effort to improve the amount of communication.

Yo me disculpo a usted.

EDIT - just realized that many people don't speak Spanish. "I apologize to you."

cknox0723 · 09-23-2004, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Theman

EDIT - just realized that many people don't speak Spanish. "I apologize to you."

I was going to ask what the hell that meant. Sent you a PM, which is probably unnecessary at this point, but that's the way it should be. Good thread, fellas, keep up the good work!

ctorg · 09-23-2004, 12:07 PM

I thought this was a humor thread until I clicked on it. I was getting ready to post a sarcastic post about how Markus needs to stop by every day and post exactly what he has done.

cknox0723 · 09-23-2004, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

I thought this was a humor thread until I clicked on it. I was getting ready to post a sarcastic post about how Markus needs to stop by every day and post exactly what he has done.

Is it a sign of an odd sense of humor when I, the dope that started this thread, absolutely cracked up upon reading this?

Yeah. I figured.

EJ · 09-23-2004, 12:14 PM

Personally, I'd prefer that Markus bury himself in code than jump on these boards. The bug list is long.

Vezna31 · 09-23-2004, 12:15 PM

I have read more posts by Markus in the last week than the previous 4 months. The guy does have a life. He needs to enjoy it to have the passion to provide us with enjoyment, so give him a break.

Malleus Dei · 09-23-2004, 12:17 PM

Sad thread. A guy asks a reasonable question and gets flamed for it, and then a pointless donnybrook breaks out, and the entire question is obscured by the noise.

No offense to anyone, but some of you really need to lighten up and stop being so defensive.

The saddest part of all of this is that it was a very good question.

Malleus Dei · 09-23-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ

Personally, I'd prefer that Markus bury himself in code than jump on these boards. The bug list is long.

True, it is a very, very long list, and there is much work to be done. But, still, two minutes spent writing a note once a day saying "Hey, I fixed that and this other thing and I'm now working on this thing over here" would go a long way.

bslbase · 09-23-2004, 12:27 PM

I do agree with Craig. While I have been a OOTP fan for two years or so, I tend to notice the inactivity on the OOTP side.

I don't post much on these boards but I thought that I had some remarks to comment to some of the developments that have occured here.

First and foremost, ITP is great concept and should be worked with much more then it has been. ITP has not had a patch in about 9 months and it certainlly has no outlook on a new version or patch within the next few months. This is going to take a lot of interest away from the game and the credibility from the programer. I would deffinatly take into account the length of time that has been takin on this game and the inability to communicate truth to all those that paid for the game.

ITP gamers were promised a patch directly after the release of OOTP 6 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=57613. There have been three patches in that time to OOTP.

OOTP and ITP seem to have taking a backseat to the next version of OOTP under development with sigames.com. This is a HUGE mistake on the developers part. With the mention that the next version will not be until late next year interest in this game will fade. Which if most have not noticed already has started. OOTP6 had many flaws and bugs that need to be worked out before a new version should even be considered. OOTP6 should have takin top priority within the developer.

OOTP has been a HUGE "flip-flop" since the onset of the current version. Delays on the release date where made from day 1 and continue badly. H2H which in my mind was never going to be released, was promised a week from OOTP6's release. If there was this major of a issue with the H2H why was it made to seam that it was so close to being done?

Development of the game should not be so difficult. With the amount of time that is taking for each version, maybe there is some more help that is needed? Delaying a new release version till late next year is fatel to the game. Most interest will drop as many ML teams will be out of the playoffs and everyone is getting into football. THen all start school. The only successful time of year is before baseball season.

I am a OOTP fan and always will be. I will buy any new versions of OOTP and ITP. But seeing the issues that have been accumilating within this company and the delays that continue. I see general support for the game going away.

These are not harsh words but harsh realitites. Just wanted to ramble my thoughts that have been festering.

matskralc · 09-23-2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

True, it is a very, very long list, and there is much work to be done. But, still, two minutes spent writing a note once a day saying "Hey, I fixed that and this other thing and I'm now working on this thing over here" would go a long way.

Absofrigginglutely.

Eugene Church · 09-23-2004, 12:39 PM

Please don't turn this into a Flamer. Discourteous comments can't add any good to this board and I would hope the moderators would put a stop to them as is stated in the Rules of the Forum.

To my knowledge cknox has always been a plus for this community with his knowledgeable and courteous posts. But He may be showing the signs of a frustrated "satisfied customer", which would be a good way to classify me and quite a few other great fans of OOTPB.

We want prompt replies to IMPORTANT questions from Markus. He's the only one that knows many answers about the game...and we don't expect him to tell us something that can be answered by the community.

When a post gets several thousand views and the community cannot answer the question...Markus needs to chime in as he did on the post about "when a pitcher turns red". In 2 posts he told us how the game operates. That didn't take him a whole lot of time and he made a lot of people happy.

I do not understand why he doesn't answer the posts and clarify what he meant in his "development update"...that thread is up to 5,000 views now...he has been asked to explain what he wants...more play-by-play descriptions?...or play results and features currently missing from the game?

It would take him less than a minute to do it and this would mean the "frustrated customers that love the game and will continue to buy it as long as he communicates on a regular basis" will be satisfied.

By "regular basis", I mean to respond to a thread that gains great interest or causes controversy and also give us an OOTPB status report monthly or quarterly detailing the fixed bugs, design limitations and possible new features.

This would make this "frustrated supporter and satisfied customer" happy and not frustrated.

deadringer · 09-23-2004, 12:48 PM

I'm not a programer, in fact I know nothing in the field, so correct me if I'm wrong here. It seems to me that perhaps Ootp has outgrown what Markus can achieve with the staff he has.

Is it possible to have two people work on the code at the same time or is it just a complete nightmare? Perhaps if Markus had a liason with his customers that would help. Steve and Henry do a great job trying to keep the boards civil but often they just don't know enough about how things are really going. I constantly hear complaints about ITP and it's lack of progress and Markus seems to have been so busy on Ootp 7 that version 6 has been a bit neglected.

I guess what I'm asking here is once a programmer does his thing on one project, is it too hard for another programmer to come in and work on the project. It seems to me that if Markus worked on version 7 and had someone work on bug fix for 6 and someone else work on ITP that if would be much more efficient. It just seems like Markus has become the victim of his own success.

I've been playing since Ootp 4 and it does seem that the bigger the game gets the less support and communication we get. Perhaps this is simply due to Markus being overloaded. If that is the case then maybe with merger he could get some more help.

Again, I'm not trying to make assumptions about programming and / or how Ootp is being run. These thoughts are more curiousities of mine that suggestions or criticisms.

09-23-2004, 11:45 AM	#7
Goodsox Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,866	Craig, your post was well-stated, civil, and polite. Some people just feel the need to defend Markus so much that you would think he was their father. People obviously did not read your post closely enough because there was nothing "silly" about it. It is really a shame that people can't state an opinion on this board without getting jumped on by the Markus Bandwagon __________________ GoodSox Go White Sox!

09-23-2004, 11:46 AM	#8
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	There is absolutely no need to get on Craig's back about this. He made a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Just a note in bug reporting, or whatever, to say it's all being collected. That thread is getting very long very fast, and eventually without pats on the back people are going to start repeating themselves. __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

09-23-2004, 12:07 PM	#11
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I thought this was a humor thread until I clicked on it. I was getting ready to post a sarcastic post about how Markus needs to stop by every day and post exactly what he has done. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

09-23-2004, 12:27 PM	#17
bslbase Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 49	I do agree with Craig. While I have been a OOTP fan for two years or so, I tend to notice the inactivity on the OOTP side. I don't post much on these boards but I thought that I had some remarks to comment to some of the developments that have occured here. First and foremost, ITP is great concept and should be worked with much more then it has been. ITP has not had a patch in about 9 months and it certainlly has no outlook on a new version or patch within the next few months. This is going to take a lot of interest away from the game and the credibility from the programer. I would deffinatly take into account the length of time that has been takin on this game and the inability to communicate truth to all those that paid for the game. ITP gamers were promised a patch directly after the release of OOTP 6 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=57613. There have been three patches in that time to OOTP. OOTP and ITP seem to have taking a backseat to the next version of OOTP under development with sigames.com. This is a HUGE mistake on the developers part. With the mention that the next version will not be until late next year interest in this game will fade. Which if most have not noticed already has started. OOTP6 had many flaws and bugs that need to be worked out before a new version should even be considered. OOTP6 should have takin top priority within the developer. OOTP has been a HUGE "flip-flop" since the onset of the current version. Delays on the release date where made from day 1 and continue badly. H2H which in my mind was never going to be released, was promised a week from OOTP6's release. If there was this major of a issue with the H2H why was it made to seam that it was so close to being done? Development of the game should not be so difficult. With the amount of time that is taking for each version, maybe there is some more help that is needed? Delaying a new release version till late next year is fatel to the game. Most interest will drop as many ML teams will be out of the playoffs and everyone is getting into football. THen all start school. The only successful time of year is before baseball season. I am a OOTP fan and always will be. I will buy any new versions of OOTP and ITP. But seeing the issues that have been accumilating within this company and the delays that continue. I see general support for the game going away. These are not harsh words but harsh realitites. Just wanted to ramble my thoughts that have been festering. __________________ www.bslbaseball.com commish@bslbaseball.com

09-23-2004, 12:39 PM	#19
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 35,983	Please don't turn this into a Flamer. Discourteous comments can't add any good to this board and I would hope the moderators would put a stop to them as is stated in the Rules of the Forum. To my knowledge cknox has always been a plus for this community with his knowledgeable and courteous posts. But He may be showing the signs of a frustrated "satisfied customer", which would be a good way to classify me and quite a few other great fans of OOTPB. We want prompt replies to IMPORTANT questions from Markus. He's the only one that knows many answers about the game...and we don't expect him to tell us something that can be answered by the community. When a post gets several thousand views and the community cannot answer the question...Markus needs to chime in as he did on the post about "when a pitcher turns red". In 2 posts he told us how the game operates. That didn't take him a whole lot of time and he made a lot of people happy. I do not understand why he doesn't answer the posts and clarify what he meant in his "development update"...that thread is up to 5,000 views now...he has been asked to explain what he wants...more play-by-play descriptions?...or play results and features currently missing from the game? It would take him less than a minute to do it and this would mean the "frustrated customers that love the game and will continue to buy it as long as he communicates on a regular basis" will be satisfied. By "regular basis", I mean to respond to a thread that gains great interest or causes controversy and also give us an OOTPB status report monthly or quarterly detailing the fixed bugs, design limitations and possible new features. This would make this "frustrated supporter and satisfied customer" happy and not frustrated. Last edited by Eugene Church; 09-23-2004 at 05:53 PM.

09-23-2004, 11:03 AM	#2
highandoutside All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 683	Can we please give the guy a break??? This is getting silly.

09-23-2004, 11:04 AM	#3
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	I don't know. I haven't talked to him.

09-23-2004, 12:14 PM	#13
EJ Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Pacific NW, USA Posts: 145	Personally, I'd prefer that Markus bury himself in code than jump on these boards. The bug list is long.

09-23-2004, 12:15 PM	#14
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,986	I have read more posts by Markus in the last week than the previous 4 months. The guy does have a life. He needs to enjoy it to have the passion to provide us with enjoyment, so give him a break.

09-23-2004, 12:48 PM	#20
deadringer All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: La Grande, Oregon Posts: 994	I'm not a programer, in fact I know nothing in the field, so correct me if I'm wrong here. It seems to me that perhaps Ootp has outgrown what Markus can achieve with the staff he has. Is it possible to have two people work on the code at the same time or is it just a complete nightmare? Perhaps if Markus had a liason with his customers that would help. Steve and Henry do a great job trying to keep the boards civil but often they just don't know enough about how things are really going. I constantly hear complaints about ITP and it's lack of progress and Markus seems to have been so busy on Ootp 7 that version 6 has been a bit neglected. I guess what I'm asking here is once a programmer does his thing on one project, is it too hard for another programmer to come in and work on the project. It seems to me that if Markus worked on version 7 and had someone work on bug fix for 6 and someone else work on ITP that if would be much more efficient. It just seems like Markus has become the victim of his own success. I've been playing since Ootp 4 and it does seem that the bigger the game gets the less support and communication we get. Perhaps this is simply due to Markus being overloaded. If that is the case then maybe with merger he could get some more help. Again, I'm not trying to make assumptions about programming and / or how Ootp is being run. These thoughts are more curiousities of mine that suggestions or criticisms.