And your 2004-05 NFL MVP is... - Page 3

sebastian0622 · 09-16-2004, 06:27 PM

I haven't heard anything about Moss' attitude in, what, a season and a half or more? As far as I'm concerned it's no longer an issue. I don't ever see him do something to hurt his team...I wouldn't have said that two years ago. He is, by far, the best receiver in the NFL. When he's on the field, the rest of the Vikings offense plays 10 on 9 nearly every play--and sometimes 10 on 8. If you're the safety to his side (or if you're the FS and the SS is in the box), you know you don't really have deep leverage. You have deep Moss. That's why the other Vikes receivers get so many long gains. They just have to beat their guy one on one if they put their SS in the box or in playaction if they get too aggressive with him vs the run.

And so Vikes' opponents don't want to put their SS in the box or let him get too aggressive. Then it's 7 on 7 in the run game. In fifteen years of watching football, I have never seen a single non-QB player open up an offense as much as Moss. Ever.

BasicGuy · 09-16-2004, 06:45 PM

Hey how many SuperBowls have the Vikes won???

Better yet when was the last time they made It the big game??

No matter how great Moss Is my point Is his baggage(Precieved or other wise) and cost Is not worth It In my mind....for what the Vikes are paying Moss they could of spread It around a little and In my mind been a better\more balanced team. You say you never seen a WR open the offense like Moss fine..Thats great when the Offense Is fireing on all cylinders....But when they have a bad day as any offense will It comes down to the Defense and theres no doupt In my mind this is the Vikes weakness year in and year out as of late.

And when a team lives and dies by there offense..They normaly don't win Superbowls.

keenejee · 09-18-2004, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crackpott

uh... Marvin Harrison has a case, and if we're disregarding attitude, Owens has to be thrown into the mix as well. It probably is Moss, but still... i never like when people make statements like this.

The only argument you can come up with is his attitude. Take a look at the stats, what matters most is what TO & Moss do. They score touchdowns. If you don't like them, fine, but you can't ignore the fact that they're just that damn good.

Harrison's good, but if we put Moss at his absolute 100% performance, Owens at his absolute 100% performance, and Harrison at his absolute 100% performance, then Harrison's taking a back seat at 3rd. It really doesn't matter, because it should be an honor for any WR to be mentioned with those types of players.

crackpott · 09-21-2004, 01:51 AM

Ah, Donovan... I knew you just needed a good receiver, if only to draw coverage....

sebastian0622 · 09-21-2004, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasicGuy

Hey how many SuperBowls have the Vikes won???

Better yet when was the last time they made It the big game?? ...

I'd be more likely to look at Culpeppers 70-71 career fumbles in 61 games as the reason instead of anything Moss has done. But anyway...Barry Sanders never won a Super Bowl either, but it doesn't mean he wasn't the greatest RB of his era. I don't see how Championship Rings in a team sport are viable standalone indicators of individual talent.

And your point about the financial liability of having a great receiver seems better suited to a thread entitled, "Is it Possible to Win the Super Bowl with a Receiver Who Makes a Lot of Money or Will That Mean the Rest of Your Team Will Suck" instead of one that is debating the abilities of said receivers (and other individual players who make big bucks).

EagleEye_0 · 09-21-2004, 02:13 AM

Actually I would say a usually piss poor defense is the main reason. and WTF is up with the Vikings not challenging that Owens touchdown (incompletion)? It was close enough where that red flag should have been thrown even if they werent sure.

asamford · 09-21-2004, 01:10 PM

game.set.vick

twins15 · 09-21-2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleEye_0

Actually I would say a usually piss poor defense is the main reason. and WTF is up with the Vikings not challenging that Owens touchdown (incompletion)? It was close enough where that red flag should have been thrown even if they werent sure.

I wish I knew.

BasicGuy · 09-21-2004, 11:17 PM

Hey Twins Is Donovan now the #1 contender for MVP?? Since he does have a higher QB rateing and also has 6 TD's just like Culpepper but unlike Culpepper doesn't have a Int yet or 3 fumbles.

And this Is comeing from a Giants fan who wanted to see the Eagles get a loss in that game against the Vikes.

twins15 · 09-21-2004, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasicGuy

Hey Twins Is Donovan now the #1 contender for MVP?? Since he does have a higher QB rateing and also has 6 TD's just like Culpepper but unlike Culpepper doesn't have a Int yet or 3 fumbles.

And this Is comeing from a Giants fan who wanted to see the Eagles get a loss in that game against the Vikes.

Right now, yes. My thinking was more over the whole season, I think Daunte will emerge as the MVP, but at this moment, certainly I would take Donovan over Culpepper for the first 2 games. I'll tell you what though, Daunte played a whale of the game being that he was under constant pressure all night.

EagleEye_0 · 09-21-2004, 11:51 PM

Curtis Martin is the MVP right now.

BasicGuy · 09-22-2004, 12:20 AM

I'll tell you one thing that you can take to the bank this year....The MVP will not be from my team this year(Giants)

But there building for the future....And I sure hope he was worth It.

crackpott · 09-22-2004, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasicGuy

Hey Twins Is Donovan now the #1 contender for MVP?? Since he does have a higher QB rateing and also has 6 TD's just like Culpepper but unlike Culpepper doesn't have a Int yet or 3 fumbles.

And this Is comeing from a Giants fan who wanted to see the Eagles get a loss in that game against the Vikes.

Actually, if you include his running TD, McNabb has 7. He won me some money last week for being the best player of the week (tied with culpepper, so we split it), and I almost won again from him this week (he lost by one fantasy point to Aaron Brooks). I expected Priest Holmes to be my money maker, as McNabb has never been close, but this year two weeks in a row...

Nice start, Donovan.

keenejee · 09-22-2004, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasicGuy

Hey how many SuperBowls has Marino won???

.

Yeah that guy's overrated and sux too

Moot point there my friend. Oh also, they played in the NFC championship a few years ago and got romped by your mighty Giants who failed to beat Baltimore. Guess those Giants just sucked.

The Vikes tried to win with pure offense, but now are getting the defensive points of winning. They're very young on defense, and I would think in 2or3 years maximum, we'll start talking about the Vikes defense alot, and probably how they're(the Vikes) the best team in the NFL.

1 thing I hate about the NFL. People change their views week to week on teams early. Last week it was Joe Gibbs is God because WAS won. Now everyone doesn't know what's up in WAS b/c well, they lost to the GIANTS? Or maybe the Giants aren't so bad after all? Or maybe the Giants and Skins just suck.

This week, I predict that when the Cowboys win and go 2-1 everyone's going to be start talking about them Boys and Parcells. As well as when Baltimore goes 2-1 and everyone's start talking playoffs and division again even after that thumpin in week 1.

One thing I know for sure, it's not "okay" to lose, but just because say the Ravens lose to the Browns in week 1 doesn't mean they now get the label by the media and people of "what's wrong in Baltimore". I got sick of hearing that for a week.

By the way, I'm a Bucs fan and it's painful to see us lose 16-10, 10-6. Sad thing is, we could only win about 5or6 games and still be in the top 5 in points given up. At the same time, we'll most likely be in the 25-30's range of points scored. Simms-n-Clayton...all the way!

Vezna31 · 09-24-2004, 02:21 PM

If they keep playing the way they are, it will come down to McNabb or Brady, and pitted against each other in the Superbowl. GO EAGLES!!!

twins15 · 10-12-2004, 12:20 AM

5 more TD for Culpepper yesterday. That means 13 TD and 1 INT on the year. Not to mention he is completing like 73% of his passes, and his O-Line has sucked since Rosenthal got hurt. Decent.

Vezna31 · 10-12-2004, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twins15

5 more TD for Culpepper yesterday. That means 13 TD and 1 INT on the year. Not to mention he is completing like 73% of his passes, and his O-Line has sucked since Rosenthal got hurt. Decent.

Yeah, he having an awesome year so far. Too bad the Eagles have a better TEAM

crackpott · 10-12-2004, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twins15

5 more TD for Culpepper yesterday. That means 13 TD and 1 INT on the year. Not to mention he is completing like 73% of his passes, and his O-Line has sucked since Rosenthal got hurt. Decent.

That's not fair - McNabb's in a bye week.

twins15 · 10-12-2004, 12:41 AM

Culpepper's QB rating after 4 games is 126. Amazing.

twins15 · 10-13-2004, 06:26 PM

I know ESPN's experts aren't that good, but I thought this was interesting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/s...tion2004/week6

09-16-2004, 06:45 PM	#42
BasicGuy Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ND Posts: 478	Hey how many SuperBowls have the Vikes won??? Better yet when was the last time they made It the big game?? No matter how great Moss Is my point Is his baggage(Precieved or other wise) and cost Is not worth It In my mind....for what the Vikes are paying Moss they could of spread It around a little and In my mind been a better\more balanced team. You say you never seen a WR open the offense like Moss fine..Thats great when the Offense Is fireing on all cylinders....But when they have a bad day as any offense will It comes down to the Defense and theres no doupt In my mind this is the Vikes weakness year in and year out as of late. And when a team lives and dies by there offense..They normaly don't win Superbowls. Last edited by BasicGuy; 09-16-2004 at 06:50 PM.

09-21-2004, 01:51 AM	#44
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	Ah, Donovan... I knew you just needed a good receiver, if only to draw coverage.... __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

10-12-2004, 12:20 AM	#56
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	5 more TD for Culpepper yesterday. That means 13 TD and 1 INT on the year. Not to mention he is completing like 73% of his passes, and his O-Line has sucked since Rosenthal got hurt. Decent. __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

10-12-2004, 12:41 AM	#59
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	Culpepper's QB rating after 4 games is 126. Amazing. __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

10-13-2004, 06:26 PM	#60
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	I know ESPN's experts aren't that good, but I thought this was interesting. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/s...tion2004/week6 __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

09-16-2004, 06:27 PM	#41
sebastian0622 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,465	I haven't heard anything about Moss' attitude in, what, a season and a half or more? As far as I'm concerned it's no longer an issue. I don't ever see him do something to hurt his team...I wouldn't have said that two years ago. He is, by far, the best receiver in the NFL. When he's on the field, the rest of the Vikings offense plays 10 on 9 nearly every play--and sometimes 10 on 8. If you're the safety to his side (or if you're the FS and the SS is in the box), you know you don't really have deep leverage. You have deep Moss. That's why the other Vikes receivers get so many long gains. They just have to beat their guy one on one if they put their SS in the box or in playaction if they get too aggressive with him vs the run. And so Vikes' opponents don't want to put their SS in the box or let him get too aggressive. Then it's 7 on 7 in the run game. In fifteen years of watching football, I have never seen a single non-QB player open up an offense as much as Moss. Ever.

09-21-2004, 02:13 AM	#46
EagleEye_0 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,426	Actually I would say a usually piss poor defense is the main reason. and WTF is up with the Vikings not challenging that Owens touchdown (incompletion)? It was close enough where that red flag should have been thrown even if they werent sure.

09-21-2004, 01:10 PM	#47
asamford Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snellville, Georgia Posts: 1,769	game.set.vick

09-21-2004, 11:17 PM	#49
BasicGuy Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ND Posts: 478	Hey Twins Is Donovan now the #1 contender for MVP?? Since he does have a higher QB rateing and also has 6 TD's just like Culpepper but unlike Culpepper doesn't have a Int yet or 3 fumbles. And this Is comeing from a Giants fan who wanted to see the Eagles get a loss in that game against the Vikes.

09-21-2004, 11:51 PM	#51
EagleEye_0 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,426	Curtis Martin is the MVP right now.

09-22-2004, 12:20 AM	#52
BasicGuy Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ND Posts: 478	I'll tell you one thing that you can take to the bank this year....The MVP will not be from my team this year(Giants) But there building for the future....And I sure hope he was worth It.

09-24-2004, 02:21 PM	#55
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,990	If they keep playing the way they are, it will come down to McNabb or Brady, and pitted against each other in the Superbowl. GO EAGLES!!!