GOD NO! Source: Nuggets, Nets talking K-Mart trade

[JerseyPride]

ESPN.com

The Denver Nuggets ramped up their pursuit of Nets restricted free agent Kenyon Martin on Sunday, engaging in day-long sign-and-trade discussions with New Jersey, league sources told ESPN Insider Chad Ford on Sunday evening.

Nets GM Rod Thorn is trying to get Denver forward Nene in return for Martin, but a source in Denver told Ford on Sunday that the team would not give him up. Instead, expect the focus of the trade discussions to center on the Nuggets other 2002 lottery pick, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, who fell out of favor with head coach Jeff Bzdelik last year and played sparingly. The 7-foot-1 forward is just 20 years old and has the potential to play both the three and the four.

While sources told Ford that a sign-and-trade is Denver's preferred method to land Martin, the Nuggets have assured Martin that they will give him a max offer sheet, expected to be for six years and in excess of $80 million, if a trade cannot be completed by July 14 -- the first day free agents can officially sign. Extending an offer sheet, though, would be a "last resort" for the Nuggets, as once Martin signs an offer sheet, the sign-and-trade option disappears.

Martin, who received a similar offer from the Atlanta Hawks on Thursday night, told the Nuggets that he would accept their offer over Atlanta's if a trade does not occur, a Denver source told Ford.

ESPN.com's Marc Stein reported Saturday that the Nuggets had decided to extend an offer to Martin on Sunday morning, in the hope that it would spark a new round of serious sign-and-trade talks with the Nets.

Martin has maintained throughout the process that his first choice is to re-sign with the Nets. New Jersey, however, is balking at the money Martin is commanding and is actively in discussions with the Nuggets.

The Nuggets apparently prefer the sign-and-trade option because they fear New Jersey would match a offer sheet to Martin, and would take the full 15-day period to official match, which would tie up Denver's available cap space and would freeze them out of making other moves in the free agent market.

-Say it ain't so. Please, say it ain't so. Just give the man his damn money!

This trade doesn't make much sense for Denver. They already have an incredibly strong frontcourt in Marcus Camby and Nene, and signing Martin to an extravagant overpaid contract only seems to be dealing in excess. They could put their cap space to much greater use, such as finding an actual viable off guard.

[andjbock]

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

This trade doesn't make much sense for Denver. They already have an incredibly strong frontcourt in Marcus Camby and Nene, and signing Martin to an extravagant overpaid contract only seems to be dealing in excess. They could put their cap space to much greater use, such as finding an actual viable off guard.

I think it makes plenty of sense. Denver gets an All-Star, former #1 pick, and a player who a definite prescence on the court. Nene is an emerging player, but I don't see him as having the potential that Martin is still just touching on. Nene gets into too much foul trouble too.

Nene is five years younger, and already approaching Martin's level. Nene hasn't quite reached Martin's ability in creating his shot opportunities, but he is far more efficient when he does shoot. On the defensive end, both are stellar and are an immediate presence. I'm not sure where the foul trouble issue comes into play. Hilario averaged 3.6 PF in 32.5 MPG. Martin averaged 3.5 PF in 34.6 MPG. It's a negligible difference. When you have a comparable and far cheaper alternative in Hilario, this signing/trade simply doesn't make sense. It boils down to the fact that you are overpaying a marginal star at best who barely ranks in the top 10 in his position with a max contract. It doesn't seem like smart business to me, especially when you have areas on your roster with far greater need.

[phenom]

<---- wonders if Martin still thinks the Nets are a better team than the Pistons, as he stated following an 89-71 loss to Detroit late in the regular season.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

Nene is five years younger, and already approaching Martin's level. Nene hasn't quite reached Martin's ability in creating his shot opportunities, but he is far more efficient when he does shoot. On the defensive end, both are stellar and are an immediate presence. I'm not sure where the foul trouble issue comes into play. Hilario averaged 3.6 PF in 32.5 MPG. Martin averaged 3.5 PF in 34.6 MPG. It's a negligible difference. When you have a comparable and far cheaper alternative in Hilario, this signing/trade simply doesn't make sense. It boils down to the fact that you are overpaying a marginal star at best who barely ranks in the top 10 in his position with a max contract. It doesn't seem like smart business to me, especially when you have areas on your roster with far greater need.

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

This trade doesn't make much sense for Denver. They already have an incredibly strong frontcourt in Marcus Camby and Nene

You make strong points for Nene, but don't make any point for Marcus Camby. While I don't envision Nene being able to play the no. 5, I think Kenyon Martin is better than Marcus Camby. He's probaly not worth a maximum value contract, but he's worth more than Marcus Camby

Originally Posted by Jordan

You make strong points for Nene, but don't make any point for Marcus Camby. While I don't envision Nene being able to play the no. 5, I think Kenyon Martin is better than Marcus Camby. He's probaly not worth a maximum value contract, but he's worth more than Marcus Camby

Camby is a center. Hilario can switch occasionally, but can't handle an entire season at the position. Martin can't play center, period.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

Camby is a center. Hilario can switch occasionally, but can't handle an entire season at the position. Martin can't play center, period.

I know that. I couldn't envision him staying on the team though if they were to get K-Mart. Unless Camby or Nene is a team player (i.e. bench-warmers), I doubt this sign-and-trade will happen

Exactly why I said this trade doesn't make sense. Denver already resigned Camby to a 6 year/60 million contract this offseason. He's not going anywhere. Hilario still has two more years in Denver under his rookie contract. There is just no room for Martin.

[Akrobat]

Call me idiotic (please don't) but this trade will end up benefiting the Nets long term. Tskitishvili is an outstanding player from Euro (think a poor man's Nowitzki) and K-Mart, as I'm sure some people agree/disagree, was made an All-Star by Jason Kidd. He will not be worth the contract the Nuggets will give him, while Tskitishvili will be a cheap productive player for the next few years. In terms of skill Martin is better, but the difference in money will be the kicker.

[Dan12278]

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

This trade doesn't make much sense for Denver. They already have an incredibly strong frontcourt in Marcus Camby and Nene

If you forgot already, Camby is the definition of Injury-Prone. He gets some sort of injury virtually every single year. He has only played more than 60 games in half of his career (4 out of 8 years) and of those 4 years, 3 have been 63 games, still missing 19 in 3 considered "not injury riddled" seasons. It can never hurt to have an extra man in the front court, especially one with Camby.

[GoldenGlove]

I wish they hadn't signed Camby for so long. If anyone should go its him. Otherwise, the trade shouldn't happen and it probably won't. I still wish they had kept Nelson.

[yankeesrule]

true it probably was a mistake signing up camby for 6 years but hey, maybe he'll finally stay healthy, griffey almost was doin it.

as far as jameer nelson, they didn't have a spot for him. with andre miller and earl boykins already on the roster nelson would have been their #3 pg.

on the real topic of this post, i've seen kmart first hand a number of times(live maybe 20 minutes from continental) and he's very dominant. I'm not sure how much of that is just kidd making him look good but when he plays hard, he's very strong and athletic. hard to complain with a guy that goes 17 and 10 and is still rather young.

Originally Posted by Dan12278

If you forgot already, Camby is the definition of Injury-Prone. He gets some sort of injury virtually every single year. He has only played more than 60 games in half of his career (4 out of 8 years) and of those 4 years, 3 have been 63 games, still missing 19 in 3 considered "not injury riddled" seasons. It can never hurt to have an extra man in the front court, especially one with Camby.

I don't think it's wise to give a max contract to who is essentially is a third wheel. Yes, given Camby's injury history, you would like to find a someone who could fill in given the need, but it should come fairly cheap and preferably someone who could play center full time. By signing Martin, you would have to move Hilario over to center, his unnatural position, if an injury to Camby did occur.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by JerseyPride

Just give the man his damn money!

Spoken like a true Yankees fan.

[CMH]

I think this works for the Nuggets.

They have so much cap space and need to spend it. They need to spend it because in a couple of years they'd be tied up to paying the guys they already have on the roster and thus having no cap flexibility.

By adding a player of Martin's caliber (even if overpriced), they add another player that they can tie up when their cap space become unflexible. They can still sign Nene and Anthony to whatever they want and jump the cap.

If they keep holding on to their money they'll end up spending it on the players they already have and have one/two less players.

Smart move because Martin is a good player. They might not have room for him, but they needed to spend the cash for the future.

[JerseyPride]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Spoken like a true Yankees fan.

True, I am a yankee fan, but the Nets are being very cheap here. He is arguablly the best power foward in the East right now. He is still very young, and will only contiue to get better. Rodney Rodgers just opted out of his contact, Tamary Slay went to the Bobcats, and they didnt even have a first round pick. They have done all these cost cutting messures, for what? Just so Ratner can build his dream arena? Whose going to go to that arena to see a team who sucks.

[yankeesrule]

problem with the nets is, even now when they have a good team no one goes to see them play. even 3 years ago when they finally made the playoffs and went on that run, the first round they only sold maybe 2/3 the arena and maybe 75% for the second round and it hasn't been much different since then. their attendance is always among the lower half of the league, they're like the expos of basketball.

Originally Posted by YankeePride

I think this works for the Nuggets.

They have so much cap space and need to spend it. They need to spend it because in a couple of years they'd be tied up to paying the guys they already have on the roster and thus having no cap flexibility.

By adding a player of Martin's caliber (even if overpriced), they add another player that they can tie up when their cap space become unflexible. They can still sign Nene and Anthony to whatever they want and jump the cap.

If they keep holding on to their money they'll end up spending it on the players they already have and have one/two less players.

Smart move because Martin is a good player. They might not have room for him, but they needed to spend the cash for the future.

Spending money simply for the purpose of spending it is never a smart move. An owner still has to be financially responsible for his team. The Denver Nuggets aren't and will never be the New York Knicks. They need to keep a modest payroll in order to break even or make a profit. The two main goals of any owner are to win, and secondly, to make money. The thing is those two variables are almost always linked. Winning makes you more money. Spending money wisely gets you winning. They are in direct correlation.

What you are suggesting now is spending money, which is fantastic, except it isn't money put to use judiciously. Eighty million dollars spent on a slight roster upgrade that will most likely be eliminated in one or two years as Hilario progresses as a player doesn't make sense. If in a few years, the Nuggets find themselves in a tight hole financially, I certainly wouldn't want to be the GM who couldn't resign Carmelo Anthony because he signed Kenyon Martin three years ago to a max contract.

[CMH]

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

Spending money simply for the purpose of spending it is never a smart move. An owner still has to be financially responsible for his team. The Denver Nuggets aren't and will never be the New York Knicks. They need to keep a modest payroll in order to break even or make a profit. The two main goals of any owner are to win, and secondly, to make money. The thing is those two variables are almost always linked. Winning makes you more money. Spending money wisely gets you winning. They are in direct correlation.

What you are suggesting now is spending money, which is fantastic, except it isn't money put to use judiciously. Eighty million dollars spent on a slight roster upgrade that will most likely be eliminated in one or two years as Hilario progresses as a player doesn't make sense. If in a few years, the Nuggets find themselves in a tight hole financially, I certainly wouldn't want to be the GM who couldn't resign Carmelo Anthony because he signed Kenyon Martin three years ago to a max contract.

You already said it.

The chance they are taking is that the addition of Martin will help them continue to win games, draw crowds and make more money. If that's all accomplished then they lose nothing when it comes time to sign Anthony and Nene.

Simply put, they have the money so they should spend it.