Giambi, it's really sad... - Page 8

mlyons · 07-09-2004, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Single A Rookie

Really... that is what everyone thinks... that this is the road baseball should take.... man... I hate to think where this world is headed with people that are so calous towards others... in this case, in regard a sport...

No, a number of people in this thread (including me) have said that we are in favor of steroid bans and the andro ban specifically. The point is, we can't hold it against someone for using these substances before they were banned. Using them after they're banned is a completely different matter, as then it's cheating.

Dargone · 07-10-2004, 10:45 PM

Guuuhhh...

AnotherAlias · 07-11-2004, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

This is my most successful thread.

I'm very proud of you.

Now let's get this conversation back on track....anybody?

1981 - Pope John Paul II was shot in an assassination attempt by Turkish-born Mehmet Ali Agca. Although wounded badly, he made a quick recovery and soon thereafter resumed his regular travel schedule. The attack gave birth to the infamous "Pope Mobile," a modified Range Rover with the back converted to a large box made of bullet-proof glass which allowed him to ride along, but also stand up and wave to the crowds.

President Ronald Reagan was also shot and gravely wounded by a lone gunman, John Hinckley who was quoted as attempting to impress the actress Jodi Foster. Although the president recovered fully, his press secretary, Jim Brady was wounded in the head and has remained partially paralyzed to this day. Hinckley remains committed to a mental institution.

In the first game of an April 19th doubleheader, the Oakland Athletics set a Major League mark for most consecutive wins at the start of the season after running their record to 11-0 with a 6-1 win over the Seattle Mariners.

Los Angeles Dodgers ace Fernando Valenzuela became the first rookie ever to win a Cy Young Award after edging the Cincinnati Reds Tom Seaver 70-67 for National League honors. He also became the first rookie since the Cleveland Indians' Herb Score in 1955 to lead his league in strikeouts with one-hundred eighty.

Phillies third baseman Mike Schmidt won his second consecutive National League MVP Award, joining Ernie Banks and Joe Morgan as the only National League players to win the citation back-to-back. The perennial Philadelphia All-Star hit .316 with thirty-one home runs and added ninety-one RBIs despite the abbreviated season.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 07-11-2004, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

This is my most successful thread.

You have a really strange definition of "successful."

mlyons · 07-11-2004, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

I'm very proud of you.

Now let's get this conversation back on track....anybody?

What would on track be at this point?

Skipaway · 07-11-2004, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

What would on track be at this point?

Yankees suck and Jeter blows.

Skipaway · 07-11-2004, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

You have a really strange definition of "successful."

Among threads in Talk Sports started by YankeePride, this one got the most responses and views.

Or, it's unlikely but possible that YankeePride = Single A Rookie. Then I'd say it's even more successful than Denton True.

mlyons · 07-11-2004, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Yankees suck and Jeter blows.

Oh, right. I forgot.

CMH · 07-11-2004, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Among threads in Talk Sports started by YankeePride, this one got the most responses and views.

Or, it's unlikely but possible that YankeePride = Single A Rookie. Then I'd say it's even more successful than Denton True.

Right, that's exactly what I meant by "successful" (a joke, really).

But, I am not Single A Rookie. I don't even know who Single A Rookie is. This might even be the first time someone assumes I have an alias on this board.

Success comes in many forms.

CMH · 07-11-2004, 11:07 PM

Back on point.

Giambi is an all-star?

mlyons · 07-11-2004, 11:24 PM

It's all those damn Yankee fanboys who voted for him. Wait a sec . . . I'm a Yankee fanboy, and I voted for Paul Konerko! What's going on here?

Seriously, there aren't a lot of big name first basemen having good years in the AL this season. Giambi won because fans recognised his name ahead of Ken Harvey, Konerko, Scott Hatteberg, or Mark Teixeira, all of whom are having better seasons than Giambi, but none of whom have any name recognition for the casual fan.

CMH · 07-11-2004, 11:30 PM

That many number of votes couldn't only be attributed to Yankee fans. It's obvious (and you mention this) that other fans also voted for Giambi.

You're right that there aren't too many recognizable names in the 1st Base ballot, but it still bothers me that fans will choose to ignore a player's season when choosing an All-Star.

And yes, I understand that this is for the fans. They want to see the true All-Stars of the league. But, Giambi has been slipping for three years now. He isn't exactly the same Giambi that was hitting .320, 40 HR, 120 RBI in Oakland. He's more of a .260, 40 HR, 110 RBI guy now. Still impressive "power" numbers, but his OBP, AVG are down (I understand the casual fan doesn't care much for this).

But, couldn't we agree that SportsCenter helps fans identify with a player? Knowing this and knowing that Giambi has either sucked or been hurt this year (and last year), shouldn't fans have recognized another 1st baseman by now?

Skipaway · 07-11-2004, 11:46 PM

All Star game final balloting:

Yankees:
Jorge Posada, NY Yankees 1,565,305
Jason Giambi, NY Yankees 1,784,443
Enrique Wilson, NY Yankees 424,160
Derek Jeter, NY Yankees 2,052,880
Alex Rodriguez, NY Yankees 2,915,901
Hideki Matsui, NY Yankees 1,855,118
Gary Sheffield, NY Yankees 1,688,921
Bernie Williams, NY Yankees 1,017,844

There is definitely some Yankees fan factors.

1B:
1. Jason Giambi, NY Yankees 1,784,443
2. Frank Thomas, Chi White Sox 978,623
3. Carlos Delgado, Toronto 717,341
4. Kevin Millar, Boston 653,223
5. Mark Teixeira, Texas 645,154
6. Rafael Palmeiro, Baltimore 621,733
7. Mike Sweeney, Kansas City 422,490
8. Tino Martinez, Tampa Bay 420,185

Delgado, Millar, and Sweeney are all worse selections than Giambi, and those three combined got more votes than Giambi.

maddog24g · 07-12-2004, 12:13 AM

OMG i think i just died reading this whole thread.

Long_Long_Name · 07-12-2004, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

It's all those damn Yankee fanboys who voted for him. Wait a sec . . . I'm a Yankee fanboy, and I voted for Paul Konerko! What's going on here?

Seriously, there aren't a lot of big name first basemen having good years in the AL this season. Giambi won because fans recognised his name ahead of Ken Harvey, Konerko, Scott Hatteberg, or Mark Teixeira, all of whom are having better seasons than Giambi, but none of whom have any name recognition for the casual fan.

Right, and Frank Thomas, perhaps the best hitter of the 1990s (and 2004 league leader in OBP, 2nd in OPS), isn't recognizable.

sebastian0622 · 07-12-2004, 01:54 AM

I like cake.

btw, you can't discount the far east vote. The Yanks were the team to corner that market by taking Matsui, so what team's players are voted on most by our Japanese fans do you think? And if you think American fanboys are bad...these fans made Matsui an all-star last year when he was merely an average to above average OF.

CMH · 07-12-2004, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian0622

I like cake.

btw, you can't discount the far east vote. The Yanks were the team to corner that market by taking Matsui, so what team's players are voted on most by our Japanese fans do you think? And if you think American fanboys are bad...these fans made Matsui an all-star last year when he was merely an average to above average OF.

I know! At least he didn't win the MVP in his rookie year. Now that would be ridiculous.

clutch · 07-12-2004, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian0622

I like cake.

btw, you can't discount the far east vote. The Yanks were the team to corner that market by taking Matsui, so what team's players are voted on most by our Japanese fans do you think? And if you think American fanboys are bad...these fans made Matsui an all-star last year when he was merely an average to above average OF.

I may have to check my facts, but I am pretty sure Ichiro was in the League before Matsui, so to say they conered the market is saying too much.

Skipaway · 07-12-2004, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian0622

And if you think American fanboys are bad...these fans made Matsui an all-star last year when he was merely an average to above average OF.

Perhaps you should consider the press coverage they got in Japan. All they got are news about Japanese players, and the Yankees or the Mariners games. If you lives in Japan, how'd you know Matsui is just above average since he made the primetime highlights daily? It's not like they got media with complete American sports coverage.

Also, just as in the States, fans often vote by how great the player has been ( Cal Ripken Jr.?). In the memory of Japanese fans, Matsui is still the player that dominated the Japanese Leagues.

sebastian0622 · 07-12-2004, 01:47 PM

Sure Ichiro was around first, but Matsui brought the more numerous following. Matsui was the Japanese Barry Bonds to Ichiro's Garciaparra.

I don't need you to justify the phenomena of this to me, Skipaway. I'm not trying to bash the Japanese fans, just trying to point out they have an impact on all-star balloting and provide an example as to how much of an impact that audience can have. Justified or not, it exists! And if you can get some of that vote--like Giambi probably did--it can help your cause.

But on a different note, they can get great sports coverage in Japan. Satellite TV, internet (you can watch almost all games on MLB.com btw), etc.

07-10-2004, 10:45 PM	#142
Dargone Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Interwebs Posts: 2,862	Guuuhhh... __________________ I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell

07-11-2004, 11:24 PM	#151
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	It's all those damn Yankee fanboys who voted for him. Wait a sec . . . I'm a Yankee fanboy, and I voted for Paul Konerko! What's going on here? Seriously, there aren't a lot of big name first basemen having good years in the AL this season. Giambi won because fans recognised his name ahead of Ken Harvey, Konerko, Scott Hatteberg, or Mark Teixeira, all of whom are having better seasons than Giambi, but none of whom have any name recognition for the casual fan. __________________ Things can always be worse.

07-11-2004, 11:46 PM	#153
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	All Star game final balloting: Yankees: Jorge Posada, NY Yankees 1,565,305 Jason Giambi, NY Yankees 1,784,443 Enrique Wilson, NY Yankees 424,160 Derek Jeter, NY Yankees 2,052,880 Alex Rodriguez, NY Yankees 2,915,901 Hideki Matsui, NY Yankees 1,855,118 Gary Sheffield, NY Yankees 1,688,921 Bernie Williams, NY Yankees 1,017,844 There is definitely some Yankees fan factors. 1B: 1. Jason Giambi, NY Yankees 1,784,443 2. Frank Thomas, Chi White Sox 978,623 3. Carlos Delgado, Toronto 717,341 4. Kevin Millar, Boston 653,223 5. Mark Teixeira, Texas 645,154 6. Rafael Palmeiro, Baltimore 621,733 7. Mike Sweeney, Kansas City 422,490 8. Tino Martinez, Tampa Bay 420,185 Delgado, Millar, and Sweeney are all worse selections than Giambi, and those three combined got more votes than Giambi. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

07-11-2004, 11:07 PM	#150
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Back on point. Giambi is an all-star?

07-11-2004, 11:30 PM	#152
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	That many number of votes couldn't only be attributed to Yankee fans. It's obvious (and you mention this) that other fans also voted for Giambi. You're right that there aren't too many recognizable names in the 1st Base ballot, but it still bothers me that fans will choose to ignore a player's season when choosing an All-Star. And yes, I understand that this is for the fans. They want to see the true All-Stars of the league. But, Giambi has been slipping for three years now. He isn't exactly the same Giambi that was hitting .320, 40 HR, 120 RBI in Oakland. He's more of a .260, 40 HR, 110 RBI guy now. Still impressive "power" numbers, but his OBP, AVG are down (I understand the casual fan doesn't care much for this). But, couldn't we agree that SportsCenter helps fans identify with a player? Knowing this and knowing that Giambi has either sucked or been hurt this year (and last year), shouldn't fans have recognized another 1st baseman by now?

07-12-2004, 12:13 AM	#154
maddog24g Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 47	OMG i think i just died reading this whole thread.

07-12-2004, 01:54 AM	#156
sebastian0622 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,465	I like cake. btw, you can't discount the far east vote. The Yanks were the team to corner that market by taking Matsui, so what team's players are voted on most by our Japanese fans do you think? And if you think American fanboys are bad...these fans made Matsui an all-star last year when he was merely an average to above average OF.

07-12-2004, 01:47 PM	#160
sebastian0622 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,465	Sure Ichiro was around first, but Matsui brought the more numerous following. Matsui was the Japanese Barry Bonds to Ichiro's Garciaparra. I don't need you to justify the phenomena of this to me, Skipaway. I'm not trying to bash the Japanese fans, just trying to point out they have an impact on all-star balloting and provide an example as to how much of an impact that audience can have. Justified or not, it exists! And if you can get some of that vote--like Giambi probably did--it can help your cause. But on a different note, they can get great sports coverage in Japan. Satellite TV, internet (you can watch almost all games on MLB.com btw), etc.