Do you want to argue the call?

tomolak · 07-01-2004, 08:39 PM

To me, it sounds more like "Let's kick you out of the game, shall we?"

I'm wondering whether anyone noticed any advantage you would have if you protest the call or any disadvantage if you don't. My assumption was that if you don't, the players might get upset and their performance suffers in the next ining or two; on the other hand, if you do, your players are encouraged and they might play better for a while. However, I actually didn't notice much difference if I did or didn't jump out and argue. So I'm more and more reluctant to say 'yes' to argue the call.

But sometimes, the game engine seems eager to kick me out and pops this question in 3 times within 2 inings. Then I would feel guilty to my players and decide to accept the fate of being ejected.

BTW, after a manager is ejected, should he still be allowed to make pitching changes or pinch hittings? He is still watching the ballgame on TV, right? And he is always able to pass his command into the dugout through someone. Or he can wear a fake beard and sneak into the dugout, can't he?

Karros270 · 07-01-2004, 08:50 PM

I never argue anymore. I don't see the pont. I don't like losing control over the game and it doesn't seem to motivate my team anymore when I get kicked out, on fact I think they use it as an excuse to slack off.

sporr · 07-02-2004, 11:01 AM

To my knowledge, arguing calls won't have any positive effect on team performance.

renn · 07-02-2004, 11:44 AM

I agree that the only thing that happens is that you lose control over your team. I have not noticed any effect on the team either way so I never argue calls anymore. I also agree that when a manager is ejected he would still have control over player moves, etc. from the clubhouse. The possible effects on team moral and moves implemented by an ejected manager should be reflected in the game.

JimboJones · 07-02-2004, 02:45 PM

Why does a real manager bother to argue calls? How often does an ump reverse his decision based on the manager's argument.

Two reasons I can think of:

1) To try to intimidate the ump and possibly gain a "makeup" call in his favor later in the game.

2) To show support for his players, and therefore motivate them a little.

I haven't seen any benefit to arguing calls in OOTP, but there should be some type of risk/reward system. For example, the risk is being ejected, and the reward is a possible slight boost in the team's performance or maybe a close call in your favor later in the game.

HolyCow98 · 07-02-2004, 02:55 PM

I agree I don't think arguing has any impact at all in the game.

I'll stick up for one of my players if he decides to argue....but that just feels right in my imagination. In gaming terms it just runs the risk of me losing control over my team.

I tend to try and play the game with more imagination and less I'm going to beat this sim or video game....

Rizon · 07-02-2004, 03:33 PM

I use to argue most of the time, resulting in about 13 ejections a year. Now I don't argue as much, because I don't like the way the AI handles my bullpen.

And it does seem like the computer wants to boot you by dangling the repetitive "Do you want to argue" carrot.

jaxmagicman · 07-02-2004, 03:45 PM

Man why is this the first thread about this subject?

Use the search function

DiMaggio5CF · 07-02-2004, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolyCow98

I agree I don't think arguing has any impact at all in the game.

I'll stick up for one of my players if he decides to argue....but that just feels right in my imagination. In gaming terms it just runs the risk of me losing control over my team.

I tend to try and play the game with more imagination and less I'm going to beat this sim or video game....

I think a nice feature would be that, by taking the option to argue, you can get tossed out to save your player. The way it is now, it seems like either the player gets tossed out before you can argue or he doesn't get tossed out at all.

You should get a statement telling you that the argument is getting heated and then you can either let them go and take your chances or go out there and risk getting booted to save your player.

Of course, your player won't always get tossed if you don't go out, you won't always get tossed if you do go out, and you getting tossed won't always keep your player from getting tossed, but the majority of the time it should work like that.

That way, at least you would stand to gain something from arguing.

jaxmagicman · 07-02-2004, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiMaggio5CF

I think a nice feature would be that, by taking the option to argue, you can get tossed out to save your player. The way it is now, it seems like either the player gets tossed out before you can argue or he doesn't get tossed out at all.

You should get a statement telling you that the argument is getting heated and then you can either let them go and take your chances or go out there and risk getting booted to save your player.

Of course, your player won't always get tossed if you don't go out, you won't always get tossed if you do go out, and you getting tossed won't always keep your player from getting tossed, but the majority of the time it should work like that.

That way, at least you would stand to gain something from arguing.

What an original thought. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...?searchid=5468

Draft Dodger · 07-02-2004, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

What an original thought. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...?searchid=5468

there's no need to be a prick about it.

the argue feature, to me, is annoying and needless.

Rizon · 07-02-2004, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

What an original thought. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...?searchid=5468

You know what Jax .... DELETED BY HENRY

twins15 · 07-02-2004, 05:19 PM

The only time I argue now is if I am losing and the game looks hopeless, and I want to get kicked out.

WWBL Commissioner · 07-02-2004, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimboJones

Why does a real manager bother to argue calls? How often does an ump reverse his decision based on the manager's argument.

Two reasons I can think of:

1) To try to intimidate the ump and possibly gain a "makeup" call in his favor later in the game.

2) To show support for his players, and therefore motivate them a little.

I haven't seen any benefit to arguing calls in OOTP, but there should be some type of risk/reward system. For example, the risk is being ejected, and the reward is a possible slight boost in the team's performance or maybe a close call in your favor later in the game.

One other reason is to keep the player form getting run by the ump. It's a lot better for Dusty Baker to go get tossed than to let Sammy get run for questioning a call

maddux31holytrinity · 07-02-2004, 06:02 PM

nah if im losing by alot ill just argue to get kicked out. no need to keep watching when im down 13-3 in the 5th

goPhils · 07-02-2004, 06:30 PM

The only thing I would like to change about arguing the call is that I would like mouse buttons to pop up for Y/N instead of having to push the button on the keyboard. Same goes for advancing runners. It is really annoying to manage the entire game on the mouse and then pull out the keyboard once or twice a game.

Dan

Dan Theman · 07-03-2004, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goPhils

The only thing I would like to change about arguing the call is that I would like mouse buttons to pop up for Y/N instead of having to push the button on the keyboard. Same goes for advancing runners. It is really annoying to manage the entire game on the mouse and then pull out the keyboard once or twice a game.

Dan

As another Dan, I'll have to second Dan's input here (as well as DiMaggio's). In its current format, the "argue call" option appears to be useless. We won't know until we hear from the powers that be *cough, cough, manual, cough* whether this is the case or not.

PS - and yeah, I'm being patient. I just couldn't resist a good-natured dig

originalgamer · 07-03-2004, 09:56 PM

I just started a new thread before I saw this one. For the record it bothers me alot. Simply useless.

Henry · 07-03-2004, 10:06 PM

I would doubt this will be in the manual. As far as I know, this is one of those items Markus has chosen to keep secret - and none of us knows if there is a cause-and-effect or not.

WWBL Commissioner · 07-04-2004, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

I would doubt this will be in the manual. As far as I know, this is one of those items Markus has chosen to keep secret - and none of us knows if there is a cause-and-effect or not.

I tend to think that if Markus took the time to put it in the game it does something. I'm not saying it has some big hidden effect but I do think it changes something, maybe one call goes your way , maybe your players ratings get a little bump, but I do think Markus would not have added it at all if it didn't do anything

07-01-2004, 08:39 PM	#1
tomolak Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 104	Do you want to argue the call? To me, it sounds more like "Let's kick you out of the game, shall we?" I'm wondering whether anyone noticed any advantage you would have if you protest the call or any disadvantage if you don't. My assumption was that if you don't, the players might get upset and their performance suffers in the next ining or two; on the other hand, if you do, your players are encouraged and they might play better for a while. However, I actually didn't notice much difference if I did or didn't jump out and argue. So I'm more and more reluctant to say 'yes' to argue the call. But sometimes, the game engine seems eager to kick me out and pops this question in 3 times within 2 inings. Then I would feel guilty to my players and decide to accept the fate of being ejected. BTW, after a manager is ejected, should he still be allowed to make pitching changes or pinch hittings? He is still watching the ballgame on TV, right? And he is always able to pass his command into the dugout through someone. Or he can wear a fake beard and sneak into the dugout, can't he?

07-01-2004, 08:50 PM	#2
Karros270 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,392	I never argue anymore. I don't see the pont. I don't like losing control over the game and it doesn't seem to motivate my team anymore when I get kicked out, on fact I think they use it as an excuse to slack off. __________________ now everybody's praying...don't prey on me

07-02-2004, 02:45 PM	#5
JimboJones Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 210	Why does a real manager bother to argue calls? How often does an ump reverse his decision based on the manager's argument. Two reasons I can think of: 1) To try to intimidate the ump and possibly gain a "makeup" call in his favor later in the game. 2) To show support for his players, and therefore motivate them a little. I haven't seen any benefit to arguing calls in OOTP, but there should be some type of risk/reward system. For example, the risk is being ejected, and the reward is a possible slight boost in the team's performance or maybe a close call in your favor later in the game. Last edited by JimboJones; 07-02-2004 at 02:49 PM.

07-02-2004, 02:55 PM	#6
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	I agree I don't think arguing has any impact at all in the game. I'll stick up for one of my players if he decides to argue....but that just feels right in my imagination. In gaming terms it just runs the risk of me losing control over my team. I tend to try and play the game with more imagination and less I'm going to beat this sim or video game.... __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

07-02-2004, 03:33 PM	#7
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,370	I use to argue most of the time, resulting in about 13 ejections a year. Now I don't argue as much, because I don't like the way the AI handles my bullpen. And it does seem like the computer wants to boot you by dangling the repetitive "Do you want to argue" carrot. __________________ JML MILKSHAKES

07-02-2004, 11:01 AM	#3
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	To my knowledge, arguing calls won't have any positive effect on team performance.

07-02-2004, 11:44 AM	#4
renn Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 89	I agree that the only thing that happens is that you lose control over your team. I have not noticed any effect on the team either way so I never argue calls anymore. I also agree that when a manager is ejected he would still have control over player moves, etc. from the clubhouse. The possible effects on team moral and moves implemented by an ejected manager should be reflected in the game.

07-02-2004, 03:45 PM	#8
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	Man why is this the first thread about this subject? Use the search function __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

07-02-2004, 05:19 PM	#13
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	The only time I argue now is if I am losing and the game looks hopeless, and I want to get kicked out. __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

07-02-2004, 06:02 PM	#15
maddux31holytrinity Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 16	nah if im losing by alot ill just argue to get kicked out. no need to keep watching when im down 13-3 in the 5th

07-02-2004, 06:30 PM	#16
goPhils Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conshohocken, PA Posts: 13	The only thing I would like to change about arguing the call is that I would like mouse buttons to pop up for Y/N instead of having to push the button on the keyboard. Same goes for advancing runners. It is really annoying to manage the entire game on the mouse and then pull out the keyboard once or twice a game. Dan

07-03-2004, 09:56 PM	#18
originalgamer Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	I just started a new thread before I saw this one. For the record it bothers me alot. Simply useless.

07-03-2004, 10:06 PM	#19
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	I would doubt this will be in the manual. As far as I know, this is one of those items Markus has chosen to keep secret - and none of us knows if there is a cause-and-effect or not.