What to do with this STUD pitching prospect?

RayofHope · 07-02-2004, 08:35 PM

Okay, I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure out what to do with this pitching prospect of mine in the Jamaica League.

I don't like doing this, but I'm so split on what to do with him, I need some advice to mull over.

He's one of the best (top 3 any way you look at it) pitching prospects in the Jamaica League, and is my prize (even though I decided to build my team around young pitchers).

I promoted him before the scouts said he was ready based on his total domination of A Ball, mainly his WHIP and walks to strike outs ratio. Scouts have hardly stopped telling me he's not ready for AA, even when he was posting stellar numbers there. He's already shown he's amstered A ball, and that he can handle AA, but he got hit around a little bit at AA last year.

He is a 5 star prospect, and I don't want to ruin him.

Here's his numbers:

1950, A 23 starts,12-8, 2.83, 178.0, 160 HA, 37 BB 171 K.
1951, A 5 starts, 3-1, 2.89, 37.1, 34 HA, 9 BB 41 K.
1951, AA 19 starts, 9-5, 3.88, 137.0, 140 HA, 35 BB 153 K.
1952, AA 23 starts, 5-12, 5.15, 145.0, 167 HA 50 BB 171 K.

Here's his player card:

http://www.jamaicaleague.org/jl/sr/p803.html

That 1952 season has me a little worried. The league is just going through spring training after switching to OOTP6, and I need to make a decision, the scouts are still telling me to send him back down. For the first time, after that '52 season, I'm close to taking their advice.

I'm in no rush as of right now, I have 4 SP prospects ages 21 or 22, Flemmings here is the only 22 year old of the bunch, who are all 4 or 5 stars (3 five star at - two of them about to start at AAA, Flemming here at AA? - and one 4 star at AA).

I don't want to send him back down, he's already killed A ball, and I know from his 19 '51 AA starts that he can handle AA . . . so, whadya think?

It's a talent only league, so all I can tell you is he has 8's (2-8 scale) in all three categories - stuff, control, and movement.

Ktulu · 07-02-2004, 09:07 PM

I would keep him at AA and just be patient, give him a good 3 months to see where he is at. If he is really as good as his talents indicate, he should be alright. I dont think sending him down will help him out much but you never know.

If he's a real prospect he should be able to handle it

HolyCow98 · 07-02-2004, 09:12 PM

I think I would trade him to that Blackriver franchise.....

I agree...I would be patient with him. If he seems to excell at AA I would than promote...I think I would let him spend the first half of this season in AA and if his numbers are of solid...let him give it a whilrl at AAA in the second half.

Dan Theman · 07-02-2004, 09:13 PM

I'd have to agree - he doesn't hav anything more to prove at A-ball

player196 · 07-02-2004, 09:22 PM

Keep him in AA. Let him work out the kinks.

halofan26 · 07-02-2004, 09:55 PM

ill go with the "norm" here...leave him in AA and be patient

attackemu · 07-02-2004, 11:15 PM

I have to agree with everybody but Holycow. I would say dump his sorry butt on Lucea, not Blackriver.

Cowboys3356 · 07-02-2004, 11:21 PM

I checked his player card and it showed his actual ratings as all being zero. He has great potentials but at 22 and having all zeros for actual ratings I would say this guy is worthless considering how OOTP develops young players. Also I would hardly call an ERA barely below 3.00 "dominating" especially considering he was playing at A ball. I would suggets trading this guy to some newbie and wash your hands clean of him! And the reason the scouts are saying to demote him is because his actual ratings are so bad. Minor league stats are random and I would not pay attention to them.

Good luck!

twins15 · 07-02-2004, 11:30 PM

Just saw something that was interesting, he also has some good hitting potential as well.

cesser · 07-02-2004, 11:31 PM

Quote:

I checked his player card and it showed his actual ratings as all being zero

It is a talent-only league. No ratings are visible.

RayofHope · 07-03-2004, 12:58 AM

Yeah, Cowboys, . . . talent only means nobody in this league can see the ratings of any of their players, only their talents. Every player in this league "appears" to have a zero rating everywhere. You have to rely more on stats and instinct . . . pretty tricky, but a hell of a lot of fun. But you do have a point, regardless.

Granted, a sub 3.00 ERA may not be "dominating" but it's not like I've got a developed Pedro Martinez after 3 years in the bigs being returned to A Ball. If you're posting sub 3 numbers straight out of the draft at A and AA, you're handling yourself pretty well I think.

An ERA below 3.00 from the get go is pretty good, especially with the strike outs this guy posted . . . a 4:1 k's to walks ratio every year (apart from the '52 year) isn't too shabby IMO.

Thanks for the general input peoples, it re-affirmed my belief that I should ignore the "scouts" and leave him at AA for the time being. I don't see much reason to listen to the scouts and demote him, but that '52 season was rough.

Blackriver, Lucea, thanks for the tips gents . . . maybe you'd be interested in Ronald Powe?

PS - Twins - I'd never actually noticed his hitting talents, thanks for the heads up on that! (JL does not use the DH).

Dark Horse · 07-03-2004, 01:16 AM

Since you are changing to v6, i'd say start him in AA and see how he does. If he struggles i'd drop him back. Some guys are late bloomers, i've noticed some pretty good players stay in A ball for 3 or 4 years. And once they are promoted they go on to have good careers.

Kaline · 07-03-2004, 01:42 AM

Does the league use scouts? If so, whats yours rated.

Id keep him in A, your in no rush with him and since its a game, keeping him in A cant hurt. Of course, have him in AA by July anyways (hes 22) but why rush it?

Also if you have coach's, put him wherever the best coach is.

RayofHope · 07-03-2004, 01:56 AM

No coaches or scouts.

Re: late bloomers, I don't think he fits into this category because he's already posted a couple good years, and my experience is that late bloomers sometimes just need to be tested with a promotion. But I do know what you mean.

Re: A ball can't hurt . . . that was kinda my feeling that made me question keeping him at AA, but I think A ball maybe can hurt. I'm currently going to keep him at AA until the first month or two of the season, if he's posting great numbers, I may bump him up to AAA (but I doubt it), good or average numbers I'll keep him at AA, bad numbers (I consider those '52 numbers almost bad) and I'll demote him. I think he may spend this entire season at AA. We'll see.

Maybe I'll turn this into an experiment . . . and keep this thread running for those in similar situations, but then, OOTP handles every case differently, even in different versions of the same year, so that may not be viable.

Tycobbler · 07-03-2004, 09:04 AM

If you're using BOSI i'd track his developement and see hows he's progressed to this point. If he's seen significant increases so far start him out in AA. Otherwise start him in A ball he'll probably excel statisticaly there anyway so if you do go that route and he does great call him up to AA by June.

streetballer67 · 07-03-2004, 01:03 PM

I'd bring him back to A for half a season or so.

Joshv02 · 07-03-2004, 02:17 PM

This is version 6, keep in mind

The major difference in his seasons is his Hr. He has a abnormally high BABIP. His SOr is the best it has ever been. His BBr spiked a bit, but his SO:BB ratio is still above 3. I wouldn't worry too much there (but keep an eye on that rising BBr; that could be troubling).

I don't know his HR totals, but assuming those don't show a huge spike, the BABIP is likely an abberation and will settle down.

I'd leave him in AA.

akw4572 · 07-03-2004, 02:31 PM

If he's 22 and having trouble in AA, I'd say he's in trouble as far as being a "stud".

RayofHope · 07-12-2004, 03:38 PM

Just a little update, for those who may or may not be interested.

http://www.jamaicaleague.org/jl/sr/p803.html

Flemmings pulled his tricep tendon and missed three weeks early on, so only has 4 starts so far at AA.

But, he's 1-3 in those 4 starts, with a 2.76 ERA in 32 and 2/3rds innings. He's logged 23 hits against with 14 walks and 26 strike outs. He's posted complete games in 3 of his 4 starts.

Scouts still say he's not AA ready, but are suggesting that this guy, who's a year younger, may warrant a shot at AAA.

http://www.jamaicaleague.org/jl/sr/p867.html

Cowboys3356 · 07-12-2004, 04:31 PM

Both of these players appear worthless. Again all that matters are what a player's current ratings are. Potential is nice but when guys are 21, 22, etc and still have ZEROS across the boards for actual ratings that should be considered a VERY bad thing.

I am very interested to see how this player develops. Please keep us updated!

View Poll Results: Where should I start Flemmings?
Demote him back to A Ball.	6	16.67%
Keep him at AA, at least for now.	30	83.33%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

07-02-2004, 08:35 PM	#1
RayofHope Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2003 Location: Centreville, VA Posts: 275	What to do with this STUD pitching prospect? Okay, I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure out what to do with this pitching prospect of mine in the Jamaica League. I don't like doing this, but I'm so split on what to do with him, I need some advice to mull over. He's one of the best (top 3 any way you look at it) pitching prospects in the Jamaica League, and is my prize (even though I decided to build my team around young pitchers). I promoted him before the scouts said he was ready based on his total domination of A Ball, mainly his WHIP and walks to strike outs ratio. Scouts have hardly stopped telling me he's not ready for AA, even when he was posting stellar numbers there. He's already shown he's amstered A ball, and that he can handle AA, but he got hit around a little bit at AA last year. He is a 5 star prospect, and I don't want to ruin him. Here's his numbers: 1950, A 23 starts,12-8, 2.83, 178.0, 160 HA, 37 BB 171 K. 1951, A 5 starts, 3-1, 2.89, 37.1, 34 HA, 9 BB 41 K. 1951, AA 19 starts, 9-5, 3.88, 137.0, 140 HA, 35 BB 153 K. 1952, AA 23 starts, 5-12, 5.15, 145.0, 167 HA 50 BB 171 K. Here's his player card: http://www.jamaicaleague.org/jl/sr/p803.html That 1952 season has me a little worried. The league is just going through spring training after switching to OOTP6, and I need to make a decision, the scouts are still telling me to send him back down. For the first time, after that '52 season, I'm close to taking their advice. I'm in no rush as of right now, I have 4 SP prospects ages 21 or 22, Flemmings here is the only 22 year old of the bunch, who are all 4 or 5 stars (3 five star at - two of them about to start at AAA, Flemming here at AA? - and one 4 star at AA). I don't want to send him back down, he's already killed A ball, and I know from his 19 '51 AA starts that he can handle AA . . . so, whadya think? It's a talent only league, so all I can tell you is he has 8's (2-8 scale) in all three categories - stuff, control, and movement.

07-02-2004, 09:07 PM	#2
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,506	I would keep him at AA and just be patient, give him a good 3 months to see where he is at. If he is really as good as his talents indicate, he should be alright. I dont think sending him down will help him out much but you never know. If he's a real prospect he should be able to handle it __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!"

07-02-2004, 09:12 PM	#3
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	I think I would trade him to that Blackriver franchise..... I agree...I would be patient with him. If he seems to excell at AA I would than promote...I think I would let him spend the first half of this season in AA and if his numbers are of solid...let him give it a whilrl at AAA in the second half. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

07-02-2004, 09:55 PM	#6
halofan26 All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Anaheim, Ca Posts: 1,491	ill go with the "norm" here...leave him in AA and be patient __________________ Mike Lambert Sim League Central President Home of the Halofan roster set THE best baseball info and fan site ever The best Angels fan site "Because i got high" - Afroman

07-02-2004, 09:22 PM	#5
player196 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 59	Keep him in AA. Let him work out the kinks.

07-02-2004, 11:15 PM	#7
attackemu All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 972	I have to agree with everybody but Holycow. I would say dump his sorry butt on Lucea, not Blackriver. __________________ "Disguised in EMU's Blunt and sometimes hostile post is actually very sound advice. I think you would be wise to consider what he said." -ihatenames

07-02-2004, 11:21 PM	#8
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,572	I checked his player card and it showed his actual ratings as all being zero. He has great potentials but at 22 and having all zeros for actual ratings I would say this guy is worthless considering how OOTP develops young players. Also I would hardly call an ERA barely below 3.00 "dominating" especially considering he was playing at A ball. I would suggets trading this guy to some newbie and wash your hands clean of him! And the reason the scouts are saying to demote him is because his actual ratings are so bad. Minor league stats are random and I would not pay attention to them. Good luck!

07-02-2004, 11:30 PM	#9
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	Just saw something that was interesting, he also has some good hitting potential as well.

07-03-2004, 12:58 AM	#11
RayofHope Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2003 Location: Centreville, VA Posts: 275	Yeah, Cowboys, . . . talent only means nobody in this league can see the ratings of any of their players, only their talents. Every player in this league "appears" to have a zero rating everywhere. You have to rely more on stats and instinct . . . pretty tricky, but a hell of a lot of fun. But you do have a point, regardless. Granted, a sub 3.00 ERA may not be "dominating" but it's not like I've got a developed Pedro Martinez after 3 years in the bigs being returned to A Ball. If you're posting sub 3 numbers straight out of the draft at A and AA, you're handling yourself pretty well I think. An ERA below 3.00 from the get go is pretty good, especially with the strike outs this guy posted . . . a 4:1 k's to walks ratio every year (apart from the '52 year) isn't too shabby IMO. Thanks for the general input peoples, it re-affirmed my belief that I should ignore the "scouts" and leave him at AA for the time being. I don't see much reason to listen to the scouts and demote him, but that '52 season was rough. Blackriver, Lucea, thanks for the tips gents . . . maybe you'd be interested in Ronald Powe? PS - Twins - I'd never actually noticed his hitting talents, thanks for the heads up on that! (JL does not use the DH). Last edited by RayofHope; 07-03-2004 at 01:15 AM.

07-03-2004, 01:16 AM	#12
Dark Horse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas! Posts: 2,633	Since you are changing to v6, i'd say start him in AA and see how he does. If he struggles i'd drop him back. Some guys are late bloomers, i've noticed some pretty good players stay in A ball for 3 or 4 years. And once they are promoted they go on to have good careers. __________________ A Justafan Fan LBA Geo Bahn Rock Hounds fan of the ISLANDIAN PRO ALLIANCE

07-03-2004, 01:42 AM	#13
Kaline Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 321	Does the league use scouts? If so, whats yours rated. Id keep him in A, your in no rush with him and since its a game, keeping him in A cant hurt. Of course, have him in AA by July anyways (hes 22) but why rush it? Also if you have coach's, put him wherever the best coach is.

07-03-2004, 01:56 AM	#14
RayofHope Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2003 Location: Centreville, VA Posts: 275	No coaches or scouts. Re: late bloomers, I don't think he fits into this category because he's already posted a couple good years, and my experience is that late bloomers sometimes just need to be tested with a promotion. But I do know what you mean. Re: A ball can't hurt . . . that was kinda my feeling that made me question keeping him at AA, but I think A ball maybe can hurt. I'm currently going to keep him at AA until the first month or two of the season, if he's posting great numbers, I may bump him up to AAA (but I doubt it), good or average numbers I'll keep him at AA, bad numbers (I consider those '52 numbers almost bad) and I'll demote him. I think he may spend this entire season at AA. We'll see. Maybe I'll turn this into an experiment . . . and keep this thread running for those in similar situations, but then, OOTP handles every case differently, even in different versions of the same year, so that may not be viable.

07-03-2004, 09:04 AM	#15
Tycobbler All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 20 minutes from Comerica Park Posts: 1,955	If you're using BOSI i'd track his developement and see hows he's progressed to this point. If he's seen significant increases so far start him out in AA. Otherwise start him in A ball he'll probably excel statisticaly there anyway so if you do go that route and he does great call him up to AA by June.

07-03-2004, 01:03 PM	#16
streetballer67 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,004	I'd bring him back to A for half a season or so. __________________ Visit Here!!!

07-03-2004, 02:17 PM	#17
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082	This is version 6, keep in mind The major difference in his seasons is his Hr. He has a abnormally high BABIP. His SOr is the best it has ever been. His BBr spiked a bit, but his SO:BB ratio is still above 3. I wouldn't worry too much there (but keep an eye on that rising BBr; that could be troubling). I don't know his HR totals, but assuming those don't show a huge spike, the BABIP is likely an abberation and will settle down. I'd leave him in AA. __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP

07-03-2004, 02:31 PM	#18
akw4572 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,601	If he's 22 and having trouble in AA, I'd say he's in trouble as far as being a "stud".

07-12-2004, 03:38 PM	#19
RayofHope Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2003 Location: Centreville, VA Posts: 275	Just a little update, for those who may or may not be interested. http://www.jamaicaleague.org/jl/sr/p803.html Flemmings pulled his tricep tendon and missed three weeks early on, so only has 4 starts so far at AA. But, he's 1-3 in those 4 starts, with a 2.76 ERA in 32 and 2/3rds innings. He's logged 23 hits against with 14 walks and 26 strike outs. He's posted complete games in 3 of his 4 starts. Scouts still say he's not AA ready, but are suggesting that this guy, who's a year younger, may warrant a shot at AAA. http://www.jamaicaleague.org/jl/sr/p867.html

07-12-2004, 04:31 PM	#20
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,572	Both of these players appear worthless. Again all that matters are what a player's current ratings are. Potential is nice but when guys are 21, 22, etc and still have ZEROS across the boards for actual ratings that should be considered a VERY bad thing. I am very interested to see how this player develops. Please keep us updated!