September call-ups

[Biggie Fries]

My understanding is that version 6.0 no longer "starts the clock" on players who are September call-ups; but I could still use some advice on whether to call up two players who I think are big parts of my organization. Here is the situation:[list=1][*]It's the end of August and I have a big lead, so I'll have plenty of playing time available for these guys.[*]Neither is currently on the 40-man roster, but there is space for them if need be.[*]Brian Russell is a 21 year-old first baseman. He started at the AAA level! With a few games to go in this, his third year at AAA, he has put up the following lines:
Age 19: 31 HR, 91 RBI, .310/.361/.550
Age 20: 39 HR, 122 RBI, .270/.342/.525
Age 21: 39 HR, 119 RBI, .306/.391/.586
His homerun power is only 58 at this point; and I don't think I need him at the major league level next year. But it is hard to see from a statistical perspective that he has anywhere to go in AAA; and even if I do leave him at AAA again next year, I'm wondering if the September ML at bats will help his development.[*]Cedric Gutierrez is a 23 year-old left-handed hitting catcher in his sixth year of professional baseball and his second year at the AAA level. Stats this year (22 HR, 87 RBI, .256/.433/.476 [122 BB!] are down a little from last year (27 HR, 99 RBI, .281/.442/.561) and his home run power (44) does not quite match his talent (7). On the other hand, I can really use a left-handed hitting catcher at the ML level. [/list=1]
Advice welcome! BTW, at the ML level, OPS (including pitchers) is around .690; there are only a handful of qualified .300 hitters; and the HR champ is usually in the high 30s. So a little sock goes a long way...

[jaxmagicman]

The clock does start, but it is different than in OOTP5. In OOTP5 when you called a person up in september, it was as if he was up for the whole year. So you lost a Year of Service time for one month. Now, when you call a person up the only time that counts is the time they are on your roster. So if you only use him for a month and send him back down his service time is only a month.

[Bluenoser]

I'd definitely give Russell some AB's in Sept. You won't hurt his development by bringing him up and may in fact help it. He's put up solid #'s 3 years in a row at AAA. He doesn't have anything left to prove or accomplish there.

Gutierrez you probably won't hurt either by bringing him up, and if you really need a lefty hitting catcher. Does he throw lefty as well? (Those are few and far between, lefty throwing catcher).

[Biggie Fries]

Jax--Thanks for clarification on "clock starting."

Bruce--Catcher throws right, bats left. Haven't seen a lefty-throwing catcher in OOTP... Which reminds me... Does anyone think that the game factors in such matters as whether a batter is hitting right- or left-handed on steals of second (where it helps the runner if the hitter is a lefty) or third (vice versa)?

[jbmagic]

if you bring a player in sept for callup , and when new season starts and he back in minors, do the player lose an option year?

[tomolak]

Originally posted by jbmagic
if you bring a player in sept for callup , and when new season starts and he back in minors, do the player lose an option year?

I don't quite understand how tbe option years are counted in OOTP. I have a player who was indicated as in his "last option year" two years ago. I brought him up each september since then and demoted him before the playoff began. I thought he should be "out of options" next season. But two years have passed and he still remains in his "last option year." I'm still trying to determine what would cause a player an option year.

On the other hand, IRL whether a player gets the september callup or not doesn't matter. One option year has already been used as he plays in the minor league during that season. In the next season's spring training, everybody on the 40-man roster is technically on the active roster. So when the spring training ends and the regular season begins, whoever doesn't make the 25-man active roster has to be "optioned" to the minor league (unless you remove him from the 40-man roster). That is the transaction which causes a player his next option year. But I don't think the option rules in the current version of OOTP work this way.

[JPWagner]

Something I was always unclear about is whether it is necessary for September callups to clear waivers when you send them back down, before heading into post season.....I cut back on my call ups, because of the waiver wire hassle that occurs as you get your post season roster back down to 25...

[wish7694]

IRL if you call up a veteran in September who is out of options and send him back down to the minors he will need to clear waivers at some point. I am not sure whether he is put on at the end of September or in the offseason, but as far as OOTP is concerned I think the end of September is as good as any. If a player has options sending him down when the playoffs start shouldn't be a problem.

[jbmagic]

so if you do a September call up for a player who has options and you send him back down before playoffs or new season , will he use up an option?

[JPWagner]

Originally posted by jbmagic
so if you do a September call up for a player who has options and you send him back down before playoffs or new season , will he use up an option?

I think he does...I'm nearing September in my season, so I'll experiment, to be certain, with a lousy minor league player, unless someone more in the know answers beforehand.......

[tomolak]

Originally posted by wish7694
IRL if you call up a veteran in September who is out of options and send him back down to the minors he will need to clear waivers at some point. I am not sure whether he is put on at the end of September or in the offseason, but as far as OOTP is concerned I think the end of September is as good as any. If a player has options sending him down when the playoffs start shouldn't be a problem.

IRL that's the case if you try to demote him before the regular season ends. But it's a different story in the playoff. You don't need to demote anyone to prepare your playoff roster and thus, no one needs to go through the waivers unless you have other reasons. For the playoff roster, every MLB team needs to submit a list to the commish office on 8/31 (the players on that list must be on either the 40-man roster or the DL at the time although there is a loop hole in this restriction: you can replace an injured player later and there's no restriction on that replacement.) Then if you get to play the postseason, you select 25 players from that list. Therefore, there are no transactions required; it's just selecting 25 players from a pool to play a short series. Teams also get to make selections prior to EACH series. In other words, they can adjust their 25-man roster if they advance to the next round.

[JPWagner]

But to get back to the 25 man post season roster, you have to drag and drop the players from the majors, back into the minors.. that is when the prompt appears concerning the player and waivers.... is there something I'm missing regarding setting up the 25 man post season roster in OOTP, which avoids this?

[tomolak]

Originally posted by JPWagner
But to get back to the 25 man post season roster, you have to drag and drop the players from the majors, back into the minors.. that is when the prompt appears concerning the player and waivers.... is there something I'm missing regarding setting up the 25 man post season roster in OOTP, which avoids this?

Oops, sorry. I was replying wish7694's comments about the cases IRL (in real life). Yeah, it is a problem in OOTP that we have to demote the players in order to make the 25-man active roster for the playoff games. I don't find it especially inconvenient, but it's a problem and logically not right.

[Sweed]

I haven't tried this but as a workaround could you turn off waivers in league setup, make the moves and then turn them back on?

I'm just starting a new season so I can't try this but maybe someone else can.

[jbmagic]

if its part of the rule..i wont turn off waiver...


so for sept call up ...for playoffs or new season will it use up a player option when u put them back to the minors? and if out of option, will he have to clear wiaver first?

is that how it is in ootp 6 and in real baseball? anybody know?

[tomolak]

In major league baseball it's simple: a player option is used up if the player has spent time (not including the rehab assignment) in the minor league that year. But only one option maximum will be used during a year.

So that says, a player who is only called up in september basically already has one and only one of his options used since he spent time in the minors proior to his callup. Further demotions before the season ends won't cause any more options.

Then here comes two differences between the major league baseball and the OOTP baseball:

(1) In MLB, you don't need to demote players to prepare your playoff roster. Therefore, you won't lose players via the waivers while getting a 25-man roster out of your current roster. But in OOTP, you need to demote some of your players to return your active roster to 25 men. If a player is out of option, you'll have to put in on the waivers or release him.

(2) In the spring training of MLB, there's no difference between the 40-man roster and the active roster: everybody on the 40-man is active even if the player is assigned to play in the minor league camp. So when the regular season begins, you need to select a 25-man active roster out of your 40-man roster. Whoever doesn't make it has to be optioned to the minor league, which causes that player an option. If the player who doesn't make it is already out of options, then you'll need to put him on the waivers in order to demote him or just release him. But in OOTP, you don't lose players like this. As long as you keep a player (on the 40-man roster) in the minor league through the off-season, you don't need to worry about demoting him after the spring training. I also doubt simply keeping a player in the minor league for the new season would cause him one more option in OOTP, but it will in MLB.

[sguthrie]

Originally posted by tomolak
I also doubt simply keeping a player in the minor league for the new season would cause him one more option in OOTP, but it will in MLB.

I thought it did. My understanding of waivers in OOPT is basically that you have 3 years of options once you put him on the 40-man roster, whether he goes to the bigs or not.

[edrooney]

OK - I've been into baseball for about 4 years, which I think has given me a fairly decent understanding of events on the field, and a modicum of understanding of things off it.

I've recently discovered OOTP, and am at a bit of a loss on some of the things discussed in this thread, and for which I'm responsible in the game e.g. waivers, options etc.

Rather annoyed because my lack of knowledge seemed to cost me Austin Kearns in my first off-season, and he homered twice against me a few games ago. Anyway ...

I'm not going to ask here for an in-depth explanation of the salary / contract system in pro baseball. It sounds fairly complicated, much more so than in football (sorry, soccer).

Where can I go to get this info? Do you think it will be covered sufficiently in the forthcoming, eagerly awaited OOTP manual?

[JPWagner]

I found that as long as you have the minor league payer remain on the 40 man roster, you can send him down with no problem....it's when you try taking him off the 40 man roster, no matter how many option years he has left, that he must clear waivers first.....

[jbmagic]

JPWagner

so if the player comes up for a cup of coffee in september and you send him back down to minors...will he use up an option?


thanks