When is OOTP6 going to be stable and working?

[Lucas718]

The sad thing is that I've seen this routine before. Company makes a great game, develops a loyal following of fans, then gradually after a couple of releases they forget about what made the game great in the first place. The loyal core fans get more and more disgruntled and eventually they move on to something else.

This happened to Sierra with their Football Pro series. 3DO & High Heat were great for the first 2-3 versions. Where are these games today? and why?

I'd hate to think Markus & OOTP are heading down that same path. It remains to be seen whether this becomes the turning point where everything started to go wrong, or if it is just a temporary bump in the road and we soon get back to the quality we've become accustomed to.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Markus & Company:

Bottom line: fix the message board, release a manual, and freeze further OOTP6 development until you have squashed all the new bugs, and, more importantly, ALL of the unaddressed long-term bugs (there's a list, make sure that you cross all of them off before going on), and then after that go back and add the features that we have been lobbying for and that have needed to be added to the game since version 4.

Summary bottom line: you need to pay more attention to your customers. Less flash, less other products, more bug fixing, more focus.

On the postive side, OOTP overall is nothing less than brilliant, and your work over the years has been outstanding - but that doesn't change the bottom line one bit.

Sincerely,

The senior member of this board

I agree 100% on all counts. Doing this would go a long way toward restoring credibility.

[SoxWin]

Well said Mal, I logged on this morning expecting to see you tell us all to STFU. Must say I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Ragnar]

Originally posted by BruceM
Unfortunately the search function is disabled or I would gladly find the thread where we were promised H2H a few weeks after release. When all the hoopla about early release was started, in a thread by Markus I might add, he stated that within a few weeks H2H would be added. More than a few weeks have passed.

Did anyone actually believe in this time table? This is the main reason I was so against an early release. We all know patches take a week or 2 alone.

They said they'd release early which they did. They said they'd patch it then come out with an update which is still what they're doing. I'm sure after the update they will fix the little bugs. hehehe maybe. But I do find it interesting in that I see many people here not pleased with the early release yet they are pushing for a quick fix.

So far they have not said H2H is not gonna be in it. That is the major part of the big update is it not?

[Night2000]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Markus & Company:

Bottom line: fix the message board, release a manual, and freeze further OOTP6 development until you have squashed all the new bugs, and, more importantly, ALL of the unaddressed long-term bugs (there's a list, make sure that you cross all of them off before going on), and then after that go back and add the features that we have been lobbying for and that have needed to be added to the game since version 4. Yes, futher game development is fun and great, but squashing bugs is much more important and much more necessary, and after that you need to add the features that we have been yelling about for years. THEN move on. I know, that sounds a lot like real work, but your choices are either to do that or have a lot of angry customers with long-term grievances on your hands. The latter is a terrible business practice; in business, your customers are your lifeblood. If they aren't happy, then you're doing things wrong - and right now, they aren't happy, which should tell you everything that you need to know.

Sincerely,

The senior member of this board

This pretty much sums up a lot of what I have been saying in the past. It just may be that Markus can only do so much with this OOTP gaming engine. Perhaps when he has access to the SI gaming engine he will be able to implement a lot of what he hasn't been able to do. I've been hearing for years how great and complex their soccer game is. The news stories are great. The interaction of the management, and players are great. This is probably the type of engine, Markus needs to really make OOTP an immersive Baseball experience. Just a thought...

[eneubaue]

As a loyal customer since Version 1, I have to (reluctantly) agree with some of the "old-timers" that version 6 is not up to the working standards set by earlier versions. I think Malleus Dei's suggestions would go a long way to correcting the current situation.

The fact that the editor is still not working properly has forced me to continue to use Version 5 for my OOTP game playing needs - the first time I've had to do this.

(Note: I should point out that the editor may be working correctly - a reflection of how the old engine/stats and new DIPS engine/stats interface, especially with regards to pitcher ratings/talents; however, there hasn't been anyone to satisfactorily address this one way or the other - at least, I haven't seen it).

Markus have a proven track record of correcting problems, and I know doubt he with put forth the effort that he has in the past to make OOTP the best product available. Here's hoping that he doesn't take the current criticism as some kind of "revolt". That is, us "old-timers" aren't bitching for the sake of bitching (at least, not me, anyway). We're just a bit concerned that things might be slipping a bit.

[JAttractive]

When I saw the price break on version 6 alarm bells instantly went off in my head. This was supposed to be a huge leap forward for the game and the engine and yet OOTPD was able to do all that and still reduce the price?? Clearly corners had to be cut somewhere.

I don't blame Markus' abilities for the problems here. I blame some of his decisions, mainly: splitting time with ITP and trying to do almost everything himself with OOTP.

The second one is where my biggest gripe is. DON'T give us a price break ever again please. I'd much rather pay an extra $10 to compensate for either a) extra time put in by Markus or b) extra help hired on. This is no longer seen by most of us as a niche/underground game where having one coder is cute/neat or even necessary.

For a game that can hold our attention for a year or longer at a time (especially with online leagues) I am more than willing to pay no only that $10 I saved but a further INCREASE in price if it meant this game wouldn't have "corners cut" with features missing, bugs etc. This isn't some console game that you can beat in 15 hours and will feel robbed after shelling out $50-60 for it. Many of us probably spend hundreds of hours with each version of OOTP and it's sold for half the price of most other games I purchase?!?

Most of us will pay for quality. Right now it's not there though, not even for $35 or whatever I paid when v.5 is arguably superior and I already own that. There is potential for v.6 to be the better product after some of the upcoming patch(es) come out don't get me wrong.... But if it meant I could have had them working from the start if I paid $50-60 (to give Markus the revenues to hire some extra help) I would have GLADLY done it.

[PurdueBrad]

OOTP to me is definitely a game that I would pay $50 for. It is almost like two games in one with the solo aspect and the on-line league aspect. If that is what it would've taken to get the product right, I would've had no problem paying that either considering I pay nearly that much for any other game I buy.

[JAttractive]

Originally posted by PurdueBrad
OOTP to me is definitely a game that I would pay $50 for. It is almost like two games in one with the solo aspect and the on-line league aspect. If that is what it would've taken to get the product right, I would've had no problem paying that either considering I pay nearly that much for any other game I buy.

Exactly.

I'm not going to gripe and act like Markus ripped me off. He put out what I would have expected for $35: a sub-par product. I feel like I got what I paid for.

I don't expect him to slave away at his computer to get what we wanted and earn a pittance in the process. If at $35 the revenues from OOTP can't support hiring on extra help that's understable. Markus is doing this to make a profit, it's his job afterall. I don't expect him to turn OOTP into a money-losing venture. The thing is many of us would probably pay more than $35 so the solution might be right there in front of his face...

[SoxWin]

See, I don't expect a sub par product from this company for $35. I don't feel any previous versions are sub par so why should I except it for v6?

Sadly, the price break didn't set off alarms in my head when it really should have in retrospect.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by SoxWin
Well said Mal, I logged on this morning expecting to see you tell us all to STFU. Must say I'm pleasantly surprised.

You forgot that I'm always with you when you are right.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by statfreak
FWIW, Malleus is mostly right, as usual...

I try very hard to always be right.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally posted by darkhorse
Babe Ruth quality post.

What an insult to a relative of Ty Cobb.

[jazzrack]

Originally posted by statfreak
You mean Mario Mendoza...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mendoma01.shtml


FWIW, Malleus is mostly right, as usual...

Ahh yes , my bad. mario not manny. I apoligize to any Manny's out there

[JAttractive]

Originally posted by SoxWin
See, I don't expect a sub par product from this company for $35. I don't feel any previous versions are sub par so why should I except it for v6?

Sadly, the price break didn't set off alarms in my head when it really should have in retrospect.

Well I don't expect it either to be honest from this company and that's why I put out $35 sight unseen. I guess that's what is causing most people to be so ticked off: we haven't had to deal with this situation before from OOTPD. From most companies though at $35 this would have been what I would have expected in terms of quality so it isn't really bothering me all that much. I just hope this isn't the start of a downward spiral for the game is all and that Markus and co. can learn from this.

[slave2isis]

I think the major thing is that all of us want some sort of explanation from Markus to why some features are the way they are and features that are not added.Ive been a owner of this game from v4,i know from my forum name you might not be able ascertain that. Anyway the fact is Im very dissapointed that i bought a product like this!! Every new version of the game i like to simulate from 1905 to present so i can have a rich history before i decide to take over a team. If it werent for me actually getting Catobase to work for me this time,I wouldnt have played this game anymore. The slow down kills me,its not like i have a slow comp either. I bought ITP it was an ok game but i knew when i was buying it that it was a mere side project. I am rambling and i know it. All we want is the product we were told was comming out. Hell i wont ever use h2h but id love that coefficiant. I also know the FC wasnt promised but i have been hearing about it since v4. Why not add it to the game like the shotty waiver system, at least it would be something. I am totally fustrated at this game, its almost to the point where id think about another text sim next year. Next year only cause i am very cheap LOL. The thing i am trying to get at is Markus really needs to get on the ball and atleast tell us what the deal is or he will lose alot of fans of this game. One last thing , it is very sad i have to go through all of this again. 1st its was Bbpro the hardball then highheat now this game if nothing is done, well thanx for reading my mindless dribble but everyone needs to let out there fustration over this.......


P.s Sorry about the grammer mistakes and poorly spelled words i just got off work so i am a bit tired.

Thanks and good night

[sporr]

Considering that it's only a month + after the game's release and the next version isn't due out for over another year, I see no reason to go into worry mode at all. Past practice, future behavior. Markus has always taken care of the customers in the past and he will do so in the future.

ITP was not a mistake. It opened the door to a whole new group of fans who may have never taken a look at OOTP otherwise. More fans leads to more money which leads to more ability to expand the game into realms that were never possible before.

I remember how troubled people were with all of the problems with OOTP5 and how many people said that the beta testing procedure needed fixed.

OOTP6 has added so many features that it's amazing to me how few problems there are.

Yes, there are problems with OOTP6. Yes, Markus will surely fix them. But please keep in mind that the complexity of the game engine has probably quadrupled (if not more) for OOTP6. Waivers, 40-man rosters, Rule 5 drafts. Real major league teams have entire staffs of people to handle all of these things. And we're expecting the OOTP game engine to handle it intelligently the first time around?

Advancements will be made, and moreso now that Markus will have many more resources at his disposal. Everyone always begged for the ultimate gaming experience, and the SI merger may give Markus the resources to make that happen.

Markus moved to a new country during the development of OOTP6. It's no wonder that he hasn't been around the boards as much as he has for past versions.

Now, as I said, there are some problems with the game. But I have no fear that these will be resolved in due time.

[rem]

Originally posted by jazzrack
I am not having ANY of the problems that some of you have, It has been very stable and works fine on my machine

H2H works for you?

Originally posted by BruceM
Unfortunately the search function is disabled or I would gladly find the thread where we were promised H2H a few weeks after release. When all the hoopla about early release was started, in a thread by Markus I might add, he stated that within a few weeks H2H would be added. More than a few weeks have passed.

OK, today I have been thinking about a possibility to get the game released sooner. The only real big feature that needs to be put in is the internet head-to-head mode. It is already 50% implemented, but I guess getting it done 100% and testing it properly will take 1 week.

So, the question is, I could leave this out of the initial release, and concentrate on it fully for the first big update, which usually is 2-3 weeks after release time.

What do you think, would you mind if I left this feature out of the initial release to get the game out sooner?

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...threadid=58419

[Cyclone792]

Originally posted by remangiii

quote:
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Originally posted by jazzrack
I am not having ANY of the problems that some of you have, It has been very stable and works fine on my machine
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H2H works for you?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BruceM
Unfortunately the search function is disabled or I would gladly find the thread where we were promised H2H a few weeks after release. When all the hoopla about early release was started, in a thread by Markus I might add, he stated that within a few weeks H2H would be added. More than a few weeks have passed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, today I have been thinking about a possibility to get the game released sooner. The only real big feature that needs to be put in is the internet head-to-head mode. It is already 50% implemented, but I guess getting it done 100% and testing it properly will take 1 week.

So, the question is, I could leave this out of the initial release, and concentrate on it fully for the first big update, which usually is 2-3 weeks after release time.

What do you think, would you mind if I left this feature out of the initial release to get the game out sooner?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boa...&threadid=58419

Ahhh hell... 2-3 weeks, 7-8 weeks, 5-6 months, a couple years... it's all the same! Same as financial co-efficients promised for a v5 patch, same as instability nearly two months into the game's existence, same as that major update that conveniently nobody ever has any up-to-date information on, same as the conversion process from v5 to v6 was fully tested, but hell, I guess that means converting a bunch of pitchers to a 1 control rating in a 1-100 scale is fully acceptable, same as..... I can go on and on and on.

Yet all anybody kept hearing was "the game will be released when it's fully tested and found to be ready." Well...

1) The game clearly wasn't fully tested and
2) It sure as hell isn't ready as of June 6th.

OOTPD should fire up a political career because their best asset is failing to deliver their promises.

[BleacherBum]

Originally posted by sporr
ITP was not a mistake. It opened the door to a whole new group of fans who may have never taken a look at OOTP otherwise. More fans leads to more money which leads to more ability to expand the game into realms that were never possible before.

The idea of ITP isn't the issue. The problem was essentially poor management: specifically the decision to allocate resources to ITP at the expense of OOTP. Markus is the OOTP designer and programmer. Markus is the ITP designer and programmer. One person doesn't scale this way - even Markus. Hopefully the company sees this now. If so, then the ITP experience was beneficial. There are ways for one architect to produce multiple titles. But you have to involve more people in the details, i.e. the programming.

How did OOTP suffer? Markus was entirely focused on ITP from at least August until the release in December, and patches in January. Where did I get come up with August? Recall this quote from the OOTPD newsletter in Sep '03: "During the last two months, OOTP Developments has spent almost all of its time on developing our future games, Inside the Park Baseball and Title Bout Championship Boxing." (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/newsletters/nl0003) Since he's the only developer, OOTP6 missed out on a lot of attention. That was the mistake, which now manifests itself in the poorer quality of this latest release vs. previous ones.