Ammy draft ages in 6.02

DAL 9000 · 06-03-2004, 07:05 PM

For me, the only really annoying part of OOTP was the amateur draft-- specifically, the age ranges of the draftees. The 6.02 patch claims to have more realistic age ranges, which would be cool if it were true, but it's not. In fact, it took a huge step backwards. The high school ages range from 16(!) to 19, and collegians go up to 24 (24!), when before they topped out at 23. How is that "more realistic?" It seems to me that the proper age ranges are-- it's really not that hard-- 17-18 (with perhaps the odd 19-year-old) for high schoolers, and 20-21 (with the occasional 22-year-old) for collegians.

Incredibly. Frustrating. Gragh! The game is still outstanding, don't get me wrong, but how on earth could Markus et al. make such an incredibly obvious error, then represent it as being more realistic?

kingpin1976 · 06-03-2004, 07:13 PM

Is the best thing we can do is whine on these boards? I would just be happy to get my game to fire up at the moment.

Henry · 06-03-2004, 07:46 PM

Work continues on all parts of the game, accuracy will improve, progress continues.... we have an incredibly complex simulation here. Not everything can be done in a day.

lnkpark · 06-03-2004, 07:57 PM

If he was 19 when he graduated from high school. Went to college, was redshirted a year, then played the rest of his elgiblity, he would be 24 at the time of the draft.

DAL 9000 · 06-03-2004, 08:01 PM

It's not whining, it's bitching.

Henry: I do understand that, and like I said, I really do heart OOTP-- I'm just amazed that a blatant step backwards was represented as "more accurate," and puzzled at how it happened. I expressed it poorly, but I'm still irritated, because I had high hopes when I saw that the patch promised a more realistic age range, only to have those hopes dashed on the rocks of some sort of metaphor.

And now I have the sinking feeling that this post has followed the exact template of the response offered by every newbie who's ever been chastised for whining.

Oh, well. I'm proud to continue the tradition, sort of.

DAL 9000 · 06-03-2004, 08:06 PM

About a quarter of the players in the college pool are 24, though. Plus, collegians are draft-eligible after their junior year, so most of the guys who are considered prospects are drafted as juniors, not seniors. A player like the one you described would likely be taken as minor-league roster filler; instead, several of the top prospects in a few different drafts I ran were 24, in some cases 24 going on 25. Given OOTP's player aging system, that's cause for serious concern... at least for me.

gmo · 06-03-2004, 08:57 PM

I agree that the draft ages leave something to be desired. But what about that the amateur draft is the only way to get new players, youngsters in particular, besides creating them? What about that the minors are only AAA, AA, and a single A team? It makes some sense to have ages a bit higher than IRL since the lowest minors are not in the game. By themselves I do not think even the new draftee ages are that realistically distributed, but as the game sits now I don't know if a perfectly realistic distribution would be the best thing.

plannine · 06-04-2004, 08:37 AM

The Class A Lansing Lugnuts, all the players on the team were born between 80 and 84 (19 to 25 years old). All the 1980 players attended college. Most played in 2003 at some level of baseball (except for some latin players who may have played pro-ball since they were 15 in latin america and those which graduated from college)

(and lets not forget the Jim Morris's and Joe Nuxhall's of the world....i know, it was Morris's 2nd try at baseball)

sguthrie · 06-04-2004, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAL 9000
It seems to me that the proper age ranges are-- it's really not that hard-- 17-18 (with perhaps the odd 19-year-old) for high schoolers, and 20-21 (with the occasional 22-year-old) for collegians.

Let's do the math - if ague graduates from HS as 17, and goes to college for 4 years, that would make him 21 at graduation (it's also possible they could only play a year or two at college and then go out, but I don't know if the game takes that into account).

If, by your own statement, 18 is a reasonable age to graduate HS, and that person takes a redshirt year and they plays his 4 years, that would make him 23 - your "occasionall 19 year old" would allow for the occasional 24 year old college player.

I was 22 when I graduated college, and would have been 23 if I had gone 5 years. I'd say that MOST people who go 4 years will be 22 with the occasional 23 or 24 year old if they go 5 years.

joncon16 · 06-04-2004, 09:22 AM

I just graduated college last year @ 23, turned 24 a bit after graduation. Between transferring and missing a semester to injury (hockey related) I had to make up about a year's worth of classes (pretend it was a red shirt). So it's definitely a realistic possibility. As for the 16 year olds, answer this question -- how many foreign players (Dominican, Puerto Rico, etc...) are signed by scouts at 16? So maybe they shouldn't be listed as high school players on the draft board, or perhaps shouldn't be in the draft at all, but the end result is the same regardless of the path used to get there.

Besides if it's so frustrating then go into the editor and change the ages. That's the beauty of OOTP, if you don't like an aspect of the game you get to change it. Simple as that.

plannine · 06-04-2004, 09:30 AM

From the Indianapolis Indians website (today 6/4/2004)

Brewers & Indians Announce June 14 Tryout Camp

INDIANAPOLIS, IN -- The Milwaukee Brewers will hold a tryout camp at Victory Field on Monday,June 14, as announced by the Indianapolis Indians.Pitchers and catchers should report at 9 a.m. Infielders and outfielders are invited at 12:30 p.m. Participants will be taken through hitting, throwing, fielding and running drills under the eyes of Brewers ’ scouts.

Players 16-25 years of age are invited to attend. Each player should report to camp in appropriate uniform and bring his own glove and shoes. Bats, balls and catcher’s equipment will be provided.

In order to participate, players under 21 must have written permission from a parent or legal guardian in which the parent accepts full legal liability for any injury a player might sustain.

American Legion players must bring written permission slips signed by their coaches in order to participate.

The tryout camp will be conducted by Mike Farrell, Brewers ’Area Scout for Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and Kentucky.

woburn · 06-04-2004, 09:39 AM

So that's what Mike Farrell has been doing since M*A*S*H went off the air....

KurtBevacqua · 06-04-2004, 09:54 AM

I was 29 when I graduated, but then again I took the special 10 year plan that included a 4 year stint in the Air Force as a part of my life experiences curriculum.

sguthrie · 06-04-2004, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KurtBevacqua
I was 29 when I graduated, but then again I took the special 10 year plan that included a 4 year stint in the Air Force as a part of my life experiences curriculum.

Thank you for your service.

ctorg · 06-04-2004, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gmo
I agree that the draft ages leave something to be desired. But what about that the amateur draft is the only way to get new players, youngsters in particular, besides creating them?

This is a real issue to me. Not every player who shows up in the majors got there through the draft. Some come from open tryouts, some come from scouting in other countries. I'd love to see guys just sort of "appear" in the free agent pool - and be major league ready - as at least one way of showing this.

euphoria13 · 06-05-2004, 08:06 AM

From Baseball America:
Fifth-year college seniors are eligible to sign as free agents upon completion of their season, provided they signed before the start of the closed period, May 31.

First of all, there really aren`t that many fifth-year college seniors (baseball players) out there. Secondly, almost any player fifth-year college senior worth anything will have been signed before the draft.

06-03-2004, 07:05 PM	#1
DAL 9000 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 294	Ammy draft ages in 6.02 For me, the only really annoying part of OOTP was the amateur draft-- specifically, the age ranges of the draftees. The 6.02 patch claims to have more realistic age ranges, which would be cool if it were true, but it's not. In fact, it took a huge step backwards. The high school ages range from 16(!) to 19, and collegians go up to 24 (24!), when before they topped out at 23. How is that "more realistic?" It seems to me that the proper age ranges are-- it's really not that hard-- 17-18 (with perhaps the odd 19-year-old) for high schoolers, and 20-21 (with the occasional 22-year-old) for collegians. Incredibly. Frustrating. Gragh! The game is still outstanding, don't get me wrong, but how on earth could Markus et al. make such an incredibly obvious error, then represent it as being more realistic?

06-03-2004, 07:57 PM	#4
lnkpark Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 50	If he was 19 when he graduated from high school. Went to college, was redshirted a year, then played the rest of his elgiblity, he would be 24 at the time of the draft. __________________

06-03-2004, 08:57 PM	#7
gmo Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 3,474	I agree that the draft ages leave something to be desired. But what about that the amateur draft is the only way to get new players, youngsters in particular, besides creating them? What about that the minors are only AAA, AA, and a single A team? It makes some sense to have ages a bit higher than IRL since the lowest minors are not in the game. By themselves I do not think even the new draftee ages are that realistically distributed, but as the game sits now I don't know if a perfectly realistic distribution would be the best thing. __________________ Making Baseball Schedules

06-04-2004, 08:37 AM	#8
plannine All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 572	The Class A Lansing Lugnuts, all the players on the team were born between 80 and 84 (19 to 25 years old). All the 1980 players attended college. Most played in 2003 at some level of baseball (except for some latin players who may have played pro-ball since they were 15 in latin america and those which graduated from college) (and lets not forget the Jim Morris's and Joe Nuxhall's of the world....i know, it was Morris's 2nd try at baseball) __________________ Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa - Casey Stengel Last edited by plannine; 06-04-2004 at 08:43 AM.

06-04-2004, 09:30 AM	#11
plannine All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 572	From the Indianapolis Indians website (today 6/4/2004) Brewers & Indians Announce June 14 Tryout Camp INDIANAPOLIS, IN -- The Milwaukee Brewers will hold a tryout camp at Victory Field on Monday,June 14, as announced by the Indianapolis Indians.Pitchers and catchers should report at 9 a.m. Infielders and outfielders are invited at 12:30 p.m. Participants will be taken through hitting, throwing, fielding and running drills under the eyes of Brewers ’ scouts. Players 16-25 years of age are invited to attend. Each player should report to camp in appropriate uniform and bring his own glove and shoes. Bats, balls and catcher’s equipment will be provided. In order to participate, players under 21 must have written permission from a parent or legal guardian in which the parent accepts full legal liability for any injury a player might sustain. American Legion players must bring written permission slips signed by their coaches in order to participate. The tryout camp will be conducted by Mike Farrell, Brewers ’Area Scout for Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and Kentucky. __________________ Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa - Casey Stengel

06-03-2004, 07:13 PM	#2
kingpin1976 Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 402	Is the best thing we can do is whine on these boards? I would just be happy to get my game to fire up at the moment.

06-03-2004, 07:46 PM	#3
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Work continues on all parts of the game, accuracy will improve, progress continues.... we have an incredibly complex simulation here. Not everything can be done in a day.

06-03-2004, 08:01 PM	#5
DAL 9000 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 294	It's not whining, it's bitching. Henry: I do understand that, and like I said, I really do heart OOTP-- I'm just amazed that a blatant step backwards was represented as "more accurate," and puzzled at how it happened. I expressed it poorly, but I'm still irritated, because I had high hopes when I saw that the patch promised a more realistic age range, only to have those hopes dashed on the rocks of some sort of metaphor. And now I have the sinking feeling that this post has followed the exact template of the response offered by every newbie who's ever been chastised for whining. Oh, well. I'm proud to continue the tradition, sort of.

06-03-2004, 08:06 PM	#6
DAL 9000 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 294	About a quarter of the players in the college pool are 24, though. Plus, collegians are draft-eligible after their junior year, so most of the guys who are considered prospects are drafted as juniors, not seniors. A player like the one you described would likely be taken as minor-league roster filler; instead, several of the top prospects in a few different drafts I ran were 24, in some cases 24 going on 25. Given OOTP's player aging system, that's cause for serious concern... at least for me.

06-04-2004, 09:22 AM	#10
joncon16 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Connecticut Posts: 112	I just graduated college last year @ 23, turned 24 a bit after graduation. Between transferring and missing a semester to injury (hockey related) I had to make up about a year's worth of classes (pretend it was a red shirt). So it's definitely a realistic possibility. As for the 16 year olds, answer this question -- how many foreign players (Dominican, Puerto Rico, etc...) are signed by scouts at 16? So maybe they shouldn't be listed as high school players on the draft board, or perhaps shouldn't be in the draft at all, but the end result is the same regardless of the path used to get there. Besides if it's so frustrating then go into the editor and change the ages. That's the beauty of OOTP, if you don't like an aspect of the game you get to change it. Simple as that.

06-04-2004, 09:39 AM	#12
woburn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 191	So that's what Mike Farrell has been doing since MAS*H went off the air....

06-04-2004, 09:54 AM	#13
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	I was 29 when I graduated, but then again I took the special 10 year plan that included a 4 year stint in the Air Force as a part of my life experiences curriculum. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner

06-05-2004, 08:06 AM	#16
euphoria13 Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 12	24 year old draftees From Baseball America: Fifth-year college seniors are eligible to sign as free agents upon completion of their season, provided they signed before the start of the closed period, May 31. First of all, there really aren`t that many fifth-year college seniors (baseball players) out there. Secondly, almost any player fifth-year college senior worth anything will have been signed before the draft.