The OOTP & SI Marriage

[Puckett guy]

I am sure there are going to be some folks out ther fretting that the merger of OOTP and SI will somehow change OOTP for the worse. I have no crystal ball, but I know SI is a top notch, class outfit that produces the very best sports management game in the form of the Championship Manager series. IMO this development is going to make OOTP even better, much better.

[rpckvv]

Agreed. I only stopped playing cm4 and cm0304 because OOTP6 came out. i think SI can only improve the OOTP series.

[Beach23BoyP]

I've played CM 03/04 and it was one great sim! But, I really don't understand what the big benefit is with those two joining forces. I prefer smaller organizations because they always seem to listen better to the users. And Markus really listened when we complained about the "text commentary" font size and position in OOTP6. I was amazed at the speed in which he released his patch.

But who knows? I'm sure will see "at least a 2D animated playfield" (much like CM03/04's) in OOTP7. Anyway, all the best to Markus and good luck with version 7.

[NickG]

I actually doubt you'll see much of a difference in customer service. SI are pretty good about answering to their customers as well.

The big benefit seems to be that the OOTP team now has access to the CM/FM code base, so they can more easily code things like player interaction and possibly a 2D engine(?).

[redmarkYankees]

I've bought and played every version of CM for over a decade, unfortunately IMHO CM4 wasn't upto the standard of previous versions, in that it was unbelievably buggy and was never 'fixed' before CM03/04 came out.

Undoubtedly SI have expertise to offer; particularly I would expect in improvements to the interface and 'look' of OOTP. However, having spent a lot of time on the SI forums after the release of CM4 and doing some (brief) beta-testing for CM03/04, I believe their responsiveness to customers is less than it should be, than it once was and than OOTP's is.

Perhaps, hopefully, this marriage will filter through some customer-service improvement back into SI and the football game series too, rather than bringing (IMO) the developers less responsive "we know best" attitude into OOTP.

I would also expect SI's marketing power to mean in future I'll have to buy a retail CD for rather more than the current download costs, but I guess we'll see.

[Bald Eagles]

I wouldn't mind waiting till late next year for OOTP 7. In fact, I was hoping to get to spend more time with v6 and all of those new features. I do hope OOTP 6 is supported sometime into next season before v7 is out. I understand at some point they stop with the old to begin the new, and it'd be great to keep v6 around longer before releasing v7. At least now CBL and all the other roster makers will have advanced warning to keep their roster paks current for v6 next year.

[Bonedwarf]

I'm a long time CM player, but I really fail to see the benefit of OOTP merging with SI. SI have never been able to get a US distribution deal for CM. Plus I guarantee the game is going to go up in price now. Wouldn't be surprised if OOTP6 is the last one we can all download and it's CD only from now on. (Since I believe SI only offered a downloadable version of one iteration of CM.) RedmarkYankees is on the nail I think.

Really think this was a bad move. Be more than happy to be wrong, but I really do fail to see how this will do the game any good. The 2D engine in CM isn't that great IMO, and seeing it "translated" over to OOTP wouldn't add much, if anything to the game.

In short, disappointed: It seems SI are trying to corner the sim market, when they don't even have the Championship Manager name anymore, and the unimaginatively titled "Football Manager" (wonder if they got permission from Kevin Toms to use the name?) has none of the "brand" awareness they've had for the last decade...

I pray OOTP doesn't go the way of EHM which, last screenshots I saw, was just CM with pucks. (Interface same as CM3.)

[Muppetus Galacticus]

When I first head this I thought, "Nah, don't like that". But as long as Markus can keep the game, "open" so it is still easy to add the rosters and Cato etc I can't see a problem. Also logos and photos, I've never tried it myself, but I seem to remember hearing that when you use them on CM it slows the game down some. But, we'll see what they do.

I guess when EHM:FE is released we'll get to see how that went. I would expect a 2D Match Engine for SI' OOTP as by that time it will have been in three versions of CM.

Muppetus Galacticus

[Matt Uk]

In short, disappointed: It seems SI are trying to corner the sim market, when they don't even have the Championship Manager name anymore, and the unimaginatively titled "Football Manager" (wonder if they got permission from Kevin Toms to use the name?) has none of the "brand" awareness they've had for the last decade...

Yes, I believe they paid for the Football Manager name.


I'm not sure what to make of this, one the one hand they are a good company in the main and have vast experience with CM, onthe other I would be very surprised if Markus would be allowed to be so responsive in the way of patches and quickness of dealing with any bugs/fixes as he is now.

Given the bug ridden cm4 they should all benefit from Markus more than the other way around. OOTP stability is always very very good and bugs are usually minor and fixed quickly. In SI's defence I think they were under pressure from Eidos to release CM4 and that is the main reason for the shocking state of the game at release. NOw they have broken away from them this sort of thing shouldn't happen. Remember the original programmers of CM were two brothers who wrote it at home in much the same way as Markus. So they have come from the same games making background.

On the whole if Markus is, as they say, allowed to continue with his game as he wants it then in the long run it should be good news. Some of the things like player interaction and in depth contracts etc would be nice to blend into OOTP.

I just hope it doesn't end up looking like a CM clone.

[RedRob]

Its true Cm4 was very bug ridden when released and 5 patches had to be released before it was a great game, but they could have left the game - although that would have lost them a lot of customers.

03/04 however out of the box is totally playable - a brilliant game. They listened to the comunity however and released 5 patches for this even though they weren't necessery to enjoy the game.

I really think you shouldn't be worried about their custom,er service

[Matt Uk]

Yeah, I've just been reading through the other thread (read this one first) and seen the responses from the two Marc's which makes good reading. Looks like it will be good news all round.

[jbmagic]

is SI going to market in the united states too...


there CM games was no where to be found in the states..


i sure hope football manager, yhere new hockey one and now ootp will be sold in the united states too...

[BigBambino]

I doubt very much OOTP will be changed. If they do change it, you can bet your bottom dollar it will be for the better and not for the worse

[LAH]

Please make a pro football game.

TPF is no good and FOF is getting a little old...

[Puckett guy]

Obviously none of us know what will become of the SI and OOTP merger, even the developers are sailing in new waters on this one. However, it's a given that Markus and the guys at SI know how to make a good sports management sim, know how to make it better, know how to listen to their customers and know how to run a succesfull business. You can bet the principals of these companies thought long and hard about this and they would not have made the deal if they didn't think they could make a better OOTP and thereby make a lot more money.

I don't think we are going to see OOTP turn into a clone of CM. Eastside Hockey will be using the CM interface and the CM3 engine, but keep in mind that EH was really in an infant development stage and needed to make that move if it was going to go from freeware to commercial. It was really at about the same stage as OOTP1 or OOTP2. Today's OOTP is much more advanced and I can't see the principals dumping the OOTP engine for a CM makeover. If you think about the basics, hockey and soccer have lots of game play similarities, baseball does not.

I think SI will provide the resources for Markus to take OOTP to a much higher level. With a few more versions of OOTP I would speculate that we will see some of these additions to the game:

1. A well thought out 2D screen that's fun to watch.
2. Much more offensive and defensive game strategy options.
3. A big increase in pbp outcomes.
4. Agents.
5. Training Staff.
6. Media Involvement.
7. International Play (e.g. Japan, Cuba, Venezuela Leagues, Olympics etc.)
8. Multiple team scouts to hire/fire and direct
9. Base coaches with their own strengths and weaknesses
10. Umpires with their individual tendencies and personalities
11. Clubhouse leaders and disruptors
12. Team rivalries and feuds.
13. Owners who may intermeddle with off-field decisions.
14. Staduim sounds.
15. Team and individual player morale.
16. Feuds and friendships between individual players.
16. And so on and so forth.

I realize that not all of these additions will be "improvements" for all peoiple. But CM has all of these or similar features already there (or coming soon) and it still satisfies a huge, demanding and knowledgeable fan/game player community. I don't see how OOTP and its community can lose on this one.

[jaymac89]

I want to build and render my own baseball stadium. I believe it is Football Manager that lets you do that.

And the 2-D would be a treat as well.

[ragnaar15]

CM? There can be only one.

[Antonin]

Originally posted by BigBambino
I doubt very much OOTP will be changed. If they do change it, you can bet your bottom dollar it will be for the better and not for the worse

When a smaller organization "joins" a bigger one, the bigger one ALWAYS says things like "We don't forsee any changes" and "We really like your ideas and think we can learn a lot from you."

The reality is that the bigger organization always thinks it knows better than the smaller one (that's why it got to be big, right?), and after a show of nice-ness it takes the ideas of the smaller one and "improves upon" them--i.e., changes them to the point where they no longer resemble what they were and thereby lose the innovative flavor that made them worthwhile and appealing in the first place.

With all respect, guys, this is what I have seen in many, many years of "life" in the corporate world. When intellectual property is involved, the big organization always thinks its ideas are superior.

I fear that two years and a couple of messy OOTP versions from from now (with cute 2D pbp graphcs and no development in the areas of statistical tracking and game flexibility) Markus will opt to be an independent operator again because being "with" SI just won't allow the kind of creativity and independence he is used to.

[Henry]

How about we just give this a chance and get back to helping Markus come up with great ideas for the V6 patches and V7 next year? We can spend the next 18 months worrying about the "what ifs" or we can enjoy this game and try and make it better. I'd much rather do the 2nd one

Henry

[Marc Duffy]

Originally posted by Antonin
When a smaller organization "joins" a bigger one, the bigger one ALWAYS says things like "We don't forsee any changes" and "We really like your ideas and think we can learn a lot from you."

The reality is that the bigger organization always thinks it knows better than the smaller one (that's why it got to be big, right?), and after a show of nice-ness it takes the ideas of the smaller one and "improves upon" them--i.e., changes them to the point where they no longer resemble what they were and thereby lose the innovative flavor that made them worthwhile and appealing in the first place.

With all respect, guys, this is what I have seen in many, many years of "life" in the corporate world. When intellectual property is involved, the big organization always thinks its ideas are superior.

I fear that two years and a couple of messy OOTP versions from from now (with cute 2D pbp graphcs and no development in the areas of statistical tracking and game flexibility) Markus will opt to be an independent operator again because being "with" SI just won't allow the kind of creativity and independence he is used to.

Well, I like to look at the relationship in a different way. We have ideas and know what has and hasnt worked for us. Markus has ideas and knows what works for him.

We see lots of great things in OOTP that we are not doing in our games ... yet. We can equally pool ideas from him as he can from us.

Customisation of leagues is something that we've never done, yet we're always asked about it. Maybe this is our chance to implement some of this stuff.

I wouldn't want you to think of SI as some big corporate machine. Four years ago there were just seven of us .. now with the OOTP team it's a little over 30.

Markus has full control over OOTP going forward, just the same as Riz does for EHM.