Career ending Injury suggestion.....

cincyreds · 04-29-2004, 04:52 PM

I am in my 3rd of a 5 year plan on rebuilding my Reds.

I just lost my only 5-star pitcher at AA Ball.

In this day and age where so many pictchers are having Tommy John Surgery. Couldn't we have an option especially on pitchers that whenever they have a career ending injury, instead of losing the player forever. Can't we have an option for them to have Tommy John Surgery??

I know I could edit the injury and just let him rehab and comeback.

But that kind of option would be a nice touch.

Whitey · 04-29-2004, 04:57 PM

I had a fellow with a career ending injury and instead of releasing him I put him on the 60 day DL. He made a miraclous recovery and was okay the next season. It might be a bug but I kicked the imagination in and decided the doctors were just wrong to start with.

cincyreds · 04-29-2004, 08:18 PM

yeah I did that Whitey.

I placed him on the 60-day DL and just imagined him having Tommy John Surgery. He'll be back soon.

UdderlySexyCowz · 04-29-2004, 08:25 PM

Yeah, I have another suggestion for injuries. In my league, David Eckstein got into a bar fight, and was listed as day-to-day. Now lets be honest here, Eckstein is about 5'8" and a buck sixty. If he gets into a bar fight, he's going to be out for a bit more than the four days he was. I demand a weight scale modifier for bar fight injuries, where lighter players are out longer, and the big guys aren't out as long. The lack of this feature totally ruins the game for me, every time I see that day-to-day on Eckstein it brings a tear to my eye, reminding me of the potential this game had until it blew it all by neglecting a bar fight weight scale modifier. So, as a result, unless this feature is put into the next patch, and the patch is released tommorow, I will be going on a hunger strike. And I decline your free beer, I only drink imported.

satchel · 04-29-2004, 08:27 PM

Some players do go through virtual TJ surgery, I think. The game doesn’t say no, but when a player has a season-ending elbow injury, then comes back the next year with and ratings hits (especially in velocity), it’s like he’s had TJ surgery.

tim_uwrf · 04-29-2004, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by satchel
Some players do go through virtual TJ surgery, I think. The game doesn’t say no, but when a player has a season-ending elbow injury, then comes back the next year with and ratings hits (especially in velocity), it’s like he’s had TJ surgery.

But is that accurate? How many times has a pitcher had the TJ surgery and come back better? Hopefully Joe Mays does it, but it has happened elsewhere.

satchel · 04-29-2004, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tim_uwrf
How many times has a pitcher had the TJ surgery and come back better?...it has happened...

Come back from TJ surgery better? That does not happen. Sometimes pitchers who have the surgery become better pitchers than they were before the surgery, through hard work and craftiness. Pitchers come back different from TJS, but they’re not better than before at any time soon after their return.

Mike D · 04-29-2004, 08:40 PM

No, we didn't come back better

Signed,
Kerry Wood and Matt Morris

satchel · 04-29-2004, 08:42 PM

All this talk of ‘better’ is referring to physical tools, I assume. Some variables can throw off what I said. For example if someone who is not yet completely physically developed (say under 26). Then they could get better than they were, by reaching their potential, which they were below at the time they had TJS.

satchel · 04-29-2004, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kerry Wood
No, we didn't come back better

Mr Wood are you saying you are better now than you would have been, had you never needed the surgery in the first place?

jte87 · 04-29-2004, 09:54 PM

There is evidence to suggest a player can come back from TJ surgery a better pitcher than he was before. It's not all craftiness, as some pitchers have higher velocity than before. It is thought that this is because once they get used to pitching again, they have a nice fresh ligament to wear down, rather than pitching with the one that had been abused even before it ripped.

Mike D · 04-29-2004, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by satchel
Mr Wood are you saying you are better now than you would have been, had you never needed the surgery in the first place?

I'm saying yes. Because then, he didn't know how to pitch, he knew how to throw. There is a big difference.

birdsofprey02 · 04-30-2004, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tim_uwrf
But is that accurate? How many times has a pitcher had the TJ surgery and come back better? Hopefully Joe Mays does it, but it has happened elsewhere.

yeah... half the Orioles starting Rotation.

Dubose, Bedard, Riley... all had TJ surgery.

Riley lost punch but Dubose has been great so far... Don't know what he was like before surgery.

Riley was a nice prospect before having surgery, now he's just an o.k. prospect but still making a great recovery none the less.

andymac · 04-30-2004, 02:05 AM

I have never like the idea of a "career-ending injury" because it is usually unknown at the time of the injury whether it will end the player's career or not. Maybe "career-threatening injury" with a hopeful return time listed (i.e. "Career-Threating Injury, hopeful return in a 6-8 months"), would be better with the possibilty of the player retiring if he does not feel he can return at a competitive level. For that matter, I am not a fan of a "Season-Ending" injury either, basically because there is no time-frame involved to tell you whether they are expected back for the beginning of the next season or not.

tward13 · 04-30-2004, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by satchel
Come back from TJ surgery better? That does not happen. Sometimes pitchers who have the surgery become better pitchers than they were before the surgery, through hard work and craftiness. Pitchers come back different from TJS, but they’re not better than before at any time soon after their return.

Yes, pitchers definitely can. Some even have increased velocity. Partly from the new ligament and partly because of all the physical work to rehab.

satchel · 04-30-2004, 10:48 AM

You guys are coming on this board and saying that pitchers are better off for having had major elbow surgery? Think again.

satchel · 04-30-2004, 10:56 AM

Calling all pitchers: let our crack team of surgeons slice open your arm and give you a new, improved elbow. Trust us, you’ll be better than before.

Maybe I should go to the doctor and have him build me a pitching arm. That’s anyone’s ticket to the major leagues. No talent? Go to the doctor, he’ll graft an elbow like Clemens’s onto your arm. From noodle-arm to stud in one easy operation. Are you a slow runner? Let us rebuild your knees too. We can build the perfect ballplayer in the operating room.

satchel · 04-30-2004, 11:04 AM

As it turns out, anyone can be a major-league ballplayer. You just have to be able to afford the procedure. Most insurance plans don’t cover it, but ask your doctor.

Skipaway · 04-30-2004, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by satchel
You guys are coming on this board and saying that pitchers are better off for having had major elbow surgery? Think again.

While you got the common sense, the truth might be something else. There are tons of stories like this that told us pitchers come back stronger after the surgery.

There are different explanations for this, but it definitely happens fairly often.

satchel · 04-30-2004, 12:07 PM

Let’s get the cause-and-effect straight. Some pitchers are better after the surgery, yes, but it’s not because of the surgery. Here are quotes from the article:
Exercises to build the shoulder and forearm make the entire arm stronger...the reason is all the hard work, all the throwing exercises and the development from all the exercises they'd probably never done before...And sometimes, the patient simply matures physically.

04-29-2004, 04:52 PM	#1
cincyreds Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Mississippi Posts: 117	Career ending Injury suggestion..... I am in my 3rd of a 5 year plan on rebuilding my Reds. I just lost my only 5-star pitcher at AA Ball. In this day and age where so many pictchers are having Tommy John Surgery. Couldn't we have an option especially on pitchers that whenever they have a career ending injury, instead of losing the player forever. Can't we have an option for them to have Tommy John Surgery?? I know I could edit the injury and just let him rehab and comeback. But that kind of option would be a nice touch. Last edited by cincyreds; 04-29-2004 at 08:17 PM.

04-29-2004, 04:57 PM	#2
Whitey Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 346	I had a fellow with a career ending injury and instead of releasing him I put him on the 60 day DL. He made a miraclous recovery and was okay the next season. It might be a bug but I kicked the imagination in and decided the doctors were just wrong to start with. __________________ "Thanks for your time this time, until next time, so long." -The Late Great Jack Buck

04-29-2004, 08:27 PM	#5
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	Some players do go through virtual TJ surgery, I think. The game doesn’t say no, but when a player has a season-ending elbow injury, then comes back the next year with and ratings hits (especially in velocity), it’s like he’s had TJ surgery. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

04-29-2004, 08:40 PM	#8
Mike D Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: In a van, down by the river Posts: 2,802	No, we didn't come back better Signed, Kerry Wood and Matt Morris __________________ Sometimes the best laid plans will never get you laid the way you plan.

04-29-2004, 08:42 PM	#9
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	All this talk of ‘better’ is referring to physical tools, I assume. Some variables can throw off what I said. For example if someone who is not yet completely physically developed (say under 26). Then they could get better than they were, by reaching their potential, which they were below at the time they had TJS. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

04-29-2004, 08:18 PM	#3
cincyreds Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Mississippi Posts: 117	yeah I did that Whitey. I placed him on the 60-day DL and just imagined him having Tommy John Surgery. He'll be back soon.

04-29-2004, 08:25 PM	#4
UdderlySexyCowz Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 20	Yeah, I have another suggestion for injuries. In my league, David Eckstein got into a bar fight, and was listed as day-to-day. Now lets be honest here, Eckstein is about 5'8" and a buck sixty. If he gets into a bar fight, he's going to be out for a bit more than the four days he was. I demand a weight scale modifier for bar fight injuries, where lighter players are out longer, and the big guys aren't out as long. The lack of this feature totally ruins the game for me, every time I see that day-to-day on Eckstein it brings a tear to my eye, reminding me of the potential this game had until it blew it all by neglecting a bar fight weight scale modifier. So, as a result, unless this feature is put into the next patch, and the patch is released tommorow, I will be going on a hunger strike. And I decline your free beer, I only drink imported.

04-29-2004, 09:54 PM	#11
jte87 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 305	There is evidence to suggest a player can come back from TJ surgery a better pitcher than he was before. It's not all craftiness, as some pitchers have higher velocity than before. It is thought that this is because once they get used to pitching again, they have a nice fresh ligament to wear down, rather than pitching with the one that had been abused even before it ripped.

04-30-2004, 02:05 AM	#14
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	I have never like the idea of a "career-ending injury" because it is usually unknown at the time of the injury whether it will end the player's career or not. Maybe "career-threatening injury" with a hopeful return time listed (i.e. "Career-Threating Injury, hopeful return in a 6-8 months"), would be better with the possibilty of the player retiring if he does not feel he can return at a competitive level. For that matter, I am not a fan of a "Season-Ending" injury either, basically because there is no time-frame involved to tell you whether they are expected back for the beginning of the next season or not. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac Last edited by andymac; 04-30-2004 at 02:17 AM.

04-30-2004, 10:48 AM	#16
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	You guys are coming on this board and saying that pitchers are better off for having had major elbow surgery? Think again. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

04-30-2004, 10:56 AM	#17
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	Calling all pitchers: let our crack team of surgeons slice open your arm and give you a new, improved elbow. Trust us, you’ll be better than before. Maybe I should go to the doctor and have him build me a pitching arm. That’s anyone’s ticket to the major leagues. No talent? Go to the doctor, he’ll graft an elbow like Clemens’s onto your arm. From noodle-arm to stud in one easy operation. Are you a slow runner? Let us rebuild your knees too. We can build the perfect ballplayer in the operating room. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

04-30-2004, 11:04 AM	#18
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	As it turns out, anyone can be a major-league ballplayer. You just have to be able to afford the procedure. Most insurance plans don’t cover it, but ask your doctor. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

04-30-2004, 12:07 PM	#20
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	Let’s get the cause-and-effect straight. Some pitchers are better after the surgery, yes, but it’s not because of the surgery. Here are quotes from the article: Exercises to build the shoulder and forearm make the entire arm stronger...the reason is all the hard work, all the throwing exercises and the development from all the exercises they'd probably never done before...And sometimes, the patient simply matures physically. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59