Ratings?

[sport_4141]

I hate to be a newbie, but what exactly do these pitching catergories affect:

Stuff?
Movement?
Control (I suspect this to be avoiding walks)?
Velocity?


Thanks!

Blake

[GoldenGlove]

Stuff relates mostly to K's. Control affects walks and K's somewhat. Movement affects homeruns allowed. Velocity affects K's somewhat.

[dougk62]

Originally posted by GoldenGlove
Stuff relates mostly to K's. Control affects walks and K's somewhat. Movement affects homeruns allowed. Velocity affects K's somewhat.

Hate to burst you bubble here, but the data just doessn't support what you are claiming.

I'm still early on in my test sims, but I'm pretty certain you are incorrect in you analysis of the effect of the Velocity rating.

I am prepared to conclude that the Velocity rating is purely cosmetic in the new engine (at least in Version 6.01).


I simmed a 40 team 162 game season with identical pitchers and batters. Sim 1 had pitcher rated 7 in Velocity. Sim 2 had pitchers rated 4 in Velocity.

(sorry, I can never figure out how to get this to look like a table)

SIM 1 SIM 2


AB 227756 228577
H 61007 61530
AVG 0.2679 0.2692
HR 575 5889
HR/550 AB 13.9 14.2
BB 19439 19727
BB/550 AB 46.9 47.5
K 54281 54268
K/550 AB 131.1 130.6


It's only one test, but looks pretty conclusive to me. I'm more interested in the relationships of other ratings right now to run any more test sims, but I'm fairly confident in just this one run that Velocity is cosmetic right now.

[treedom]

Originally posted by dougk62
(sorry, I can never figure out how to get this to look like a table)

use the code /code tags inside square brackets...

		SIM 1		SIM 2


AB		227756		228577                    
H		6100		61530
AVG		0.2679		0.2692
HR		575		5889
HR/550 AB	13.9		14.2 	
BB		19439		19727
BB/550 AB	46.9		47.5
K		54281		54268	
K/550 AB	131.1		130.6

[treedom]

if every pitcher was rated at the same velocity i wouldn't expect you to see any difference between them...the overal league totals should be locked to the era settings in all cases...i think a better test would be to have some pitchers at a low velocity setting and some at a high one in the same sim and then see how they compare to eachother...

[dougk62]

Originally posted by treedom
if every pitcher was rated at the same velocity i wouldn't expect you to see any difference between them...the overal league totals should be locked to the era settings in all cases...i think a better test would be to have some pitchers at a low velocity setting and some at a high one in the same sim and then see how they compare to eachother...

I understand what you are trying to say here, I'm not convinced it is entirely the case. If that were the case, an identical test where the variable changed was Stuff instead of Velocity would in theory provide identical results as well. Right? That is not the case though. Changeing stuff effects batting average and K's significantly.

I'll gather a few runs and try the table thing.

[treedom]

Well if that's the case then I don't understand how the era settings work at all. I thought that if you set say 100 HR per 1000 AB, you would get that rate no matter if all the hitters had a HR rating of 1 or 10 (on a 1-10 scale). Admitedly, I've never fooled around much with them, so it wouldn't be surprising if I was way off on this.

Originally posted by treedom
if every pitcher was rated at the same velocity i wouldn't expect you to see any difference between them...the overal league totals should be locked to the era settings in all cases...i think a better test would be to have some pitchers at a low velocity setting and some at a high one in the same sim and then see how they compare to eachother...

What I would do if I cared enough to know how much the velocity rating meant... is make two identical leagues.

In league one, sim it for 5 years as is.

In league two, put half the pitchers [preferrably poor K pitchers from sim one] at a high velocity and half [preferably good K pitchers from sim one] at a low velocity then sim for the same 5 years.

Then compare pitchers individually.

Jase

[dougk62]

Originally posted by treedom
Well if that's the case then I don't understand how the era settings work at all. I thought that if you set say 100 HR per 1000 AB, you would get that rate no matter if all the hitters had a HR rating of 1 or 10 (on a 1-10 scale).

Don't feel bad, nobody else does either.

I think they will be gone by 7.0. There really isn't much need to use them now that everything else is customizable. You did make me think for a few minutes about the validity of what I am trying to do. I've been running test sims now since the game came out to see the correlation of the ratings to the stats and I'm fairly confident my methods are sound. I lack the ability to analize my data to the proper extent though.

[dougk62]

	            SIM 1	SIM 2            SIM 3
Stuff             55           65               75

AB                231723	227756           226091                 
H	          65229	       61007             57862           
AVG	          0.2815        0.2679            0.2559
HR	          6043	       5758               5800
HR/550 AB         14.3	       13.9               14.1 	
BB	          19951	       19439             19477
BB/550 AB         47.4	       46.9               47.4
K	          47618	       54281             60326	
K/550 AB	 113.0	       131.1              146.8

(I gotta learn HTML someday)

These are the results of 3 identical season long 40 team 162 game sims where the only difference was the pitchers Stuff Ratings.

I'm failrly confident saying that Stuff will not effect HR's and BB's allowed, but will increase K's by a rather large marging. It will also reduce opponents batting averages, probably because of the increase in strikeouts.

That would lead me to believe the era setting don't effect things to a degree taht the test sims I'm running are invalid. I think changing the setting swould change the numbers, but not the relationships between the numbers that I am seeing.

[treedom]

control not affecting BBs? that's it, i am officially and totally confuzled!

[dougk62]

Originally posted by treedom
control not affecting BBs? that's it, i am officially and totally confuzled!

OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry. I'll edit the post. I was changing Stuff in that test, not Control. I haven't made it to control yet.

Gather yourself together and stay enlightened. Don't let my misuse of a word bother you.

Does the data presented lead you to make a conclusion as to what would happen if Stuff were change to 45? How about 35? I'll bet your guesses would be correct.

[jbmagic]

Gforce22 posted this at simcentral forum dated 4/18/04

"Markus sent this to me before my relationship with OOTPDev ended. I believe he since eliminated the poise rating though.

GH

Batting Ratings:
- Contact (basically it's batting AVG, but this is also influenced by the Eye rating)
- Power (Homeruns)
- Gap power (Tendency to hit the ball into the gaps... wether it's a double or triple depends on running speed and instincts)
- Eye (Walks and influences AVG a bit as well)

Pitching Ratings:
- Stuff (heavily influences the ability to strike out batters and prevent HRs)
- Control (walks + little bit of K's and HR's)
- Velocity (influences K's)
- Poise (influences the big picture... younger pitchers may have great stuff but no idea how to use it, while old veterans are losing velocity but still can pitch effectively with a high poise rating)
- One duration/endurance rating

All pitching and batting ratings are available as VsR, VsL, and Overall... as well as talent/potential.

Defense ratings:
- Outfield arm, catcher arm and infield arm (important for 3B and SS... and 2B if your name is Knoblauch )
- Range
- Error Pct

Running Ratings:
- Running Speed
- Stealing instincts
- Overall baserunning instincts (guys with higher ratings get thrown out on the bases less and are more successful taking an extra base)"

[treedom]

Originally posted by dougk62
OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry. I'll edit the post. I was changing Stuff in that test, not Control. I haven't made it to control yet.

Gather yourself together and stay enlightened. Don't let my misuse of a word bother you.

Does the data presented lead you to make a conclusion as to what would happen if Stuff were change to 45? How about 35? I'll bet your guesses would be correct.

okay...stuff...that makes more sense now...

i'm still pretty surprised that the era ratings don't work the way i thought they did though what exactly DO they do, then?

[IatricSB]

Originally posted by dougk62
I think they will be gone by 7.0. There really isn't much need to use them now that everything else is customizable. You did make me think for a few minutes about the validity of what I am trying to do. I've been running test sims now since the game came out to see the correlation of the ratings to the stats and I'm fairly confident my methods are sound. I lack the ability to analize my data to the proper extent though.

Bite your tongue

Era settings are one of the most important things used by historical leagues IMO. And even non-historical leagues could make better use of them. I chuckle everytime I see someone complain about batting averages being too high or low, too many home runs or too few, etc. All it takes is an adjustment of the era numbers and you get more realistically acceptable numbers.

For me at least, the day era settings are removed is the day I quit playing OOTP.

[dougk62]

I hate to sound sacreligious here, but sometimes you should take what Markus says and if it is possible to verify it with data, then do so. What he says is useful to give one an expectation, but "everything" he says isn't absolute gospel. Maybe those are his intentions. Maybe he changed a thing or two. Maybe slight to him, is really stastically insignificant to the results.

I'm confident in saying Stuff has no impact in HR's allowed, regardless of what Markus may have said at one time in the past. I'm confident now, to state that the relationship between K's/opponents BA and Stuff is linear and that is the only thing Stuff effects. I've done the research. I'm sharing it so others won't have to do it all over again. I'm sure others will do it anyway (I know I would). I'd be interested in seeing what they find.

[IatricSB]

Originally posted by treedom
i'm still pretty surprised that the era ratings don't work the way i thought they did though what exactly DO they do, then?

If you have a category that is off (say too many HRs in the league), just increase the number of HRs in the era settings. Though this may sound counter-intuitive, someone posted a great example of why it actually makes sense (I tried but it sounded confusing so I erased it).

[dougk62]

Originally posted by IatricSB
Bite your tongue

Era settings are one of the most important things used by historical leagues IMO. And even non-historical leagues could make better use of them. I chuckle everytime I see someone complain about batting averages being too high or low, too many home runs or too few, etc. All it takes is an adjustment of the era numbers and you get more realistically acceptable numbers.

For me at least, the day era settings are removed is the day I quit playing OOTP.

I used the term Era settings only because treedom did. I'm sure what we were both talking about was the "League Totals". That is what I think will be gone. You are right, Era setting must stay.

[IatricSB]

What do you mean by "League Totals"?

[treedom]

Originally posted by IatricSB
If you have a category that is off (say too many HRs in the league), just increase the number of HRs in the era settings. Though this may sound counter-intuitive, someone posted a great example of why it actually makes sense (I tried but it sounded confusing so I erased it).

That I did know. I know how to use them and what they do. I was trying to figure out how they worked 'under the hood'. I guess I thought that those settings were the final determinant in what the overall league numbers look like, but dougk62 showed that they can be overriden by changing the player ratings.

It's more confusing the more I think about it. If these settings can affect the overall strikeout totals in a league, this means that they do influence how many strikeouts a pitcher will get, despite his ratings, no? But it has also been shown that changing the ratings also affects the totals.