another great Joe Morgan insight

[CubsSox]

Most baseball observers say, and I would agree, that A-Rod is a better shortstop than Derek Jeter. But that doesn't mean he should be playing shortstop for the Yankees. Jeter is a quality shortstop, and he's been the shortstop on four New York championship teams. He should remain the Yankee shortstop.

That's from Morgan's latest column on espn.com... and lets compare his analysis to Baseball Prospectus who has proven Jeter's range is one of the league's worst.

[Raderick]

Joe Morgan alias is 3...2...1...

[Gastric ReFlux]

Joe's right. You can't replace winning ways with a numbnuts like A-rod.

[CommishJoe]

First, to reply to Morgan's quote ... ugh!

Now, to reply to the decision to move A-Rod, I actually agree with it now (I hated it when I first heard about it). Here's why ... Jeter's reflexes stink. It's generally thought that his slow "first step" is what causes his range to bite. Can you imagine what those slow reflexes would do at 3b??? A-Rod is the better athlete, the better hitter, heck the better everything. He had the greater chance to successfully make the move then Jeter did.

Would I love to have A-Rod at SS? Sure, but only if we had a real 3b and move Jeter to 2b. I'd rather have Jeter at SS and A-Rod at 3rd then the other way around. Who knows, maybe when Boone comes back from knee surgery they'll make the move

[mlyons]

CommishJoe's right. I wouldn't argue with anyone who says that A-Rod is a better defensive shortstop than Jeter, and if one of them was going to DH, for example, I would rather it be Jeter. That being said, A-Rod will be a much better third baseman than Jeter could ever be, both for the reasons Joe said (it would highlight his defensive weaknesses such as slow reflexes) and because it would take away his few defensive strengths (his ability to range into the outfield to catch fly balls and his ability to turn the double play). I think, frankly, Jeter would be a lousy third baseman, and I think the Yanks are better off with a mediocre shortstop and a (potentially) great third baseman than a great shortstop and an awful third baseman.

Jeter's going to be the Yankee shortstop as long as he wants to be. No manager would dare tell him to move. Unless he pulls a Ripken towards the end of his career and decides on his own to change positions (maybe to the outfield?), this controversy's going to go on.

[draven085]

Originally posted by mlyons
I think, frankly, Jeter would be a lousy third baseman, and I think the Yanks are better off with a mediocre shortstop and a (potentially) great third baseman than a great shortstop and an awful third baseman.

As a Red Sox fan I couldn't agree more. It makes no sense at all to play the superior defender at the far less important defensive position. I hope the Yanks are stupid enough to leave Jeter at short until he retires. I'm assuming they will since they did the same thing with Williams in CF.

[ctorg]

So I guess, in OOTP, or at least OOTP5, terms, we could look at it like this...

Jeter: SS C, 3b E
ARod: SS B, 3b:C

Maybe my ratings are off, but I'm being conservative here. Which combo do you use?

[Gastric ReFlux]

Originally posted by mlyons
CommishJoe's right. I wouldn't argue with anyone who says that A-Rod is a better defensive shortstop than Jeter, and if one of them was going to DH, for example, I would rather it be Jeter. That being said, A-Rod will be a much better third baseman than Jeter could ever be, both for the reasons Joe said (it would highlight his defensive weaknesses such as slow reflexes) and because it would take away his few defensive strengths (his ability to range into the outfield to catch fly balls and his ability to turn the double play). I think, frankly, Jeter would be a lousy third baseman, and I think the Yanks are better off with a mediocre shortstop and a (potentially) great third baseman than a great shortstop and an awful third baseman.

Jeter's going to be the Yankee shortstop as long as he wants to be. No manager would dare tell him to move. Unless he pulls a Ripken towards the end of his career and decides on his own to change positions (maybe to the outfield?), this controversy's going to go on.

I don't understand this reasoning at all. You and Commishjoe are saying that you would prefer to have a gaping defensive hole at shortstop over potential mediocrity at 3rd base?

[JWay]

move arod to ss!!!

[jaxmagicman]

Originally posted by ctorg
So I guess, in OOTP, or at least OOTP5, terms, we could look at it like this...

Jeter: SS -, 3b E
ARod: SS B, 3b:C

Maybe my ratings are off, but I'm being conservative here. Which combo do you use?

Fixed.

[jblaze03fuel]

Trade Arod, please....so I can watch another baseball games someday besides the Indians.

[AngelinOF]

Wasn't the idea to move Jeter to 2B and just have Enrique play 3B? Its seems to me like this would make sense, the main knock against Jeter is that he has limited range to his right but decent range to his left, as in more than 3 steps.

[MrWorkrate]

The only issue with moving Wilson to third is that he's not really that good of a third baseman either. As ideal as it'd be to have A-Rod at short, the question is really which is worse, having Jeter at short (where he's at least familiar with the position) and A-Rod at third, with Wilson at 2nd, or stick Wilson at third with A-Rod at short and Jeter at 2nd.

Wilson's not a good third baseman. While he makes an average amount of errors at third, he has below average range. According to baseball-reference.com's range factors, Wilson's career range against league average at 3rd is worse than Jeter's at short. Wilson's best position seems to be second, but he doesn't seem to really play any position well, and with his hitting skills, I'm not sure what keeps him on the roster.

The ideal would be for A-Rod to play short and Jeter second, but as the Yankees found out this past offseason, finding someone to play third isn't that easy. Mike Lamb had decent range but bled errors like an open wound. Tyler Houston was an all-around mediocre fielder (and apparently not a clubhouse guy). Neither one is still around.

Personally, I'd love to see Brian Myrow get a shot. He hadn't played above AA until this season, but he can apparently hit. He's 27, and wouldn't necessarily be a bad story coming up. He's hit a bit at Columbus so far, but your guess is as good as mine if he could handle major league pitching.

But in reality, it'll be the way it is now until Milwaukee's asking price is right and the Yankees take Junior Spivey (whose asking price is too high, I'm sure, right now) or Craig Counsell (who the Yankees are probably not seeing as much better than Wilson right now). I think they could get Counsell decently cheap from Milwaukee right now (a multi-million dollar utility infielder isn't a strong Milwaukee need right now), but as I mentioned, I don't think the Yankees see Counsell as better than Wilson.

[metball4]

I think Jeter should move to 2nd, A-rod to SS, and then they can go get Jeff Kent or Bret Boone..maybe Jose Vidro if they're desperate.

[BigBambino]

Where would Kent, Boone or Vidro play if they move Jeter to 2B?

[mlyons]

Originally posted by Gastric ReFlux
I don't understand this reasoning at all. You and Commishjoe are saying that you would prefer to have a gaping defensive hole at shortstop over potential mediocrity at 3rd base?

No, just the opposite. I'm saying I would rather have mediocrity at shortstop than a gaping hole at third base. Jeter is adequate at short (and to all those people who would describe him as a gaping hole at shortstop, I would remind you that the Yankees have won a lot of games with him at shortstop, so either he's not that bad or shortstop isn't a very important position; take your pick), but I think he would be awful at third. A-Rod's going to be good (given time) at any position on the baseball diamond -- if the Yankees had needed a center fielder, they probably could have moved him there, instead.

[draven085]

Originally posted by mlyons
No, just the opposite. I'm saying I would rather have mediocrity at shortstop than a gaping hole at third base. Jeter is adequate at short (and to all those people who would describe him as a gaping hole at shortstop, I would remind you that the Yankees have won a lot of games with him at shortstop, so either he's not that bad or shortstop isn't a very important position; take your pick), but I think he would be awful at third. A-Rod's going to be good (given time) at any position on the baseball diamond -- if the Yankees had needed a center fielder, they probably could have moved him there, instead.

So you're defining Jeter's defensive ability at shortstop and/or the importance of defense at shortstop based on his team's success? That's a new way to look at it. Perhaps the Yankees have had other strenghts that compensated for Jeter's wretched defense.

I highly doubt Jeter would be a gaping hole at third base. A player's range tends to increase as he moves down on the defensive spectrum. My guess is he'd be an average thirdbaseman. As a Sox fan, the Yankees' stupidity delights me.

[crackpott]

Originally posted by draven085
So you're defining Jeter's defensive ability at shortstop and/or the importance of defense at shortstop based on his team's success? That's a new way to look at it. Perhaps the Yankees have had other strenghts that compensated for Jeter's wretched defense.

I highly doubt Jeter would be a gaping hole at third base. A player's range tends to increase as he moves down on the defensive spectrum. My guess is he'd be an average thirdbaseman. As a Sox fan, the Yankees' stupidity delights me.

I agree Jeter could be average at third. Mainly because his biggest weakness, ranging to the right, is not needed nearly as much with that whole foul territory thing. They could play him closer to the line since A-Rod could cover a good deal of ground at short, and be fine.

But A-Rod wouldn't be able to make the best play in history by shoveling a throw to the catcher who probably could have gotten it himself and dove for the tag in the same amount of time.

[AngelinOF]

And had a certain "Giambi" just friggin' slid then that would of been a moot play but as it is now he is going to be able to reap the rewards of that one play for the rest of his career.

[mlyons]

Originally posted by crackpott
I agree Jeter could be average at third. Mainly because his biggest weakness, ranging to the right, is not needed nearly as much with that whole foul territory thing. They could play him closer to the line since A-Rod could cover a good deal of ground at short, and be fine.

If you think his defensive problems are caused by a lack of range to the right, then your reasoning is sound. Personally, I think the whole "no range to his right" thing is a fallacy (ironically enough, the person I've heard talk about it the most is Joe Morgan). It's not like he has great range to his left, either, after all. As I've said before, I think his biggest defensive weakness is a slow reaction to the ball coming off the bat. This is a problem at short, but a much, much bigger problem at third.