Foul! Foul! Foul! Foul! I'll show you foul!

Radsmats · 04-21-2004, 02:54 PM

Is there any way the good folks at OOTP can cut down on the play-by-play lines devoted to a foul ball? I don't mind seeing this once in a while:
"Here's Smith with the pitch...
A big cut by Jones ...
It's drifting foul down the right-field line ...
White is running hard ...
He dives ...
But it's just out of his reach ...
Foul ball ...
The count stays at 3 and 2."

But by the 12th time in an at-bat, it gets OLD, especially because almost no one ever catches a foul.
Especially because I can't do anything (steal, hit & run) with two strikes, so I just keep hitting the "swing away" button. What's wrong with a strike-him-out-throw-him-out double play?
I'd much rather see one-line play-by-play on routine fouls.
(Sliced foul ... hooked foul ... bounced foul ... fouled off ... fouled straight back). Then when you got the full description, it would be a change of pace, instead of a drag on the flow of the game. (If you don't think this is a problem, try running a dead-ball league, where nobody ever strikes out. Zzzzzzzzzzzz.)
Thanks

Gastric ReFlux · 04-21-2004, 02:56 PM

For that matter, why can't we ever argue with the umps about foul balls?

Bald Eagles · 04-21-2004, 05:38 PM

I would like to see a more diverse pbp on fouls. More foul-outs, balls rolling over bags and the fielding manager argues it, fouled back to the screen (and/or the booth), etc.

In addition, the repetition is too much (12 fouls in a row!?)

Bald Eagles · 04-21-2004, 05:50 PM

Darned double posting. I hope they also expand the arguments to save the player, and sometimes have the ruling overturned. Overturning happened in v4, but yet to see it in v5. I only argued once in v6, and I was sent back to the dugout.

rdklein · 04-21-2004, 05:58 PM

I agree... One line to inform readers that it's foul will do. It's a foul ball - no need for suspense. Unless of course it's the foul/fair home run (or possible extra base it), that can stay in.

I couldn't imagine having to sit through the foul ball pBp in the dead-ball era... that must be brutal!

Klaatulou · 04-21-2004, 05:59 PM

Wow! I'm glad I'm not the only one that has a problem with this. For a game that doesn't employ pitch by pitch, the foul ball situation is ridiculous. My record is 13 straight foul balls in an at bat. Foul balls are fine, but maybe the PBP can say something like, "four straight foul balls" in one statement? I have rarely seen only one foul ball hit; usually it is at least four and usually more. To me, this really messes up the flow of the game for those that play out every contest.

cshigh · 04-21-2004, 06:29 PM

The more foul balls the better. Adds realism to the game, and it doesn't take that long to play through it.

drprestwood · 04-21-2004, 09:01 PM

This has been a complaint of a lot of people...for a long time.

Steve Kuffrey · 04-21-2004, 09:25 PM

I don't know if I'd say "alot of people", maybe a group of vocal people.

crackpott · 04-21-2004, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey
I don't know if I'd say "alot of people", maybe a group of vocal people.

The rest of us who don't complain about it just deal with it.

There has to be SOMETHING wrong in the code (in my opinion) for a player to foul off so many consecutive pitches. I seem to get 10 in a row at the same frequency as 2-3.

Henry · 04-21-2004, 10:06 PM

Just played out three games and tracked the foul balls...

Game 1 (Total of 13 fouls)
..Bottom of 2nd - 1 foul ball
..Top of 3rd - 1 foul ball
..Top of 4th - 1 foul ball
..Top of 5th - 1 foul ball
..Top of 7th - 1 foul ball, 1 foul ball
..Top of 8th - 3 foul balls
..Bottom of 8th - 3 foul balls with bases loaded
..Top of 9th - 1 foul ball

Game 2 (Total of 11 fouls)
..Top of 2nd - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 3rd - 3 foul balls, 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 5th - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 6th - 2 foul balls, 1 foul ball
..Top of 7th - 1 foul ball
..Top of 8th - 1 foul ball

Game 3 (Total of 23 fouls)
..Top of nd - 1 foul ball, 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 2nd - 3 foul balls
..Top of 3rd - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 3rd - 1 foul ball
..Top of 4th - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 4th - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 5th - 7 foul balls ends in strikeout with two on base
..Bottom of 7th - 1 foul ball
..Top of 8th - 2 foul balls
..Bottom of 8th - 2 foul balls
..Bottom of 9th - 2 foul balls

Seems reasonable to me... mostly single fouls, a few threes, and one 7 foul string. Personally, I like them. Frustrating, yes.. the same kind of frustrating when I watch the same thing happen at the ballpark.

I guess I jut don't see it as a big issue.... (2 cents worth)

Henry

crackpott · 04-21-2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Henry
Just played out three games and tracked the foul balls...

Game 1 (Total of 13 fouls)
..Bottom of 2nd - 1 foul ball
..Top of 3rd - 1 foul ball
..Top of 4th - 1 foul ball
..Top of 5th - 1 foul ball
..Top of 7th - 1 foul ball, 1 foul ball
..Top of 8th - 3 foul balls
..Bottom of 8th - 3 foul balls with bases loaded
..Top of 9th - 1 foul ball

Game 2 (Total of 11 fouls)
..Top of 2nd - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 3rd - 3 foul balls, 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 5th - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 6th - 2 foul balls, 1 foul ball
..Top of 7th - 1 foul ball
..Top of 8th - 1 foul ball

Game 3 (Total of 23 fouls)
..Top of nd - 1 foul ball, 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 2nd - 3 foul balls
..Top of 3rd - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 3rd - 1 foul ball
..Top of 4th - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 4th - 1 foul ball
..Bottom of 5th - 7 foul balls ends in strikeout with two on base
..Bottom of 7th - 1 foul ball
..Top of 8th - 2 foul balls
..Bottom of 8th - 2 foul balls
..Bottom of 9th - 2 foul balls

Seems reasonable to me... mostly single fouls, a few threes, and one 7 foul string. Personally, I like them. Frustrating, yes.. the same kind of frustrating when I watch the same thing happen at the ballpark.

I guess I jut don't see it as a big issue.... (2 cents worth)

Henry

7 is still fairly unreasonable... I can't think of how often that happens. Still, overall your experience does seem alright, and I know I'm basing my claims on OOTP5, so I'm not sure how valid they are. Keep in mind though Henry that your experiences don't necessarily translate to everyone elses. I just don't actively complain cause although annoying, I can deal with hitting 1 a few times.

BleedDodgerBlue · 04-21-2004, 10:17 PM

My issue isn't so much the number of fouls, it's the unrealistic player actions associated with them.

I see a LOT of "foul ball, Beltre is there, but the ball is 10 rows back," or diving foul attempts at the foul line where balls go out of play.

It's like...most baseball players are going to be capable of determining whether or not a ball looks like it's going to be playable. They may get over in the area if it's borderline, but you don't see the catcher tearing for the screen on a ball that gets fouled into the top deck at Dodger Stadium, for example.

Eh, just my 2.5 cents (adjusted for inflation)

AZTarHeel · 04-21-2004, 10:23 PM

I don't think it's unreasonable... I've seen games where a batter or two fouls one off 7-10 times... It's part of the drama of the best one-on-one battle in sports --> the pitcher vs. batter duel...

The only time I hate it is when I've got a pitcher bordering on tired and don't want to see his pitch count soar any more...

Henry · 04-21-2004, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BleedDodgerBlue
My issue isn't so much the number of fouls, it's the unrealistic player actions associated with them.

I see a LOT of "foul ball, Beltre is there, but the ball is 10 rows back," or diving foul attempts at the foul line where balls go out of play.

It's like...most baseball players are going to be capable of determining whether or not a ball looks like it's going to be playable. They may get over in the area if it's borderline, but you don't see the catcher tearing for the screen on a ball that gets fouled into the top deck at Dodger Stadium, for example.

Eh, just my 2.5 cents (adjusted for inflation)

I understand, but that's a play by play description issue - something Craig has being worked on and which will get better as time progreses

I try to "read past" those issues for now.

Henry

Henry · 04-21-2004, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crackpott
7 is still fairly unreasonable... I can't think of how often that happens. Still, overall your experience does seem alright, and I know I'm basing my claims on OOTP5, so I'm not sure how valid they are. Keep in mind though Henry that your experiences don't necessarily translate to everyone elses. I just don't actively complain cause although annoying, I can deal with hitting 1 a few times.

LOL... not that anyone would think I'm annoying too

Henry

Klaatulou · 04-21-2004, 10:30 PM

Wait....isn't this game based upon results with a "One Pitch" mode? By listing seven consecutive fouls, it becomes more of a pitch by pitch sim. I think we should have the option.

Eugene Church · 04-21-2004, 10:40 PM

I have asked that the foul ball mode be optional. I also discovered that it doesn't happen as much as I thought when I kept track of it. For me personally, I don't like the foul balls, but I just accept it. Many others like it.

I am really looking forward to the day when a RF or LF finally makes OOTPB history by catching one of those many frustrating foul balls. It is one of the many missing plays in the game. 2B and SS never catch foul balls, either. I think they are smarter than the outfielders (I was an infielder, of course)...they don't even try to catch a foul ball.

But, hey...We just got home field advantage today and we'll get other things that we all want whenever Markus gets the time.

Give us a one pitch mode and this would make me happy...also give us a pitch-by-pitch option, too. And make everybody happy...Maybe? ....on second thought, it's impossible to make everyone happy.

BleedDodgerBlue · 04-21-2004, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Henry
I understand, but that's a play by play description issue - something Craig has being worked on and which will get better as time progresses I try to "read past" those issues for now.

Yeah, but I'm not convinced better description is going to help, unless part of the description is following the "less is more" theory. Like, some of them will just say "fouled off, out of play" or "fouled off, that one's in the second deck," and some of them are actually balls that *might* be playable for a corner infielder or OFer.

Otherwise, it's the same, only MORE so, y'know?

jazzrack · 04-21-2004, 11:16 PM

I like it when my players have long foul ball ab's, it adds to the tension and if its my pitcher you have to start thinking about pitch counts.

IMO its better than a pitch count jumping by 13-14 pitches with only 1 foul ball description

04-21-2004, 02:54 PM	#1
Radsmats Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wellville Posts: 183	Foul! Foul! Foul! Foul! I'll show you foul! Is there any way the good folks at OOTP can cut down on the play-by-play lines devoted to a foul ball? I don't mind seeing this once in a while: "Here's Smith with the pitch... A big cut by Jones ... It's drifting foul down the right-field line ... White is running hard ... He dives ... But it's just out of his reach ... Foul ball ... The count stays at 3 and 2." But by the 12th time in an at-bat, it gets OLD, especially because almost no one ever catches a foul. Especially because I can't do anything (steal, hit & run) with two strikes, so I just keep hitting the "swing away" button. What's wrong with a strike-him-out-throw-him-out double play? I'd much rather see one-line play-by-play on routine fouls. (Sliced foul ... hooked foul ... bounced foul ... fouled off ... fouled straight back). Then when you got the full description, it would be a change of pace, instead of a drag on the flow of the game. (If you don't think this is a problem, try running a dead-ball league, where nobody ever strikes out. Zzzzzzzzzzzz.) Thanks

04-21-2004, 05:50 PM	#4
Bald Eagles Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Waveland & Sheffield Posts: 402	Darned double posting. I hope they also expand the arguments to save the player, and sometimes have the ruling overturned. Overturning happened in v4, but yet to see it in v5. I only argued once in v6, and I was sent back to the dugout. Last edited by Bald Eagles; 04-21-2004 at 05:57 PM.

04-21-2004, 09:25 PM	#9
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	I don't know if I'd say "alot of people", maybe a group of vocal people. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

04-21-2004, 10:40 PM	#18
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,060	I have asked that the foul ball mode be optional. I also discovered that it doesn't happen as much as I thought when I kept track of it. For me personally, I don't like the foul balls, but I just accept it. Many others like it. I am really looking forward to the day when a RF or LF finally makes OOTPB history by catching one of those many frustrating foul balls. It is one of the many missing plays in the game. 2B and SS never catch foul balls, either. I think they are smarter than the outfielders (I was an infielder, of course)...they don't even try to catch a foul ball. But, hey...We just got home field advantage today and we'll get other things that we all want whenever Markus gets the time. Give us a one pitch mode and this would make me happy...also give us a pitch-by-pitch option, too. And make everybody happy...Maybe? ....on second thought, it's impossible to make everyone happy. Last edited by Eugene Church; 04-21-2004 at 10:43 PM.

04-21-2004, 11:16 PM	#20
jazzrack Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: still kicking Posts: 3,229	I like it when my players have long foul ball ab's, it adds to the tension and if its my pitcher you have to start thinking about pitch counts. IMO its better than a pitch count jumping by 13-14 pitches with only 1 foul ball description __________________ . "Never confuse composure for ease" Was once Head Cheese of Corporate League Baseball

04-21-2004, 02:56 PM	#2
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	For that matter, why can't we ever argue with the umps about foul balls?

04-21-2004, 05:38 PM	#3
Bald Eagles Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Waveland & Sheffield Posts: 402	I would like to see a more diverse pbp on fouls. More foul-outs, balls rolling over bags and the fielding manager argues it, fouled back to the screen (and/or the booth), etc. In addition, the repetition is too much (12 fouls in a row!?)

04-21-2004, 05:58 PM	#5
rdklein All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The other side. Posts: 773	I agree... One line to inform readers that it's foul will do. It's a foul ball - no need for suspense. Unless of course it's the foul/fair home run (or possible extra base it), that can stay in. I couldn't imagine having to sit through the foul ball pBp in the dead-ball era... that must be brutal!

04-21-2004, 05:59 PM	#6
Klaatulou Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hays, KS Posts: 21	Wow! I'm glad I'm not the only one that has a problem with this. For a game that doesn't employ pitch by pitch, the foul ball situation is ridiculous. My record is 13 straight foul balls in an at bat. Foul balls are fine, but maybe the PBP can say something like, "four straight foul balls" in one statement? I have rarely seen only one foul ball hit; usually it is at least four and usually more. To me, this really messes up the flow of the game for those that play out every contest.

04-21-2004, 06:29 PM	#7
cshigh All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ludlow, KY Posts: 508	The more foul balls the better. Adds realism to the game, and it doesn't take that long to play through it.

04-21-2004, 09:01 PM	#8
drprestwood All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,501	This has been a complaint of a lot of people...for a long time.

04-21-2004, 10:06 PM	#11
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Just played out three games and tracked the foul balls... Game 1 (Total of 13 fouls) ..Bottom of 2nd - 1 foul ball ..Top of 3rd - 1 foul ball ..Top of 4th - 1 foul ball ..Top of 5th - 1 foul ball ..Top of 7th - 1 foul ball, 1 foul ball ..Top of 8th - 3 foul balls ..Bottom of 8th - 3 foul balls with bases loaded ..Top of 9th - 1 foul ball Game 2 (Total of 11 fouls) ..Top of 2nd - 1 foul ball ..Bottom of 3rd - 3 foul balls, 1 foul ball ..Bottom of 5th - 1 foul ball ..Bottom of 6th - 2 foul balls, 1 foul ball ..Top of 7th - 1 foul ball ..Top of 8th - 1 foul ball Game 3 (Total of 23 fouls) ..Top of nd - 1 foul ball, 1 foul ball ..Bottom of 2nd - 3 foul balls ..Top of 3rd - 1 foul ball ..Bottom of 3rd - 1 foul ball ..Top of 4th - 1 foul ball ..Bottom of 4th - 1 foul ball ..Bottom of 5th - 7 foul balls ends in strikeout with two on base ..Bottom of 7th - 1 foul ball ..Top of 8th - 2 foul balls ..Bottom of 8th - 2 foul balls ..Bottom of 9th - 2 foul balls Seems reasonable to me... mostly single fouls, a few threes, and one 7 foul string. Personally, I like them. Frustrating, yes.. the same kind of frustrating when I watch the same thing happen at the ballpark. I guess I jut don't see it as a big issue.... (2 cents worth) Henry

04-21-2004, 10:17 PM	#13
BleedDodgerBlue Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 42	My issue isn't so much the number of fouls, it's the unrealistic player actions associated with them. I see a LOT of "foul ball, Beltre is there, but the ball is 10 rows back," or diving foul attempts at the foul line where balls go out of play. It's like...most baseball players are going to be capable of determining whether or not a ball looks like it's going to be playable. They may get over in the area if it's borderline, but you don't see the catcher tearing for the screen on a ball that gets fouled into the top deck at Dodger Stadium, for example. Eh, just my 2.5 cents (adjusted for inflation)

04-21-2004, 10:23 PM	#14
AZTarHeel All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,680	I don't think it's unreasonable... I've seen games where a batter or two fouls one off 7-10 times... It's part of the drama of the best one-on-one battle in sports --> the pitcher vs. batter duel... The only time I hate it is when I've got a pitcher bordering on tired and don't want to see his pitch count soar any more...

04-21-2004, 10:30 PM	#17
Klaatulou Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hays, KS Posts: 21	Wait....isn't this game based upon results with a "One Pitch" mode? By listing seven consecutive fouls, it becomes more of a pitch by pitch sim. I think we should have the option.