Ummm.... Trades?

rdklein · 04-19-2004, 11:15 PM

I really hope that the first patch fixes the absolute enormous number of trades, signings, and releases that happen during the season. I just simmed a full season and some teams hardly resemble the lineup they had during spring training... and I have AI trading set on low! Yet, to my dismay every monday the transaction log was filled with 20-40 moves for that week.

RidingTimeless · 04-19-2004, 11:33 PM

Something that's bothering me is looking through the almanac and seeing great players who played for 7-8 teams throughout their careers. I also see a lot of teams singing big time free agents to one year contracts.

ps2mike · 04-19-2004, 11:46 PM

yes it's terrible IMO. Too many players moving in each year. it's nowhere near realistic. and the trade AI is wacko. Just seen 5 star pitcher from TOR get traded.

TOR gets:
3 gold star MR
2 1/2 blue star SS
2 blue star C

NYM gets :
5 gold star pitcher

He won Cy Young the year before in the AL and he won it the year he was traded to the NL. Both of these need looked at BAD in a future patch because it does hold the game back some.

Yeah yeah i know teams trade good players for younger prospects or to get rid of high paid players. But TOR had over 20mil in cap space and all they got in return is some prospects that likely won't even start for the team...that is if they aren't gone from the roster the next day.

TheBishop · 04-19-2004, 11:54 PM

Just saw this beauty:

Seattle trades a 21 year old Ken Griffey jr and a pitcher to the White Sox for Sid Bream.

Bream is having a good year (.304, 20, 68 through 100 games), but I have this feeling Seattle mortaged the future a little on this one.....

It does seem the trading AI is a little goofy like that, moving veterans 7-10 times in their careers and trading off highly valuable prospects for what generally isn't much in return.

Go Tribe · 04-20-2004, 12:15 AM

prediction - someone's gonna post a "I just saw Boston deal Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson! Wait that happened in real life!" post to justify goofy trade AI.

drprestwood · 04-20-2004, 12:20 AM

When testing one of our leagues for conversion, the AI released one of my team's best players, a 31 y/o outfielder, because he wouldn't accept a drop to AAA.

Um, maybe he did start slow, but he went .337/51/137 last year. And .306/47/136 the year before that. And .352/50/139 before that. And...you get the picture.

That's a pretty serious problem.

Hotwheelz · 04-20-2004, 12:29 AM

You can turn down the trade frequency.....

GoldenGlove · 04-20-2004, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Go Tribe
prediction - someone's gonna post a "I just saw Boston deal Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson! Wait that happened in real life!" post to justify goofy trade AI.

You are never happy, are you?

rdklein · 04-20-2004, 12:36 AM

I've toyed with the trade frequency... and it works.

It takes the number of transactions from "insanely rediculous" and reduces it to "a whole helluva lot".

RidingTimeless · 04-20-2004, 12:38 AM

I'm a big quick simmer so I will present to you one of the worst trades of all time.

2009

The Players
1B Floyd Fujimoto
Fujimoto was the 3rd overall pick by San Diego at the age of 22. After hitting .326 with 18 homeruns in 90 games at AAA he was called up to the major leagues. In 30 games as a pro Fujimo hit .286 in 28 at bats. His rating was 5.0 (blue) and ranked at #1 on top 100 prospects list. His future looked bright, but the San Diego GM decided to deal him away.

During the offseason before the 2010 season SD traded Fujimoto away to Seattle for SS Russ Adams.

SS Russ Adams
Adams was a 2.0 star journyman who's rarley found a starting spot on a major league club. In fact over the past two seasons he had spent about half his time in the minor leagues.

The 2010 Season
Adams spent the season as a pinch hitter and utility man, but in July was traded away along with a prospect for a 3.0 star second baseman. Fujimoto started 155 games and hit .305 with 15 homers earning rookie of the year honors.

The Careers
SS Russ Adams
He played for 9 teams throughout his 14 year career. He was a full time starter only two seasons out of his career and only managed a lifetime .249 average. His career high for homers in a season was 11 and he only saw more than 500 AB in one season. He was a career spot filler and nothing more.

1B Floyd Fujimoto
Fujimoto played 21 seasons (20 with Seattle). He collected 3376 hits, 563 homers, 1957 rbi's, 1809 walks and a career .305 batting average.

Conclusion
San Diego dealt Fuji away for a pinch hitter?!?!?! Are you kidding me???

I actually saw a trade where the cpu dealt away their first overall pick for a nobody. I would have posted that one, but the 1st overall pick turned out to bust. Oh, and the Griffey Jr one was just as bad.

Tycobbler · 04-20-2004, 01:07 AM

Yeah Monday seems to be garbage day for me too seeing alot of player signings, mostly to MLC's. Trades are few thankfully as i have them set on Low, seeing 8 deals so far and i'm in July.

gdftony · 04-20-2004, 01:30 AM

i simmed a season, the trade frequency was on normal, and there werent that many trades. The trades that did go through seemed to be all even, none of the trades looked ridiculous. I wasnt using a different roster type, it was the default one. Maybe this has something to do with it because it seems like the people who are having problems are using a different roster pack then what the game comes with, just my two cents.

Go Tribe · 04-20-2004, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GoldenGlove
You are never happy, are you?

hahahah i'm happy! i'm just a sarcastic ass too

Mr.Opinion · 04-20-2004, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Go Tribe
hahahah i'm happy! i'm just a sarcastic ass too

I think he's the happy one. He's not running around complaining about everything...he's pointing out holes in everyone elses shanaigans. Go Tribe, I'd like to shake your hand.

vicyu · 04-20-2004, 02:34 AM

Oakland traded Ricardo Rincon to the Yankees for Travis Lee. That sounds OK since Oakland were looking for a 1st baseman.

Here is the fun part:

Two weeks later Oakland released Travis Lee!
???? That, to me, was a little (more than a little maybe) odd!

kingnebwsu · 04-20-2004, 02:59 AM

I just traded Jimmy Haynes (and his $1.8M salary) to PIT for Jose Mesa (not a great MR, but decent for 1-star Haynes). Anyway, PIT goes to release Haynes a few days later! Guess what I do?...I sign Haynes to a minor league contract!!!

I then trade Haynes to NYM for Stanton (an expensive but solid MR) AND $99,999. So I was able to dump Haynes' salary PLUS get 2 much-needed MR's for my Reds and also get paid almost 100k. I sure know how to manhandle the trading AI

BasicGuy · 04-20-2004, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hotwheelz
You can turn down the trade frequency.....

Hey way to go reading the whole first post before replying.

If you would have you would of noticed him saying he allready had the frequency at low.....

Sorry If I seem like a @sshole but I'm sick of people not reading the whole thread before replying to It. But I guess what do you expect from a generation suffering from ADD

dougaiton · 04-20-2004, 04:13 AM

Have you tried very low?

Just out of interest, how have you set up the AI to evaluate talent, and do you have scouts on? If you have 40% assigned to ratings for example, then a sudden talent drop or bad evaluation (and often that can be as much as 2 gold stars) can totally skew the worth of player x. We know the AI cannot evaluate players as well as we can, but perhaps (as I suggested at the time) a moriatorium should have been called on more complex transaction rules until the AI handled normal releases effectively (which it never did either, these issues occurred in OOTP5 without anyone really noticing).

However, I think we got a bit carried away, and the cries for a 40-man roster were very loud. I think in this case on-line leagues (and Total Pro Baseball implied it as well) set the way, and OOTP followed. Basically, the new transaction rules have magnified a problem that was always there, and while I enjoy the features, it was still predictable. If the computer AI can waste its entire cash reserve cutting players who could make perfectly good backups or they had just traded for in version 5, it's no surprise that this happened here.

I'm not moaning about OOTP6 - I really like the new transaction rules, and they (despite all the flaws) add greatly to the new enviroment. The new game has in fact far exceeded my expectations. That said, maybe the 40-man rosters and the waiver wire came one version to early.

jbmagic · 04-20-2004, 04:21 AM

just ran a test 30 team fictional league i set trade to very low and from offseason to end of season there was 12 trade transactions..

next season when i set trade to normal there was 21 trade transactions.

what the MLB average for trade transactions form offseason to end of season?

fantom1979 · 04-20-2004, 05:20 AM

I am curious to see what people have their "AI eval talent" at and what if any roster set they are using. It seems like some of the really bad cases here are from people using "real" rosters. Maybe that is throwing something off.

04-19-2004, 11:46 PM	#3
ps2mike Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 92	yes it's terrible IMO. Too many players moving in each year. it's nowhere near realistic. and the trade AI is wacko. Just seen 5 star pitcher from TOR get traded. TOR gets: 3 gold star MR 2 1/2 blue star SS 2 blue star C NYM gets : 5 gold star pitcher He won Cy Young the year before in the AL and he won it the year he was traded to the NL. Both of these need looked at BAD in a future patch because it does hold the game back some. Yeah yeah i know teams trade good players for younger prospects or to get rid of high paid players. But TOR had over 20mil in cap space and all they got in return is some prospects that likely won't even start for the team...that is if they aren't gone from the roster the next day. Last edited by ps2mike; 04-19-2004 at 11:51 PM.

04-20-2004, 01:30 AM	#12
gdftony Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71	i simmed a season, the trade frequency was on normal, and there werent that many trades. The trades that did go through seemed to be all even, none of the trades looked ridiculous. I wasnt using a different roster type, it was the default one. Maybe this has something to do with it because it seems like the people who are having problems are using a different roster pack then what the game comes with, just my two cents. __________________ Tony Rea Age:21 Pos:Catcher Spot In Lineup:Bench Warmer Season #:Rookie Stats: 295 avg, 2 HR, 9 RBI, 9 Runs scored.

04-20-2004, 04:13 AM	#18
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	Have you tried very low? Just out of interest, how have you set up the AI to evaluate talent, and do you have scouts on? If you have 40% assigned to ratings for example, then a sudden talent drop or bad evaluation (and often that can be as much as 2 gold stars) can totally skew the worth of player x. We know the AI cannot evaluate players as well as we can, but perhaps (as I suggested at the time) a moriatorium should have been called on more complex transaction rules until the AI handled normal releases effectively (which it never did either, these issues occurred in OOTP5 without anyone really noticing). However, I think we got a bit carried away, and the cries for a 40-man roster were very loud. I think in this case on-line leagues (and Total Pro Baseball implied it as well) set the way, and OOTP followed. Basically, the new transaction rules have magnified a problem that was always there, and while I enjoy the features, it was still predictable. If the computer AI can waste its entire cash reserve cutting players who could make perfectly good backups or they had just traded for in version 5, it's no surprise that this happened here. I'm not moaning about OOTP6 - I really like the new transaction rules, and they (despite all the flaws) add greatly to the new enviroment. The new game has in fact far exceeded my expectations. That said, maybe the 40-man rosters and the waiver wire came one version to early. __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

04-20-2004, 05:20 AM	#20
fantom1979 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 3,498	I am curious to see what people have their "AI eval talent" at and what if any roster set they are using. It seems like some of the really bad cases here are from people using "real" rosters. Maybe that is throwing something off. __________________

04-19-2004, 11:15 PM	#1
rdklein All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The other side. Posts: 773	Ummm.... Trades? I really hope that the first patch fixes the absolute enormous number of trades, signings, and releases that happen during the season. I just simmed a full season and some teams hardly resemble the lineup they had during spring training... and I have AI trading set on low! Yet, to my dismay every monday the transaction log was filled with 20-40 moves for that week.

04-19-2004, 11:33 PM	#2
RidingTimeless Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 67	Something that's bothering me is looking through the almanac and seeing great players who played for 7-8 teams throughout their careers. I also see a lot of teams singing big time free agents to one year contracts.

04-19-2004, 11:54 PM	#4
TheBishop Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 165	Just saw this beauty: Seattle trades a 21 year old Ken Griffey jr and a pitcher to the White Sox for Sid Bream. Bream is having a good year (.304, 20, 68 through 100 games), but I have this feeling Seattle mortaged the future a little on this one..... It does seem the trading AI is a little goofy like that, moving veterans 7-10 times in their careers and trading off highly valuable prospects for what generally isn't much in return.

04-20-2004, 12:15 AM	#5
Go Tribe All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,534 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	prediction - someone's gonna post a "I just saw Boston deal Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson! Wait that happened in real life!" post to justify goofy trade AI.

04-20-2004, 12:20 AM	#6
drprestwood All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,501	When testing one of our leagues for conversion, the AI released one of my team's best players, a 31 y/o outfielder, because he wouldn't accept a drop to AAA. Um, maybe he did start slow, but he went .337/51/137 last year. And .306/47/136 the year before that. And .352/50/139 before that. And...you get the picture. That's a pretty serious problem.

04-20-2004, 12:29 AM	#7
Hotwheelz All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 1,620	You can turn down the trade frequency.....

04-20-2004, 12:36 AM	#9
rdklein All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The other side. Posts: 773	I've toyed with the trade frequency... and it works. It takes the number of transactions from "insanely rediculous" and reduces it to "a whole helluva lot".

04-20-2004, 12:38 AM	#10
RidingTimeless Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 67	I'm a big quick simmer so I will present to you one of the worst trades of all time. 2009 The Players 1B Floyd Fujimoto Fujimoto was the 3rd overall pick by San Diego at the age of 22. After hitting .326 with 18 homeruns in 90 games at AAA he was called up to the major leagues. In 30 games as a pro Fujimo hit .286 in 28 at bats. His rating was 5.0 (blue) and ranked at #1 on top 100 prospects list. His future looked bright, but the San Diego GM decided to deal him away. During the offseason before the 2010 season SD traded Fujimoto away to Seattle for SS Russ Adams. SS Russ Adams Adams was a 2.0 star journyman who's rarley found a starting spot on a major league club. In fact over the past two seasons he had spent about half his time in the minor leagues. The 2010 Season Adams spent the season as a pinch hitter and utility man, but in July was traded away along with a prospect for a 3.0 star second baseman. Fujimoto started 155 games and hit .305 with 15 homers earning rookie of the year honors. The Careers SS Russ Adams He played for 9 teams throughout his 14 year career. He was a full time starter only two seasons out of his career and only managed a lifetime .249 average. His career high for homers in a season was 11 and he only saw more than 500 AB in one season. He was a career spot filler and nothing more. 1B Floyd Fujimoto Fujimoto played 21 seasons (20 with Seattle). He collected 3376 hits, 563 homers, 1957 rbi's, 1809 walks and a career .305 batting average. Conclusion San Diego dealt Fuji away for a pinch hitter?!?!?! Are you kidding me??? I actually saw a trade where the cpu dealt away their first overall pick for a nobody. I would have posted that one, but the 1st overall pick turned out to bust. Oh, and the Griffey Jr one was just as bad.

04-20-2004, 01:07 AM	#11
Tycobbler Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 20 minutes from Comerica Park Posts: 2,004	Yeah Monday seems to be garbage day for me too seeing alot of player signings, mostly to MLC's. Trades are few thankfully as i have them set on Low, seeing 8 deals so far and i'm in July.

04-20-2004, 02:34 AM	#15
vicyu Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 9	Oakland traded Ricardo Rincon to the Yankees for Travis Lee. That sounds OK since Oakland were looking for a 1st baseman. Here is the fun part: Two weeks later Oakland released Travis Lee! ???? That, to me, was a little (more than a little maybe) odd!

04-20-2004, 02:59 AM	#16
kingnebwsu Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 127	I just traded Jimmy Haynes (and his $1.8M salary) to PIT for Jose Mesa (not a great MR, but decent for 1-star Haynes). Anyway, PIT goes to release Haynes a few days later! Guess what I do?...I sign Haynes to a minor league contract!!! I then trade Haynes to NYM for Stanton (an expensive but solid MR) AND $99,999. So I was able to dump Haynes' salary PLUS get 2 much-needed MR's for my Reds and also get paid almost 100k. I sure know how to manhandle the trading AI

04-20-2004, 04:21 AM	#19
jbmagic Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,417	just ran a test 30 team fictional league i set trade to very low and from offseason to end of season there was 12 trade transactions.. next season when i set trade to normal there was 21 trade transactions. what the MLB average for trade transactions form offseason to end of season?