arguing

[purduerowdy]

henry,

just for the sake of arguement... so you say its difficult to analyze this statistically and whatnot. however, clutch is the same deal and it is incorporated.

[crackpott]

Originally posted by Henry
It's still the best idea out there. I don't like the idea of coding some kind of win-loss effect based on an arguement with the umpire or coding some kind of variance on his next call.

No one knows if arguements have any effects - they are simply the need to "vent" in a real world situation, yet part of the baseball experience.

JP has come up with an idea that gives more reason to the event without effecting the next decision of the umpire or the game results (directly)... I like it.

Henry

I agree. I'm just annoyed that I've said the idea over and over and no one has chimed in any support. Maybe I'll run all my ideas through him now.

[EnglandsOnlyBosoxFan]

The problem is that arguing a call rarely does anything in real life. Maybe a small boost to your team / saving a player from ejection. But really, it's just a way to vent and defend your guys.

[LAH]

Originally posted by crackpott
I say the idea over and over and no one cares.

Top 5 reasons no one listens to you:

5. Who the hell are you anyways?

4. You must have the worst signature in the history of internet forums

3. You're obviously a crackpot.

2. You have the most disturbing avatar I have ever seen.

1. You're Canadian.

Nuff said.

[LAH]

Originally posted by purduerowdy
henry,

just for the sake of arguement... so you say its difficult to analyze this statistically and whatnot. however, clutch is the same deal and it is incorporated.

I think that would depend on how the game views the clutch rating.

Is it a reflecting of a hitters BA in close/late situations?

Runners in scoring position?

I don't know.

[Henry]

Originally posted by purduerowdy
henry,

just for the sake of arguement... so you say its difficult to analyze this statistically and whatnot. however, clutch is the same deal and it is incorporated.

Uh-oh... the "clutch" issue again

Actually, I support "clutch" in fictional leagues but not historical ones. I agree it likely does not exist - but it provides sort of a "character" element in a fictional league where the small change it might make is actually a little extra drama that helps define "roboton" players.

Henry

Originally posted by purduerowdy
yeah, i see this as a possible OOTP15 addition or something. its a ways off. it will take one of the insane folks in this forum to track it statistically for like 5 yrs before you can actually do it.

My main point is just that it does effect the game, and i'm not sure why some on this board seem to think it doesnt.

even so, somewhere before ootp15 it might be nice to have an option to have it influence the game or not... with the full knowledge that the influence is based on personal observation as opposed to actual stats. maybe even a user-set factor for how often it effects a player. not sure how hard this would be to incorporate.

You're right, it probably does effect the game. However, what I seem to be missing in your argument, is that it can also demoralize a team as much as pump them up.

In 1990 when the Reds and Cardinals played, I happened to be at the game and Pinella was tossed. Up until that point the Reds were playing like the World Champs they would eventually become. Afterwards, they looked like they were lost and ended up getting creamed.

Did Pinella getting tossed cause that? Perhaps. It's just as plausibile to think that as it is to think that a team gets fired up after their coach is tossed.

_IF_ this was ever to be implemented, and I hope it's not, then there would have to be a positive effect, a neutral effect and a negative effect to even it all out. Othwerwise, arguing every call to give your team an extra boost would be pretty unrealistic.

Especially now that we're getting H2H play and games may be played out live in online leagues. Talk about lame if a team gets a huge pick me up because the other GM argues a call and is tossed.

Jase

[LAH]

Originally posted by avwjase
You're right, it probably does effect the game. However, what I seem to be missing in your argument, is that it can also demoralize a team as much as pump them up.

In 1990 when the Reds and Cardinals played, I happened to be at the game and Pinella was tossed. Up until that point the Reds were playing like the World Champs they would eventually become. Afterwards, they looked like they were lost and ended up getting creamed.

Did Pinella getting tossed cause that? Perhaps. It's just as plausibile to think that as it is to think that a team gets fired up after their coach is tossed.

_IF_ this was ever to be implemented, and I hope it's not, then there would have to be a positive effect, a neutral effect and a negative effect to even it all out. Othwerwise, arguing every call to give your team an extra boost would be pretty unrealistic.

Especially now that we're getting H2H play and games may be played out live in online leagues. Talk about lame if a team gets a huge pick me up because the other GM argues a call and is tossed.

Jase

I wonder when was the last time a General Manager was tossed from a game?

[purduerowdy]

Originally posted by avwjase
You're right, it probably does effect the game. However, what I seem to be missing in your argument, is that it can also demoralize a team as much as pump them up.

In 1990 when the Reds and Cardinals played, I happened to be at the game and Pinella was tossed. Up until that point the Reds were playing like the World Champs they would eventually become. Afterwards, they looked like they were lost and ended up getting creamed.

Did Pinella getting tossed cause that? Perhaps. It's just as plausibile to think that as it is to think that a team gets fired up after their coach is tossed.

_IF_ this was ever to be implemented, and I hope it's not, then there would have to be a positive effect, a neutral effect and a negative effect to even it all out. Othwerwise, arguing every call to give your team an extra boost would be pretty unrealistic.

Especially now that we're getting H2H play and games may be played out live in online leagues. Talk about lame if a team gets a huge pick me up because the other GM argues a call and is tossed.

Jase

true, but consider who it is. i mean if its a guy who flies off the hook every other game, it kind of loses its effect on the team.. its like, 'there goes lou again'.

i think its just too difficult to do. its really hard to mimic any spur of the moment emotion in a game.