Teaching Pitchers New Role?

[Ragnar]

If all of the pitchers are gonna be labeled just "Pitcher" how will the pay scale work? As it is now you pay much less for a MR.

And if it's up to you to label them then what's stopping anyone from making everyone a MR just to keep the pay down? Or is every pitcher gonna ask for a ton of money? Something doesn't sound right here.

[dougaiton]

Originally posted by Ragnar
If all of the pitchers are gonna be labeled just "Pitcher" how will the pay scale work? As it is now you pay much less for a MR.

And if it's up to you to label them then what's stopping anyone from making everyone a MR just to keep the pay down? Or is every pitcher gonna ask for a ton of money? Something doesn't sound right here.

The new system eradicates these concerns. A guy who can start or relieve will get paid relative to what role the team allocates at the minute.

The new system eradicates that because players are pitchers, not starters or relievers. Therefore you would pay dependent on what you can do, not what role for any particular team you are filling.

If you sign Jeff Suppan in the offseason with the new system, it doesn't matter if you use him in the bullpen or as a starter, he will get paid the same relative to his skills. That seems perfectly sensible IMO.

[KurtBevacqua]

The best situation is when you get a reliever with a starter rating. Then you can take away from stamina and allocate those points all over the place. But if you are trying to move a reliever with no starter rating to become a starter, it can be pretty painful. I had a guy for over two years that I tried this with by just chaning his position in the minors, and he never developed starter stamina. In the end I had to chop a couple points into the stamina category in spring training and finally the guy got an E rating, but I lost velocity and some accuracy to the point I he had to be demoted back to A ball. If I didn't already have so many quality relievers in the minors I would have left him that way. It's easy to go from starter to reliever, but very difficult for a pure reliever to be a starter. It can be done, but it takes time and sacrifice in the ratings.

[ChuckB]

Originally posted by thomamon
I don't think I can come up with any of those... Oh wait, I did. Lowe on the Red Sox is the only one I can think of.

TM

BY Kim, another Red Sox, was another closer-turned-starter.

And Danny Graves started for the Reds last season, too.

[thomamon]

So I still don't think my question has ever been fully answered. If you move a starter into a reliever role and assign him as MR or CL in the minors, will he get stanima as a Reliever?

TM

[JML]

Originally posted by thomamon
So I still don't think my question has ever been fully answered. If you move a starter into a reliever role and assign him as MR or CL in the minors, will he get stanima as a Reliever?

TM

no.

[saves the day82]

gagne also came up as a starter and is now the best closer in the league

[messenjah]

Originally posted by saves the day82
gagne also came up as a starter and is now the best closer in the league

Beat me to it, was just about to mention that.

[enuttage]

Originally posted by enuttage
Nah, I meant either one.

It's still pretty rare to see a starter go to a closer's role, even if it does happen more often than it used to. And when it does happen, it's usually very early in a pitcher's career (unlike Smoltz and Eck - and much like Rivera, Wickman, Gagne).

-E

Er...been mentioned.

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally posted by thomamon
So I still don't think my question has ever been fully answered. If you move a starter into a reliever role and assign him as MR or CL in the minors, will he get stanima as a Reliever?

TM

I'm not sure you really need it. Maybe someone can clarify, but my impression is starters without a relief stamina automatically have excellent stamina as a reliever. I know I have witnessed pure starters in relief routinely through 60-70 pitches before getting tired, which leads me to believe they have enhanced stamina in that role.

I also recall someone once posted a strategy of buiding relievers by converting starters where in spring training you would devote all the stamina points to other things to really jack up the guy's abilities. Some folks feel this is cheating, but it kind of makes sense in the real world in that a reliever doesn't have to pace themselves and can throw harder and perhaps have better stuff than as a starter. Eckersley and Smoltz are proof as their numbers as relievers are ridiculously better than as starters. So in a way the game is allowing you to somewhat realistically convert a starter to reliever by allwong you the option of moving all those stamina points across the board. In essence you are trading stamina for enhanced performance.

[enuttage]

Originally posted by KurtBevacqua
Some folks feel this is cheating, but it kind of makes sense in the real world in that a reliever doesn't have to pace themselves and can throw harder and perhaps have better stuff than as a starter. Eckersley and Smoltz are proof as their numbers as relievers are ridiculously better than as starters.

Which also begs an interesting question about the quality of a closing pitcher, doesn't it?

They're the best of what's around, but not the best.

You can convert declining starters, or not-quite-good-enough-for-the-rotation guys to the closer, and they thrive.

This also supports Billy Beane's theory that a good closer is just about being in the right place at the right time. My addendum is that a truly great closer is quite an asset. Anything less than great makes a stopper just an interchangeable part.

Makes me have much greater respect for Derek Lowe though...

-E