OOTP6 - speed up release ? - OPEN for comments

[GeoWar]

OOTP 6 April Update
OK guys, time for a little update.

Unfortunately, I was moving to a different house, and this move (couldn't be delayed, btw) cost me about 1 week of development time, and I was without internet as well. Anyway, beta testing is going at full steam, and I still believe we will be able to release the game before April 15th if nothing unforseen happens. However, we will only release the game when we think it is stable and all new features are working as advertised!

In the meantime here are some new features for you, that are included in OOTP 6 and haven't been mentioned yet:
- Include cash in trades (the AI uses this as well)
- Ability to import/export spring traing plans via FTP
- Schedule CSV import/export
- One button to generate auto depth charts based on the starters in the lineups

We'll have more screenshots within the next couple of days

Now I need get back to coding!!

Cheers,
Markus



********** that was the man's post !! *************

[Johnny Slick]

Sorry to keep bringing this up, but I can't help but parallel this situation to TP Basketball and Football. .400 Studios, in all their wisdom, decided to give set release dates for both games... which they missed. It's a little different in those situations because they were coding a game for the first time and really didn't know how long is was going to take from being 85% of the way done to 100%.

As it turned out, it was much longer than they figured, and even with pushing back the release dates with both titles, stuff came out with a LOT of bugs involved. Not just "missing player" crap or "catchers are hitting too many doubles" crap... I mean, in the original release of TPF, you could not complete a season with some of the league sizes without the game crashing. Even now, close to half a year since it was "supposed" to come out, my copy of TPB pretty much requires you to save it after every round of free agency because it's so unstable.

This isn't really meant to rip on .400; those guys are trying as hard as they can, and I'm sure that a couple iterations from now both titles will be as good as anything we've seen in text-based sims in those sports. What it is, is a way of demonstrating that for small companies like ootp things you expect from EA like release dates and instantaneous head-to-head play can be problematic.

And I'll say it again: in addition to H2H, Markus put together an entirely new engine. I've been thinking for several months that because of everything that was to be added to this version *and* the time taken on ITP, an Opening Day release would be problematic. As far as I am concerned, if it comes out before June and I can play through a season without the whole shebang crashing on me, I will be happy.

[dougaiton]

I understand I'm 27 pages too late,and those who know me will know I'm far from complaining with this post.

Anyway, here goes. I voted YES, and I won't use H2H anyway probably, and I know refunds will be given now on pre-orders. Here's my question, though: will Markus refund users in six months time if H2H isn't included?

What assurances do H2H players have that if they buy the game now, they will get H2H at some time? Or should it officially be removed from the list of features that the initial post shows? Otherwise, like full spring training, financial co-efficient etc. they could pay for a feature they never actually get.

I would like it to be released ASAP, but there must be some guarantee for those who are buying because H2H is a KEY feature that they will be able to return the product if H2H never appears. If not, then it should be removed from the list of features quickly.

[Henry]

I'm more than a little confused.

Per Markus latest statement, H2H is being worked on (50% complete) and if not included in the initial release, would be included in the first major patch.

No where in that statement is there even a "hint" that H2H is in trouble or that it wouldn't be added. Don't you think Markus would be honest and state he's having trouble with the feature if that was the case?

The "offer" was simply meant to release the game earlier for those that weren't waiting for the H2H option - and everyone jumps on the bandwagon assuming H2H is in trouble.

The financial co-efficient is not even in the same league of comparison here... Markus was VERY clear during development that the feature was giving him trouble - and it was clear at release time that the feature was not going to be included.

That is not what is happening here... Markus simply needs more time to complete H2H.

That's the way I see this issue,

Henry

[DodgerBaseball]

i could wait 2 weeks for this feature.

DB

[EJ]

Originally posted by Trev929
since the release of this game is already well past opening day, what was the point of posting a thread 3 days ago about speeding up the release ????

me thinks that it was a distraction......

pretty low class to pre sell the game and then not release it.

Trev, I would assume that since you're posting, you've either pre-ordered or plan on buying. But why would you be giving your hard-earned cash to people that you think are "low class"? Evidently you're already displeased, and the game hasn't even been released. Why not just go buy a different game, a more perfect one, a higher-class one.

[dougaiton]

Originally posted by Henry
No where in that statement is there even a "hint" that H2H is in trouble or that it wouldn't be added. Don't you think Markus would be honest and state he's having trouble with the feature if that was the case?

Yeah, I deleted my reference to the co-efficient. My problem with this offer (and I voted YES) is that we have no idea how H2H will work in the game. Say it gets to testing, and it just doesn't work, then there is no way Markus could or should include it. Yet, several thousand copies of the game will be sold with that promise. If a feature isn't yet added or close to testing (and maybe I misread Markus' words here), then I don't see how its as yet a feature that OOTP6 can be sold on.

I have full faith that H2H will make it in. I just don't believe it should be advertised as a feature if at the point of release it's only a promised addition, not necessarily an actual addition. If that is the case, then release posts referring to it should be edited.

[Henry]

dougaiton,

I understand your concern, but carrying your logic to the next level would suggest a "feature" list should never be posted. Any game needs to tell people what they plan on adding - yet no developer can know 100% at the time of that announcement that unexpected problem will or will not surface.

In the case of the big companys, with a staff of programmers, they have the option to throw people at it until it either works or is some skeleton of what was promised. Markus doesn't have that option. If a feature causes him problems, he has to "defer" it until he has time to address it. CF fell into this definition.

I honestly believe that everyone should read a "feature list" from any company with a grain of salt. If the people behind the company have a good track record (which I believe OOTP does) then you know everything will be done to try and include everything on that list in the way it was described - but NOT at the risk of destabilizing the game or disappointing its customers by adding a half-baked option that promised much more.

I believe that if H2H was currently in trouble, Markus would alert the community to that fact. I also think that Markus has the community and it's satisfaction at heart - and does everything he can to earn their trust - including a reduced price, free patches, and an offer to release V6 earlier if that's what the "community" wants.

Henry

[dougaiton]

Originally posted by Henry

I believe that if H2H was currently in trouble, Markus would alert the community to that fact. I also think that Markus has the community and it's satisfaction at heart - and does everything he can to earn their trust - including a reduced price, free patches, and an offer to release V6 earlier if that's what the "community" wants.

Yeah, I suppose that's entirely correct. Markus wouldn't at all be trying to rip us off. I think I'll just shut up until the game's released, at which point I can talk about what happened, and not what has yet to!

Thanks for the quick response.

[Johnny Slick]

doug, you JUST missed the post where I said that the cure for fans who would not buy the game if it didn't have H2H and lack confidence that it will be there eventually is to get a refund as soon as it is announced that the initial release will not contain the feature you crave. You'll end up spending $9 more once H2H does come out, but that's what being sure is going to cost you.

Nobody is trying to scam anybody, even if H2H doesn't make it into this version. If anything, Markus is being very un-scamulous by saying "look, guys, if I release this early, it might not have a big feature that some of you have been counting on." While ootp certainly wants to keep your business, I'm sure that the LAST thing they want you to do is whine and complain that you didn't end up with the game you thought you'd pre-ordered.

(note: I'm using the plural, 5th conjugation "you" here. dougation and Mike D, I know that you specifically would buy the game without H2H)

[TopShelf]

My 2 cents is to not realese it till the H2H is ready. due to we can all wait another week or two, and have solid ground

[TopShelf]

LOL I bet this was a April fools joke, due to this is something pretty big to mess with with our imput lol

we all know nothing, and to make a poll etc etc would be pretty much pulling alot of wait LOL

I hope it is a April Fools joke, lol

[dougaiton]

Originally posted by Johnny Slick
doug, you JUST missed the post where I said that the cure for fans who would not buy the game if it didn't have H2H and lack confidence that it will be there eventually is to get a refund as soon as it is announced that the initial release will not contain the feature you crave. You'll end up spending $9 more once H2H does come out, but that's what being sure is going to cost you.

Nobody is trying to scam anybody, even if H2H doesn't make it into this version. If anything, Markus is being very un-scamulous by saying "look, guys, if I release this early, it might not have a big feature that some of you have been counting on." While ootp certainly wants to keep your business, I'm sure that the LAST thing they want you to do is whine and complain that you didn't end up with the game you thought you'd pre-ordered.

(note: I'm using the plural, 5th conjugation "you" here. dougation and Mike D, I know that you specifically would buy the game without H2H)

5th conjugation??? That's higher than I can count!

Aye, I agree. I was just panicking. The one thing I do think is that people are presumably still pre-ordering with the assumption that H2H is in it, as the first post in the pre-order links to the newsletter that mentions the feature. I hope that the release email will make sure it mentions that it won't make it in for a couple of weeks, or else we'll get exactly the same fiasco that re-appeared every now and again where people would say 'where's full minors' or 'where's full spring training', referring to admittedly dated posts or emails that hadn't been updated. That's an irritant to OOTPDevelopments, but certainly not an indictment on their character.

I did miss your post, but in a blind panic, not for any good reason. For that, I apologise.

[JML]

I say we do a "secret" early release. Release it w/o H2H, but don't tell the people who refuse to play the game until H2H is in there. Barring that, the aforementioned people could just pretend that the game hasn't been released yet.

In all seriousness, I don't see what the big to-do is. Patches are free, so waiting to release the game and patching H2H in later are the same end result for those who must have H2H. But those of us who would like to play the game ASAP have to wait. I suppose this has more to do with people who don't trust the company to get H2H into the game at a later time.

[chrisj]

I actually like what dougaiton had to say.

Why not hold off on announcing features until they are complete? I mean, I assume Markus doesn't code everything in the final two weeks before release I would assume he has a good part done before then... so he can easily announce a feature list a few weeks before the game is complete based on what is already done. Anything that's added in the final couple weeks can be considered a "surprise".

(I was surprised to find out he didn't already do that actually )

[JimboJones]

I just got back from a week-long vacation, hoping to find out the game had been released. I see one update from Markus that says it will be released by April 15, and another one asking if he should release it "earlier" without H2H play. Does that mean without H2H it would be earlier than 4/15, and with H2H it would be by 4/15? Or does it mean without H2H it would be by 4/15, and with H2H it would be later than 4/15?

Sorry, if this has already been answered, but I just don't have time to search through hundreds of posts looking for further updates from Markus. That's why I am asking for a thread that only Markus, or other OOTP emplyees, can post to. Even if there is no concrete release date, at least we can go directly there to get the latest info directly from the developers. Then we don't need to waste time wading through hundreds of posts speculating on release dates, complaining about missing features, whining about it not being released yet, whining about people whining about it not being released yet, etc.

[Henry]

Per the rules we've been following this past week and a half, I'm merging your post with the main thread above.

The information you've read is the latest update on the game's release. No specific dates have been mentioned.

Henry

[Steve Kuffrey]

Markus can make a post and then close and sticky the thread if that is what he chooses to do. He has not chosen to do that because of the input that he gets because he doesn't close and sticky them. In "most" of the threads his only comments are the one's at the beginning.

You can do a search by member and it will give you all that he has said.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Originally posted by JimboJones
I just got back from a week-long vacation, hoping to find out the game had been released. I see one update from Markus that says it will be released by April 15, and another one asking if he should release it "earlier" without H2H play. Does that mean without H2H it would be earlier than 4/15, and with H2H it would be by 4/15? Or does it mean without H2H it would be by 4/15, and with H2H it would be later than 4/15?

Sorry, if this has already been answered, but I just don't have time to search through hundreds of posts looking for further updates from Markus. That's why I am asking for a thread that only Markus, or other OOTP emplyees, can post to. Even if there is no concrete release date, at least we can go directly there to get the latest info directly from the developers. Then we don't need to waste time wading through hundreds of posts speculating on release dates, complaining about missing features, whining about it not being released yet, whining about people whining about it not being released yet, etc.

[zyk]

my srping break starts monday.... hopley he releases a version w/o h2h sometime early this week...

if i got to wait till after my springbreak when i have no time i'll be pretty upset..

[Jordan]

Originally posted by Purple Cowboy
I'm terribly disappointed that in your petty world longevity on a message board equates into greater relavance of opinion.

tell that to statfreak

EDIT: I just wonder sometimes why others are brushed aside when they've put in work to this board, like statfreak, among others.