OOTP4 vs DMB8

PaulH · 03-09-2002, 06:06 PM

I find it interesting that some people rave about the statistical accurracy of Diamond Mind Baseball. From my twelve years of personal experience, I don't find it that accurate. I decided to give DMB one more whirl, so I bought the 2001 player disk for $29.95, yes the same amount I paid for OOTP4. For those not familar with DMB, you also need to purchase the game disk for $49.95 to use the roster disk. Fortunately that is a one time purchase and you need only purchase the roster disks in the future, unless of course a newer version comes out. Then current owners can purchase it at a reduced rate.

Here are some of my results:
Barry Bonds 87 Homeruns, the top ten leaders in Homeruns all have 50 or more.
Todd Hollandsworth hit .402. The top ten hit .350 or higher.
Sammy Sosa had 187 RBI's, the top ten had 150 or more.
Barry Bonds also had a .938 slugging pct and .554
on base percentage.

If these numbers where generated by OOTP, a DMB zealot would complain about how unrealistic the results are. With OOTP I'm fairly certain Barry Bonds will be a good powerhitter, but I don't believe he would hit an absurd total like 87.

To get fairly reasonable stats I've come to realize you need to use realife lineups and transactions, which means you have absolutely no input in the game until a game is underway.
In fact I became so bored with my last replay, I had the computer simulate all of the second half of the season.

Some other shortcomings when playing DMB solo:

The computer manager can't manage a roster unless you use realife transactions.

You need to manually input a postseason. Not a big deal, but still a nuisance. I can't believe that hasn't been resolved after all these years.

Of course there is no career play. I think by know there would at least be a way to track a players stats from year to year.

Occasionaly I even run into to some questionable in game strategy with DMB. Something I'm seeing less and less of with OOTP. OOTP has closed the gap considerably since version 1.

And finally there is the empty feeling when a season ended with DMB Unless you want to replay the same season, you need to wait until the following December to get a new roster disk. With OOTP it is like reading a great book that never ends. You finish one chapter today and you know there will always be another to read tommorrow. And the best part is you don't know how the new chapter will end.

As far as I'm concerned DMB was the best baseball sim out there unti OOTP came along, and is the only program I've kept on my PC since day 1. But in the future I don't think I will be playing anything but OOTP, hopefully versions 5,6,7 etc etc. Great job Markus and Steve!

Steve Kuffrey · 03-09-2002, 06:10 PM

Paul,

Thanks for your kinda and encouraging words....WE look forward to providing you and all with versions 5, 6, 7, etc....

Spielman · 03-09-2002, 06:49 PM

And I look forward to purchasing versions 5, 6, 7, etc.

-Spielman

FastLane · 03-09-2002, 06:58 PM

Word!

I joined the OOTP bandwagon with last years release of OOTP3. I am a long-time veteran of board classics like Pursue The Pennant(still one of my all-time favs), Dynasty League Baseball, and Strat-O-Matic as well as Online/PC games like Dynasty, PureSimbaseball, and High Heat Baseball. But all of them have been blown out of the water by OOTP4. I just purchased OOTP4 last week and have been enjoying it more and more as I continue playing.

Thanks, Markus...and everyone else who made OOTP4 possible. You've outdone yourselves!!!

I Am The Game · 03-09-2002, 11:08 PM

[quote]Originally posted by PaulH:
I find it interesting that some people rave about the statistical accurracy of Diamond Mind Baseball. From my twelve years of personal experience, I don't find it that accurate. I decided to give DMB one more whirl, so I bought the 2001 player disk for $29.95, yes the same amount I paid for OOTP4. For those not familar with DMB, you also need to purchase the game disk for $49.95 to use the roster disk. Fortunately that is a one time purchase and you need only purchase the roster disks in the future, unless of course a newer version comes out. Then current owners can purchase it at a reduced rate.

Here are some of my results:
Barry Bonds 87 Homeruns, the top ten leaders in Homeruns all have 50 or more.
Todd Hollandsworth hit .402. The top ten hit .350 or higher.
Sammy Sosa had 187 RBI's, the top ten had 150 or more.
Barry Bonds also had a .938 slugging pct and .554
on base percentage.

If these numbers where generated by OOTP, a DMB zealot would complain about how unrealistic the results are. With OOTP I'm fairly certain Barry Bonds will be a good powerhitter, but I don't believe he would hit an absurd total like 87.

To get fairly reasonable stats I've come to realize you need to use realife lineups and transactions, which means you have absolutely no input in the game until a game is underway.
In fact I became so bored with my last replay, I had the computer simulate all of the second half of the season.<hr></blockquote>
Before I start I do prefer OOTP over DMB, a lot in fact. I used to play DMB quite a bit but as you mentioned, it was an empty feeling. However, if you put Bonds 2001 stats into OOTP, you WILL get him hitting 85 HRs and having a sick OPS. The reason Hollandsworth hit that is one of those DMB flaws, I mean he was sick Vs. RH <.408-.448-.735>, but only had 98ABs. Give him 500ABs Vs. RH in DMB and he will have those numbers, just multiplied by 5. Guys like Damon Minor hit 75 HRs in the 2000 disk. But it's those flaws I don't like. Guys who had 25 Abs should not be winning triple crowns, or two guys who combined had 30IP should not be more a more dominating combo than Pedro-RJ. And yes, once you experiance the OOTP Career feeling, DMB is empty, and costs $50 more to play. DMB is going to find out next year, they better drastically lower their price or they're screwed. Why would you pay $50 more for a game with less overall quality?

masoo · 03-10-2002, 06:57 AM

My first post.

I play 'em all. There's no comparison, they all do different things and offer different pleasures for the game player. I don't see the need to make pronouncements about how Game X is superior to all others (and, honestly, and I am very much enjoying OOTP, but if I only get one game, it's going to be Championship Manager). It makes sense to compare OOTP to, say, Baseball Mogul. But comparing it to Diamond Mind is silly, they do different things.

InfamousMP · 03-10-2002, 08:39 AM

Almost everyone that reads these boards is a big OOTP fan, you really don't have much reason to be here otherwise. I think we can all (almost all) agree that OOTP is the best game going today. All around it is just a better game then anything we have seen so far.

Still, that does not mean that the other games do not have areas that are just superior to OOTP. I must say that OOTP4 is a fantastic game and my hat goes off to those who worked on it. But as with everything in life, there is more that can be done and I am sure we on this board have ideas for what was missing, etc...

Not really sure what the point was and now I am just rambling, but you get the idea. And if you don't, it happens.

Yossarian · 03-10-2002, 08:52 AM

[quote]Originally posted by I Am The Game:
The reason Hollandsworth hit that is one of those DMB flaws, I mean he was sick Vs. RH <.408-.448-.735>, but only had 98ABs. Give him 500ABs Vs. RH in DMB and he will have those numbers, just multiplied by 5. Guys like Damon Minor hit 75 HRs in the 2000 disk. But it's those flaws I don't like. Guys who had 25 Abs should not be winning triple crowns, or two guys who combined had 30IP should not be more a more dominating combo than Pedro-RJ.<hr></blockquote>

Strat is the same way. Realistic usage = realistic results. You aren't really meant to be using 25 AB guys every day.

Scott Vibert · 03-10-2002, 11:12 AM

Keep in mind the settings for OOTP are adjustable so that you can edit and adjust the number of homers or hits in the league to get more accurate results.

IatricSB's ERA calculator helps a great deal with this process.

I Am The Game · 03-10-2002, 05:19 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Yossarian:


Strat is the same way. Realistic usage = realistic results. You aren't really meant to be using 25 AB guys every day.<hr></blockquote>
It's the every day guys like Hollandsworth that just got injured. I mean what, your not going to use the real life every day Left Fielder for the Colorado Rockies - especially hitting .400 Vs. RH - because he got injured?

unrealdemand · 03-11-2002, 04:31 AM

of course the DMB engine will not trade Willie
Mays for Archer as just happened in my
1961 season...halfway through the season Mays
is hitting .325 with 36 homers and 90 rbs and
the computer GM trades him to KC for Archer who
is 5-3 with 3.86 era...nothing's perfect I guess...or in the same season Post for Sturdivant...Post had 27 homers/68 rbis and is
traded to the senators for sturdivant, a .500
pitcher who finishes 7-11 with a 4.66

there are "bad/unusual" results in both games...when you get tired of spitting in the
wind...just enjoy them for what they are...

Anonyomous Ghost · 03-11-2002, 05:29 PM

[quote]Originally posted by unrealdemand:
there are "bad/unusual" results in both games...when you get tired of spitting in the
wind...just enjoy them for what they are...<hr></blockquote>

Agreed. I've played Mogul and DMB for years, and enjoyed them very much. I downloaded OOTP4 within a few days of it being released and haven't stopped playing it since. No game comes close in terms of capturing all of the elements of the baseball world.

That's not to say that OOTPs perfect, no game is. But its certainly going to get a lot more playing time over the next couple of months than DMB or HH2003.

03-09-2002, 06:06 PM	#1
PaulH Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: St . Paul, Mn. Posts: 21	OOTP4 vs DMB8 I find it interesting that some people rave about the statistical accurracy of Diamond Mind Baseball. From my twelve years of personal experience, I don't find it that accurate. I decided to give DMB one more whirl, so I bought the 2001 player disk for $29.95, yes the same amount I paid for OOTP4. For those not familar with DMB, you also need to purchase the game disk for $49.95 to use the roster disk. Fortunately that is a one time purchase and you need only purchase the roster disks in the future, unless of course a newer version comes out. Then current owners can purchase it at a reduced rate. Here are some of my results: Barry Bonds 87 Homeruns, the top ten leaders in Homeruns all have 50 or more. Todd Hollandsworth hit .402. The top ten hit .350 or higher. Sammy Sosa had 187 RBI's, the top ten had 150 or more. Barry Bonds also had a .938 slugging pct and .554 on base percentage. If these numbers where generated by OOTP, a DMB zealot would complain about how unrealistic the results are. With OOTP I'm fairly certain Barry Bonds will be a good powerhitter, but I don't believe he would hit an absurd total like 87. To get fairly reasonable stats I've come to realize you need to use realife lineups and transactions, which means you have absolutely no input in the game until a game is underway. In fact I became so bored with my last replay, I had the computer simulate all of the second half of the season. Some other shortcomings when playing DMB solo: The computer manager can't manage a roster unless you use realife transactions. You need to manually input a postseason. Not a big deal, but still a nuisance. I can't believe that hasn't been resolved after all these years. Of course there is no career play. I think by know there would at least be a way to track a players stats from year to year. Occasionaly I even run into to some questionable in game strategy with DMB. Something I'm seeing less and less of with OOTP. OOTP has closed the gap considerably since version 1. And finally there is the empty feeling when a season ended with DMB Unless you want to replay the same season, you need to wait until the following December to get a new roster disk. With OOTP it is like reading a great book that never ends. You finish one chapter today and you know there will always be another to read tommorrow. And the best part is you don't know how the new chapter will end. As far as I'm concerned DMB was the best baseball sim out there unti OOTP came along, and is the only program I've kept on my PC since day 1. But in the future I don't think I will be playing anything but OOTP, hopefully versions 5,6,7 etc etc. Great job Markus and Steve!

03-09-2002, 06:10 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	Paul, Thanks for your kinda and encouraging words....WE look forward to providing you and all with versions 5, 6, 7, etc.... __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-09-2002, 06:49 PM	#3
Spielman All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,668	And I look forward to purchasing versions 5, 6, 7, etc. -Spielman __________________ Spielman was at one time the smartest person on these boards. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...martest+Person I don't believe in AnotherAlias.

03-09-2002, 06:58 PM	#4
FastLane Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 481	Word! I joined the OOTP bandwagon with last years release of OOTP3. I am a long-time veteran of board classics like Pursue The Pennant(still one of my all-time favs), Dynasty League Baseball, and Strat-O-Matic as well as Online/PC games like Dynasty, PureSimbaseball, and High Heat Baseball. But all of them have been blown out of the water by OOTP4. I just purchased OOTP4 last week and have been enjoying it more and more as I continue playing. Thanks, Markus...and everyone else who made OOTP4 possible. You've outdone yourselves!!! __________________ You know it's summertime at Candlestick when the fog rolls in, the wind kicks up, and you see the center fielder slicing open a caribou to survive the ninth inning. ~Bob Sarlette Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax. ~Mike Royko

03-09-2002, 11:08 PM	#5
I Am The Game All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 691	[quote]Originally posted by PaulH: <strong>I find it interesting that some people rave about the statistical accurracy of Diamond Mind Baseball. From my twelve years of personal experience, I don't find it that accurate. I decided to give DMB one more whirl, so I bought the 2001 player disk for $29.95, yes the same amount I paid for OOTP4. For those not familar with DMB, you also need to purchase the game disk for $49.95 to use the roster disk. Fortunately that is a one time purchase and you need only purchase the roster disks in the future, unless of course a newer version comes out. Then current owners can purchase it at a reduced rate. Here are some of my results: Barry Bonds 87 Homeruns, the top ten leaders in Homeruns all have 50 or more. Todd Hollandsworth hit .402. The top ten hit .350 or higher. Sammy Sosa had 187 RBI's, the top ten had 150 or more. Barry Bonds also had a .938 slugging pct and .554 on base percentage. If these numbers where generated by OOTP, a DMB zealot would complain about how unrealistic the results are. With OOTP I'm fairly certain Barry Bonds will be a good powerhitter, but I don't believe he would hit an absurd total like 87. To get fairly reasonable stats I've come to realize you need to use realife lineups and transactions, which means you have absolutely no input in the game until a game is underway. In fact I became so bored with my last replay, I had the computer simulate all of the second half of the season.</strong><hr></blockquote> Before I start I do prefer OOTP over DMB, a lot in fact. I used to play DMB quite a bit but as you mentioned, it was an empty feeling. However, if you put Bonds 2001 stats into OOTP, you WILL get him hitting 85 HRs and having a sick OPS. The reason Hollandsworth hit that is one of those DMB flaws, I mean he was sick Vs. RH <.408-.448-.735>, but only had 98ABs. Give him 500ABs Vs. RH in DMB and he will have those numbers, just multiplied by 5. Guys like Damon Minor hit 75 HRs in the 2000 disk. But it's those flaws I don't like. Guys who had 25 Abs should not be winning triple crowns, or two guys who combined had 30IP should not be more a more dominating combo than Pedro-RJ. And yes, once you experiance the OOTP Career feeling, DMB is empty, and costs $50 more to play. DMB is going to find out next year, they better drastically lower their price or they're screwed. Why would you pay $50 more for a game with less overall quality?

03-10-2002, 06:57 AM	#6
masoo Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Berkeley, CA Posts: 155	My first post. I play 'em all. There's no comparison, they all do different things and offer different pleasures for the game player. I don't see the need to make pronouncements about how Game X is superior to all others (and, honestly, and I am very much enjoying OOTP, but if I only get one game, it's going to be Championship Manager). It makes sense to compare OOTP to, say, Baseball Mogul. But comparing it to Diamond Mind is silly, they do different things. __________________

03-10-2002, 08:39 AM	#7
InfamousMP Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New York Posts: 27	Almost everyone that reads these boards is a big OOTP fan, you really don't have much reason to be here otherwise. I think we can all (almost all) agree that OOTP is the best game going today. All around it is just a better game then anything we have seen so far. Still, that does not mean that the other games do not have areas that are just superior to OOTP. I must say that OOTP4 is a fantastic game and my hat goes off to those who worked on it. But as with everything in life, there is more that can be done and I am sure we on this board have ideas for what was missing, etc... Not really sure what the point was and now I am just rambling, but you get the idea. And if you don't, it happens. __________________ Baseball Maelstrom: New York Yankees CDL: Seattle Mariners FAST: Tampa Bay Devil Rays DBLC: Texas Rangers

03-10-2002, 08:52 AM	#8
Yossarian Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 87	[quote]Originally posted by I Am The Game: <strong>The reason Hollandsworth hit that is one of those DMB flaws, I mean he was sick Vs. RH <.408-.448-.735>, but only had 98ABs. Give him 500ABs Vs. RH in DMB and he will have those numbers, just multiplied by 5. Guys like Damon Minor hit 75 HRs in the 2000 disk. But it's those flaws I don't like. Guys who had 25 Abs should not be winning triple crowns, or two guys who combined had 30IP should not be more a more dominating combo than Pedro-RJ.</strong><hr></blockquote> Strat is the same way. Realistic usage = realistic results. You aren't really meant to be using 25 AB guys every day.

03-10-2002, 11:12 AM	#9
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,267	Keep in mind the settings for OOTP are adjustable so that you can edit and adjust the number of homers or hits in the league to get more accurate results. IatricSB's ERA calculator helps a great deal with this process.

03-10-2002, 05:19 PM	#10
I Am The Game All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 691	[quote]Originally posted by Yossarian: <strong> Strat is the same way. Realistic usage = realistic results. You aren't really meant to be using 25 AB guys every day.</strong><hr></blockquote> It's the every day guys like Hollandsworth that just got injured. I mean what, your not going to use the real life every day Left Fielder for the Colorado Rockies - especially hitting .400 Vs. RH - because he got injured?

03-11-2002, 04:31 AM	#11
unrealdemand Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: waxahachie Posts: 27	of course the DMB engine will not trade Willie Mays for Archer as just happened in my 1961 season...halfway through the season Mays is hitting .325 with 36 homers and 90 rbs and the computer GM trades him to KC for Archer who is 5-3 with 3.86 era...nothing's perfect I guess...or in the same season Post for Sturdivant...Post had 27 homers/68 rbis and is traded to the senators for sturdivant, a .500 pitcher who finishes 7-11 with a 4.66 there are "bad/unusual" results in both games...when you get tired of spitting in the wind...just enjoy them for what they are... __________________ bye!

03-11-2002, 05:29 PM	#12
Anonyomous Ghost Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 4	[quote]Originally posted by unrealdemand: <strong>there are "bad/unusual" results in both games...when you get tired of spitting in the wind...just enjoy them for what they are...</strong><hr></blockquote> Agreed. I've played Mogul and DMB for years, and enjoyed them very much. I downloaded OOTP4 within a few days of it being released and haven't stopped playing it since. No game comes close in terms of capturing all of the elements of the baseball world. That's not to say that OOTPs perfect, no game is. But its certainly going to get a lot more playing time over the next couple of months than DMB or HH2003.