Interleague Cooperation And Respect

[Crucified By The FOBL]

OK...I'm a regular board poster who assumed a new identity because of the backlash that comes out when anyone dares to call FOBL members to account for actions. However, the recent Matrix like saga of posts brings up some valuable topics that have been lost in the rapid disintegration of most discussions...

1. Taking another site's design without permission...or at least acknowledging that you "borrowed" the design idea from another site...is just plain wrong. I'm not nuts about people borrowing a site and putting a link at the bottom mentioning who they took it from. Get permission or don't do it.

Caveat: The proliferation of free programs like nukePhP it's quite possible people using identical templates will have extremely similar sites. That needs to be taken into account before immediately branding someone a thief.

2. A simple level of decorum could go a long way. What is the problem with the commissioner of a "ripped off" league (for lack of a better term) sending an e-mail to the commissioner who did the ripping asking to have the site changed or removed BEFORE you blast them in public?

I understand the argument that if you don't do it publicly that people will continue to do it. However, people will still continue to do it regardless of your public attacks. Some of them probably think it's a great way to get exposure for their league because people will be talking about it.

What's wrong with first going to the offending league's commish, then having the offended league's commish make posts both on the offending league's board and the OOTP board with a respectable amount of time to respond before the flame war begins? Give a guy a chance to own up and make amends.

If you go about it in a respectful manner and the league still refuses to bend then go ahead and get nasty. Remember though...the threat of unleashing hell can sometimes be more effective than actually unleashing it....

3. If your league isn't mentioned in a thread or the thread isn't soliciting input from other leagues then show some respect and stay out of it. (Yes, this is directed a bit at the FOBL.) Making crude comments and innuendo and/or posting provocative pictures just to be funny in another league's thread is irresponsible and childish. You may think you're being funny but in reality that thread had nothing to do with you...so stay out of it. If you want to call attention to yourself, start your own thread.

4. The more cohesive the ownership in a league the better the league can become. Regardless of what you think about the tone of the owners or the content of the FOBL site they provide a great example of active owners who give a damn about their league. How many leagues have owners ready to run to the defense of their league? Not as many as you may think.

If more internet leagues had the same dedication and loyalty as the FOBL guys then perhaps we wouldn't have new leagues springing up almost every day. Turnover in leagues would be much lower and the ownership level would increase because it would take a higher commitment to get into leagues.

5. Perhaps the creation of a site with league templates would benefit the OOTP community. (Forgive me if one exists.) Perhaps established leagues like Boys of Summer or FOBL could take old sites and post them for use by newbie leagues (with a required acknowledgement.) If a league goes to a new design and the old is being tossed away, why not provide a chance for newbies to break in with something mildly decent to view? Doesn't it make OOTP internet leagues overall better if they all don't look like they were designed in a car wash in Oregon?

Bottom line is this: there are hundreds of leagues and some are better than others. Some deserve more respect than others. Some deserve more derision than others. Some are run by one guy controlling all the teams so he can win each year. How about we show a little respect to each other and try to make things better for everyone?

[CommishJoe]

I dont usually jump into these, but...

1. Posting under your real name would get you more credibility. Posting under an alias will just breed more attacks. I almost didn't read it because it was posted by an alias.

2. I agree it could have been handled better .. but so did they. I think they learned their lesson already .. as did anyone thinking about copying the FOBL site design .

3. Your point about Nuke is true to an extent, but the FOBL did all of their work from scratch. If 2 sites are using Nuke, then I highly doubt one or the other would complain very much unless there was true customization done to it. If they just download a skin, I doubt they will complain very much

Well, that's my 2 cents for the month.

[Crucified By The FOBL]

Joe, I agree but we also know there is a pretty good chance of flames against me because of the post. The rest of the guys in my league don't deserve to get profanity and obscene posts on the message board because of what I had to say.

I wish I could have posted opinions without fear of indecent attacks but after what I've seen on the past few threads in this vein I just can't trust it won't happen.

[MrIllini]

I can't recall any time that a message board was raided because of a post on this board.

I also don't put a lot of stock in the opinions of someone who has to hide behind an alias for fear of being flamed...aren't flame posts part of the beauty of forums?

Besides, if you didn't want to get flamed, why bring this all back up for the nineteenth time in the last three days?

$0.02

[Subby]

Originally posted by Crucified By The FOBL
I wish I could have posted opinions without fear of indecent attacks but after what I've seen on the past few threads in this vein I just can't trust it won't happen.

Unless you stole something from our league then you have nothing to worry about...

And if you don't think over-the-top, public reprisals are a good way to deter folks from ripping off sh</i>it you worked long and hard on, then you are dumber than your cowardly, embarrassing nom-de-guerre...

I mean really. One of our league members allegedly killed a drifter once!!!! I don't think you want any of that

PS. In the interest of community-wide cooperation and camraderie, I have faxed full frontal nudes of Mark Cooley to everyone registered on this forum. They cost me a pretty penny, so please don't churn them on eBay.

[Crucified By The FOBL]

MrIllini...I don't know if a board was raided. But after the response I've seen to someone who offended a part of the FOBL, and they have attacked message boards of leagues who "wrong" them, can you blame me for thinking the possibility?

[CJP]

Originally posted by Crucified By The FOBL
Joe, I agree but we also know there is a pretty good chance of flames against me because of the post. The rest of the guys in my league don't deserve to get profanity and obscene posts on the message board because of what I had to say.

I wish I could have posted opinions without fear of indecent attacks but after what I've seen on the past few threads in this vein I just can't trust it won't happen.

Oh, gee, I guess the FOBL Taliban is somehow curbing your right to free speech. What, do you want the freedom to call other people out and speak your mind, without having to give the other side the same consideration? That's weak. So what if our response was crude and aggressive? That doesn't undermine the point that your guy was dead wrong and that we had every right to be pissed off about it, especially since our remarks got right to that point. In the end, you know we're right and your guy is the real culprit, no matter how much time and effort you guys put in to trying to make us look like we did something wrong here. Screw you if you think we don't play nice or if you think we're too crude to mix with the rest of you sycophants - if we're such *******s and such a dickbag league (or whatever it was that OakJeff called us), why did you rip off our design in the first place?

Grow up, you clown. The FOBL reacted so strongly because (1) OakJeff is a complete tool and showed himself to be that on our boards, (2) We had an incident a little while ago where our stuff got ripped off and we're tired of dealing with this nonsense, (3) Your guy responsible for the latest bit of thievery tried to make it sound as though it was no big deal that he misappropriated 200 hours of our guys' hard work with the justification that "it's just fake baseball." That's crap - taking anyone else's hard work and original ideas and claiming them as your own is plagiarism, no matter how small the stakes might be, and it needs to be dealt with harshly. Additionally, since some of the people who did the web development may want to (or have to) use it as part of their portfolio for their professional life, the stakes are considerably higher than "just fake baseball."

All that aside, if someone has to stoop to the level of ripping off an entire other site, it marks them as a total jackass who isn't even smart enough to come up with something halfway decent on his own. And that putz isn't even smart enough to at least do a good job of covering his tracks after ripping someone off. What a baboon.

btw, nice pseudonym. "Crucified by the FOBL" ... I guess Mel Gibson's going to make a movie with us as the bad guys next.

[Subby]

Originally posted by Crucified By The FOBL
MrIllini...I don't know if a board was raided. But after the response I've seen to someone who offended a part of the FOBL, and they have attacked message boards of leagues who "wrong" them, can you blame me for thinking the possibility?

Please stop equating being offended to being stolen from.

And let me know if you think Cooley is a natural brunette...

[Crucified By The FOBL]

Originally posted by CJP
Screw you if you don't think we play nice or if you think we're too crude to mix with the rest of you sycophants - if we're such *******s and such a dickbag league (or whatever it was that OakJeff called us), why did you rip off our design in the first place?

A perfect example of why I had to use a pseudonym.

If you actually read the whole post instead of the part asking for decorum you would have seen that I agreed what the offending league did was wrong.

The pseudonym is there because it's a foreshadowing of exactly what's happening.

[wignasty]

We all know this is you OakJefferson.

Stop hiding

[MrIllini]

big words

too much drama...

I think this is actually foreshadowing something being crammed into Fritz' pussy

[Scarecrow]

Originally posted by Crucified By The FOBL
OK...I'm a regular board poster who assumed a new identity because of the backlash that comes out when anyone dares to call FOBL members to account for actions. However, the recent Matrix like saga of posts brings up some valuable topics that have been lost in the rapid disintegration of most discussions..

Follow CommishJoes suggestion, he's a brilliant man

1. Taking another site's design without permission...or at least acknowledging that you "borrowed" the design idea from another site...is just plain wrong. I'm not nuts about people borrowing a site and putting a link at the bottom mentioning who they took it from. Get permission or don't do it.

Caveat: The proliferation of free programs like nukePhP it's quite possible people using identical templates will have extremely similar sites. That needs to be taken into account before immediately branding someone a thief.

So it would be ok if a league copied another leagues script, and put 'copied from **** league' at the bottom?

2. A simple level of decorum could go a long way. What is the problem with the commissioner of a "ripped off" league (for lack of a better term) sending an e-mail to the commissioner who did the ripping asking to have the site changed or removed BEFORE you blast them in public?

I understand the argument that if you don't do it publicly that people will continue to do it. However, people will still continue to do it regardless of your public attacks. Some of them probably think it's a great way to get exposure for their league because people will be talking about it.

What's wrong with first going to the offending league's commish, then having the offended league's commish make posts both on the offending league's board and the OOTP board with a respectable amount of time to respond before the flame war begins? Give a guy a chance to own up and make amends.

If you go about it in a respectful manner and the league still refuses to bend then go ahead and get nasty. Remember though...the threat of unleashing hell can sometimes be more effective than actually unleashing it....

Due to FOBL's past experience with OakJefferson, first going to the commish would have been futile.

3. If your league isn't mentioned in a thread or the thread isn't soliciting input from other leagues then show some respect and stay out of it. (Yes, this is directed a bit at the FOBL.) Making crude comments and innuendo and/or posting provocative pictures just to be funny in another league's thread is irresponsible and childish. You may think you're being funny but in reality that thread had nothing to do with you...so stay out of it. If you want to call attention to yourself, start your own thread.

I'm not sure which thread you're talking about. We don't pillage through other leagues posting stuff just for attention.

4. The more cohesive the ownership in a league the better the league can become. Regardless of what you think about the tone of the owners or the content of the FOBL site they provide a great example of active owners who give a damn about their league. How many leagues have owners ready to run to the defense of their league? Not as many as you may think.

If more internet leagues had the same dedication and loyalty as the FOBL guys then perhaps we wouldn't have new leagues springing up almost every day. Turnover in leagues would be much lower and the ownership level would increase because it would take a higher commitment to get into leagues.

You're correct in this statement. Being one of the few (if not the only) FOBL owners that is in other league, I'll tell you that the FOBL is my (and probably many other owners) passion and obsession. Why do you think we have 17 owners in a chat room right now?

5. Perhaps the creation of a site with league templates would benefit the OOTP community. (Forgive me if one exists.) Perhaps established leagues like Boys of Summer or FOBL could take old sites and post them for use by newbie leagues (with a required acknowledgement.) If a league goes to a new design and the old is being tossed away, why not provide a chance for newbies to break in with something mildly decent to view? Doesn't it make OOTP internet leagues overall better if they all don't look like they were designed in a car wash in Oregon?

That's what PhP Nuke is for.

Bottom line is this: there are hundreds of leagues and some are better than others. Some deserve more respect than others. Some deserve more derision than others. Some are run by one guy controlling all the teams so he can win each year. How about we show a little respect to each other and try to make things better for everyone?

We RESPECT many leagues in the OOTP. It's the ones that have no respect for what the FOBL has become that garner our wrath.

[Crucified By The FOBL]

OK, OakJefferson may be a total weenie but is the concept of going to the commissioner first THAT wrong?

[Simms]

Here's the million dollar question....

If going to the commish of the offending league first, and taking care of business quitely and discretely is such a far better option, what is the benefit to US (the FOBL)? What's in it for us?

Seriously.

If you can come with a legitimate answer to that question, then maybe we'll consider different action the next time.

(Who am I kidding...we won't, but you'll earn my respect. )

[obpbsl]

Why do you need a benefit? Just asking.

[Simms]

Because, as too often gets lost in the hell-raising that follows, we're the victims.

If somebody ripped off your bank account to the tune of a couple thousand dollars, would you consider a polite phone call, an apology from the guy who did it, and the return of the $200 he hadn't already spent restitution, or would you be pushing to see him get strung up at trial and sent to jail for a while?

I'm guessing the latter.

[spleen1015]

I would have to say the everything that could be said about this whole ordeal has already been said.

The guy who started this thread wanted to get the firestorm started again but doesn't want anyone to know who started it.

Plain and simple. Be a man and post under your real name. The FOBL only go after those who wrong them in some way.

You're a coward, whoever you are.

[obpbsl]

Originally posted by spleen1015
I would have to say the everything that could be said about this whole ordeal has already been said.

The guy who started this thread wanted to get the firestorm started again but doesn't want anyone to know who started it.

Plain and simple. Be a man and post under your real name. The FOBL only go after those who wrong them in some way.

You're a coward, whoever you are.

Sounds like the mafia.

[mad0die]

Originally posted by wignasty
We all know this is you OakJefferson.

Stop hiding

Oak is not nearly that grammatically correct (remember, he's Canadian).

You got flamed anyway, why use a pseudonym?

[CommishJoe]

Originally posted by Scarecrow
Follow CommishJoes suggestion, he's a brilliant man

Well, at least 1 good thing came out of this thread

Thanks Scarecrow