Relief for Relievers

phunengames · 02-03-2004, 07:05 PM

Too many middle relivevers can be closers. Being a closer should be special.

Skipaway · 02-04-2004, 04:50 AM

So what's special about Tim Worrell? Rocky Biddle? Joe Borowski? Lance Carter? Did they all attend some kind of closer school before 2003?

SandMan · 02-04-2004, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phunengames
Too many middle relivevers can be closers. Being a closer should be special.

Being a closer is not special - BEING A DOMINANT CLOSER IS!!!

Most middle relievers can close - but not all of them well. If you were to put an average MR as a closer he may save 20-25 games for you but probably blow 10-15 or worse yet either lead you teams in WINS or LOSSES. I just ran a season where I had 11 starters on my pitching staff - no MR or CL. My "closer" finished with a 8-14, 3.94 record and 17 saves. This was in a 154 game schedule so my closer was had a decision/save in over 25 percent of the games played. Not good! But he did close - just not very effectively. BTW, my starters started 39,38,34,31,with 2 others with 1 start. My leader in losses was the closer, and I had 2 relievers with 9 wins. Interesting season when your starters get about 20 decisions when they start almost 40 games....

I did not go with this strategy the following year and picked up 5 4-5 star MR in the offseason. I only did this because it appears that the computer AI will often trade you a 4-5 star reliever for a 1-2 star starters so I wanted to see if the lower grade starter was "worth" the same as the reliever - and I put him into MR slots. I may run a season where I only have MR on the team with 5 of them with a E in Durability. I won't change their role just the slot on the rotation - I love using my current league as a TEST environment.....

phunengames · 02-04-2004, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SandMan
Being a closer is not special - BEING A DOMINANT CLOSER IS!!!

Most middle relievers can close - but not all of them well. If you were to put an average MR as a closer he may save 20-25 games for you but probably blow 10-15 or worse yet either lead you teams in WINS or LOSSES. I just ran a season where I had 11 starters on my pitching staff - no MR or CL. My "closer" finished with a 8-14, 3.94 record and 17 saves. This was in a 154 game schedule so my closer was had a decision/save in over 25 percent of the games played. Not good! But he did close - just not very effectively.

You kind of made my point. All a closer is is a middle reliever that can get the job done in the 9th inning. Not all MR's can be closer and I the the game should reflected it. Not all closers are great some are better than others. It would be nice if the game made havinging a killer closer special and not get some 5 star MR you throw in. If the game is going to have the CL postion it should mean something. In real life not all great MR's make great CL's and not all CL's make great MR's. From starters to relievers every role on the staff is defined. When one cog breaks you have pitching problems. You saw thin is you 11 starter experiment. I would like the game to make having a "DOMINANT CLOSER!!!" be more special and the best way I think you can do that is make the CL special to begin with.

Gastric ReFlux · 02-05-2004, 04:05 PM

Yeah, the Dodgers were able to spot Eric Gagne in real life because he had the word "Closer" tattooed upon his chest, and they knew they had something special in him. In fact, all real-life closers have that on their chests and OOTP should reflect real life in telling us that a guy has a Closer tag.

Karros270 · 02-05-2004, 05:03 PM

Is that why Jose Mesa sucked so bad last year? I think he only had a temporary tatoo.

Gastric ReFlux · 02-06-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Karros270
Is that why Jose Mesa sucked so bad last year? I think he only had a temporary tatoo.

Yeah, I'm not sure what happened last year, but Bowa definitely should have had Mesa take off his shirt and check for the tattoo. You shouldn't mess around when you're deciding on your DOMINANT CLOSER--that whole thing of seeing the guy pitch in actual games is overrated, and after the fact. Whereas with Gagne, he's got DOMINANT CLOSER written all over him, that you don't need to do anything like putting him in games to know that he's the ONE.

Karros270 · 02-06-2004, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gastric ReFlux
Yeah, I'm not sure what happened last year, but Bowa definitely should have had Mesa take off his shirt and check for the tattoo. You shouldn't mess around when you're deciding on your DOMINANT CLOSER--that whole thing of seeing the guy pitch in actual games is overrated, and after the fact. Whereas with Gagne, he's got DOMINANT CLOSER written all over him, that you don't need to do anything like putting him in games to know that he's the ONE.

I always thought Gagne was like Sampson, I thought he got all his power from his goatee but now that you mention it I did notice that he had dominant closer written all over him, I guess that should have been my first clue that he would be so good.

ronsantohof · 02-07-2004, 07:53 PM

What happened in the ALL-STAR game? Gagne pitched the 8th inning and blew the game. He can only pitch the 9th inning. He's not good enough to pitch any other inning.

02-03-2004, 07:05 PM	#1
phunengames Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 29	Relief for Relievers Too many middle relivevers can be closers. Being a closer should be special.

02-04-2004, 04:50 AM	#2
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	So what's special about Tim Worrell? Rocky Biddle? Joe Borowski? Lance Carter? Did they all attend some kind of closer school before 2003? __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

02-05-2004, 05:03 PM	#6
Karros270 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,392	Is that why Jose Mesa sucked so bad last year? I think he only had a temporary tatoo. __________________ now everybody's praying...don't prey on me

02-07-2004, 07:53 PM	#9
ronsantohof Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dermot, KS Posts: 197	What happened in the ALL-STAR game? Gagne pitched the 8th inning and blew the game. He can only pitch the 9th inning. He's not good enough to pitch any other inning. __________________ Guilt or innocence, that's not my job. It's my duty to pick up scum-sucking punks like yourself who are accused of a crime. A jury of twelve really stupid people who are easily swayed by rich, fat-cat, slimy lawyers, who'll do anything but tell the truth, will sit in judgment of you. It's as American as a burrito. Eschew obfuscation.

02-05-2004, 04:05 PM	#5
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Yeah, the Dodgers were able to spot Eric Gagne in real life because he had the word "Closer" tattooed upon his chest, and they knew they had something special in him. In fact, all real-life closers have that on their chests and OOTP should reflect real life in telling us that a guy has a Closer tag.