DISCUSSION: Tanking - What to do? - Page 2

treedom · 01-28-2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mad0die
Don't you have something better to do than sitting at a computer defending the obvious tanking actions of your "brother"? If you ever want credibility, I suggest you quit using each other's IDs as well. You will never be believed.

yeah really, fanzerpants...user ids on this board are free, you know...

Chappy · 01-28-2004, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
Note to self:

Never let Chappy in any league I'm running.

Forgive me for being naive, Mark, but I'm sure anyone who has ever been commissioner for or a fellow owner in an online league with me would support my credibility as a committed and fair player.

And while I myself would never actually DO this (tank to get a draft pick; personally I think it is a stupid strategy because one #1 pick isn't really going to help you that much, we do use 25 man rosters), I don't see how it can properly be policed either. In the instance presented, where the player basically admits he is tanking, everything is pretty clear cut and I can see how action could be taken (as far as a commissioner booting somebody). But where do you draw the line? How do you prove motivation in less black and white cases? Do you begin a witch hunt and start making accusations to people are legitimately rebuilding? What happens when somebody trades their top players for prospects and then coincedentally goes on a losing streak? Do you start punishing anyone who makes a trade you don't agree with? Everyone has different strategies, and if you start throwing stones at people who do things differently than you then you just might be throwing stones at the wrong people.

Anyhow. I don't think it is fair for you to slander my name as an online player just because I don't feel the above commissioner should necessarily do anything other than let the owner stew in his own mess.

Chappy · 01-28-2004, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by treedom
When someone does something so blatantly unrealistic as moving ML quality players to AAA just to exploit the engine, that gets in the way of everyone's enjoyment.

Okay, forgive me for my prior rant, Mr. Cooley. I guess I didn't read the original post very well.

I assumed the good players on this team were being traded away or released, not stockpiled in AAA for a later time. I see how this would ruin the integrity of a league, and agree that owners acting this way don't have any business competing online.

simboy · 01-28-2004, 07:55 PM

Boot him!! I would also put in a draft lottery as previously posted, say bottom 8 teams are involved.

I firmly believe tanking is another form of cheating.

Rhodes 40 Saves · 01-28-2004, 08:31 PM

well, I looked at this team in question since I am in another league with the GM we are discussing.

http://www.tmbu.com/files/ttrans3.html

It looks to me like most of his moves were in fact honorable. He TRADED for top prospects. By reading this thread I assumed he had kept his good players and moved them to AAA but this isn't so. Cutting his closer was totally inexcusable though. Still, it looks to me that he was simply making moves for the future of his team and most moves, aside from cutting his closer look fair. I would probably give him some form of penalty but firing him might be harsh. It's pretty clear to me that he is shooting for last, but I also think he is really trying to make his team a contender in a few years based on the trades I see

Oakjefferson · 01-28-2004, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhodes 40 Saves
By reading this thread I assumed he had kept his good players and moved them to AAA but this isn't so.

www.tmbu.com

download the league file, look up MEX then tell me that

Cooleyvol · 01-28-2004, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chappy
Forgive me for being naive, Mark, but I'm sure anyone who has ever been commissioner for or a fellow owner in an online league with me would support my credibility as a committed and fair player.

And while I myself would never actually DO this (tank to get a draft pick; personally I think it is a stupid strategy because one #1 pick isn't really going to help you that much, we do use 25 man rosters), I don't see how it can properly be policed either. In the instance presented, where the player basically admits he is tanking, everything is pretty clear cut and I can see how action could be taken (as far as a commissioner booting somebody). But where do you draw the line? How do you prove motivation in less black and white cases? Do you begin a witch hunt and start making accusations to people are legitimately rebuilding? What happens when somebody trades their top players for prospects and then coincedentally goes on a losing streak? Do you start punishing anyone who makes a trade you don't agree with? Everyone has different strategies, and if you start throwing stones at people who do things differently than you then you just might be throwing stones at the wrong people.

Anyhow. I don't think it is fair for you to slander my name as an online player just because I don't feel the above commissioner should necessarily do anything other than let the owner stew in his own mess.

Chappy,
No slander intended, but if you don't see the big deal in tanking to get a good pick, then you're not the type of owner I want to associate with.

BTW, I define tanking as not putting your best team on the field or in the ML level if they are obviously ready for both.

Nothing personal intended and I feel sure your thoughts on this came across wrong merely b/c they were typed and not spoken.

Carlton · 01-28-2004, 09:55 PM

Cut him some slack, maybe his hero is Bud Selig, and he is oblivious to anything BUT tanking.

Chappy · 01-28-2004, 10:05 PM

Yes, that's it.

And perhaps someday my DAUGHTER can own a team in one of Cooley's leagues...

I probably never should have posted in this thread without thoroughly reading the original post, and now I feel like I have to defend myself. Oh well, I guess it is my own fault!

JoshSamBob · 01-28-2004, 10:14 PM

Let me put this simply:

"Rebuilding" is one thing. I am doing that in FIBB. But in that league, I am still putting good young players like Soriano and Kearns on the field - I am a poor yet still mediocre team.

"Tanking" involves deliberately keeping your best players OFF the field. What this does is skew the playing field - teams in that division will play the tanking team more, and therefore get an unfair shot at additional wins, thereby effecting the Wild Card standings and home-field advantage in the playoffs.

Capisce?

clarnzz · 01-28-2004, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoshSamBob
Let me put this simply:

"Rebuilding" is one thing. I am doing that in FIBB. But in that league, I am still putting good young players like Soriano and Kearns on the field - I am a poor yet still mediocre team.

"Tanking" involves deliberately keeping your best players OFF the field. What this does is skew the playing field - teams in that division will play the tanking team more, and therefore get an unfair shot at additional wins, thereby effecting the Wild Card standings and home-field advantage in the playoffs.

Capisce?

Yes, but the guy could of put the same team out on the field he is now and just traded all the players instead of demoting them. It's not really that it changes the results of skewing the league, because he could have the same team on field either way. With him just cutting the guys and putting them in AAA is pretty much a sign of disrepect if you have talked to him about it, and shows this persons nature if he can't see how wrong what he is doing is.

fanzerpaust · 01-28-2004, 10:48 PM

please go to this website to see my explanation:

here

Make sure you read the IM conversations.

Jordan

Carlton · 01-28-2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chappy
Yes, that's it.

And perhaps someday my DAUGHTER can own a team in one of Cooley's leagues...

I probably never should have posted in this thread without thoroughly reading the original post, and now I feel like I have to defend myself. Oh well, I guess it is my own fault!

That wasn't aimed at you Chappy, but that fanzer guy or his "brother"

clarnzz · 01-28-2004, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fanzerpaust
please go to this website to see my explanation:

here

Make sure you read the IM conversations.

Jordan

So your explanation is that the commisioner was looking out for what was best for his league and owners and that you are complete assclown? I think we had already established that fact though, but thanks for the update anyway.

fanzerpaust · 01-28-2004, 10:59 PM

I suggest you guys don't say anything else that will make you look even more like dip****s than you already are, or you could end up on my website with SamBobby and Oak.

clarnzz · 01-28-2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fanzerpaust
I suggest you guys don't say anything else that will make you look even more like dip****s than you already are, or you could end up on my website with SamBobby and Oak.

I'd be honored. I love seeing my name in lights.

JoshSamBob · 01-28-2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fanzerpaust
please go to this website to see my explanation:

here

Make sure you read the IM conversations.

Jordan

fanzerpaust · 01-28-2004, 11:03 PM

Wow Josh, don't let everyone know how queer you are! Oops, too late.

Old Man · 01-28-2004, 11:09 PM

Karen where o where may you be?

holyroller · 01-28-2004, 11:10 PM

This thread r00lz!

View Poll Results: What would you do with this owner?
Talk to him again (for the third time)	1	3.70%
Warn/fine him	6	22.22%
Boot him	17	62.96%
Nothing	3	11.11%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

01-28-2004, 07:55 PM	#24
simboy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 36	Boot him!! I would also put in a draft lottery as previously posted, say bottom 8 teams are involved. I firmly believe tanking is another form of cheating. __________________ Free Agent

01-28-2004, 09:55 PM	#28
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	Cut him some slack, maybe his hero is Bud Selig, and he is oblivious to anything BUT tanking. __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

01-28-2004, 10:05 PM	#29
Chappy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,721	Yes, that's it. And perhaps someday my DAUGHTER can own a team in one of Cooley's leagues... I probably never should have posted in this thread without thoroughly reading the original post, and now I feel like I have to defend myself. Oh well, I guess it is my own fault! __________________ NPBL - Pennsylvania Freedom AFBL - North Carolina Aviators MLB-Pro - Kansas City Royals Last edited by Chappy; 01-28-2004 at 10:08 PM.

01-28-2004, 10:14 PM	#30
JoshSamBob Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Near Boston Posts: 143	Let me put this simply: "Rebuilding" is one thing. I am doing that in FIBB. But in that league, I am still putting good young players like Soriano and Kearns on the field - I am a poor yet still mediocre team. "Tanking" involves deliberately keeping your best players OFF the field. What this does is skew the playing field - teams in that division will play the tanking team more, and therefore get an unfair shot at additional wins, thereby effecting the Wild Card standings and home-field advantage in the playoffs. Capisce? __________________

01-28-2004, 08:31 PM	#25
Rhodes 40 Saves Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 6	well, I looked at this team in question since I am in another league with the GM we are discussing. http://www.tmbu.com/files/ttrans3.html It looks to me like most of his moves were in fact honorable. He TRADED for top prospects. By reading this thread I assumed he had kept his good players and moved them to AAA but this isn't so. Cutting his closer was totally inexcusable though. Still, it looks to me that he was simply making moves for the future of his team and most moves, aside from cutting his closer look fair. I would probably give him some form of penalty but firing him might be harsh. It's pretty clear to me that he is shooting for last, but I also think he is really trying to make his team a contender in a few years based on the trades I see

01-28-2004, 10:48 PM	#32
fanzerpaust Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 33	my explanation please go to this website to see my explanation: here Make sure you read the IM conversations. Jordan __________________ Toronto Blue Jays- SSBL http://ssbl.net/team_page.php?tid=5&roster=Active&mod= Atlanta Braves-OOTPO http://ootpo.halloffamesportsinc.com/files/index.html Last edited by fanzerpaust; 01-28-2004 at 10:50 PM.

01-28-2004, 10:59 PM	#35
fanzerpaust Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 33	I suggest you guys don't say anything else that will make you look even more like dip****s than you already are, or you could end up on my website with SamBobby and Oak. __________________ Toronto Blue Jays- SSBL http://ssbl.net/team_page.php?tid=5&roster=Active&mod= Atlanta Braves-OOTPO http://ootpo.halloffamesportsinc.com/files/index.html

01-28-2004, 11:03 PM	#38
fanzerpaust Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 33	Wow Josh, don't let everyone know how queer you are! Oops, too late. __________________ Toronto Blue Jays- SSBL http://ssbl.net/team_page.php?tid=5&roster=Active&mod= Atlanta Braves-OOTPO http://ootpo.halloffamesportsinc.com/files/index.html

01-28-2004, 11:09 PM	#39
Old Man Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 464	Karen where o where may you be? __________________ Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything. ~Toby Harrah, 1983 "All the fat guys watch me and say to their wives, 'See, there's a fat guy doing okay. Bring me another beer.'" -Mickey Lolich

01-28-2004, 11:10 PM	#40
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	This thread r00lz! __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”