JANUARY UPDATE: January 2, 2004

[Drood]

Oops.

[Drood]

Originally posted by Andreas Raht
No, that's not correct! That has been in the setup file available on the release day by mistake, and will be available after a few months again.

Due to some marketing reasons, OOTP Dev. will not offer a trial mode/demo mode during the first months after the release for any game.

Then fine, they've just a lost a sale. I have some money left over from Christmas and could justify buying the game now no problem. I don't have that much money most of the year, so now is my only option for buying it, but if that's the attitude, then fine. No demo, no sale.

[Jim Trunzo]

Several comments: (1) the patches should not have overwritten your data; (2) that will most assuredly be the case with any future patch - on my word!; (3) to Drood - I don't see an attitude here. There will be a demo eventually. I was not part of this decision and I will certainly find out why it is not the case from the get-go. However, the game has been on the market for a month, and I will urge them to release the demo immediately. However, you need to be aware that Andreas is the nicest person in the world. As a matter of fact, the only person in the group that has an attitude is me! Andreas is German, though, and while his command of the English language is very good, sometimes the way he states things, he comes across in a way not intended. I think you've overreacted. Give us a chance and we'll satisfy everyone if we can. I have no problems with someone wanting to see a demo first. But we are not Electronic Arts or Maxis or ActiVision. It takes us a bit longer to do things because we are a small company.

[Cap]

As the kids say, "Rock on!"

[almo]

Originally posted by Drood
Then fine, they've just a lost a sale. I have some money left over from Christmas and could justify buying the game now no problem. I don't have that much money most of the year, so now is my only option for buying it, but if that's the attitude, then fine. No demo, no sale.

Man....you are a bummer!!

Is there a demo for everygame? NO. From what I understand with OOTP ( and formerly 400 Studios) is that a demo is useally released 2-3 months after the game is released....... just chill!

[darthpb]

Jesus, let's keep the playa hatin' to a minimum...this is a civilized board...no more bitchin' please...hold on, my wife is calling(lol)...

[wildhawke11]

Originally posted by earl6125
I am surprised the voice commentary did get more ink..come on guys..its like listening to the old time fights..you remember..Schemeling and Louis...Dempsey and Tunney...Frazier and Ali...need I say more!

Earl

You remember -- The Dempsey v Tunney fights -- back in 1926 and 1927 WOW
You will have to sell me some of them *stay young forever pills* you are on
Sorry Earl could not resist that

Of course with all having TV today and being able to view the fights you can almost get away with having bad commentators doing the broadcasts during a live fight.

In my days as a young man we had no such luxury as a TV so to get a job broadcasting a live fight you needed to do more then just talk your way through a fight.

You had to put emotion into your voice, bring the listener right up there at ringside with you. I so wish i had a tape of one of the early fights as its impossible in words to describe the difference between today's commentators and a real good commentary from the 40s or 50s.

In fact as a boy my friends and i fixed up a sort of system where one of us used to speak in to a box and you could hear us pretending to be a broadcaster at a big fight in the next room.

With all modesty i can say in truth i was regarded as pretty good at it, i was boxing man as a youngster.

Marciano catches Louis with a tremendous right hand.
The Champion is staggering back -- he is hurt -- trying to hang on
Again Marciano - bores in

Another right hand from Marciano drives Joe Louis into the ropes
OH NOoooooo Louis is Downnnnnnnnn he has to take the count
Oneeee Twoooooooo Threeeeeeee
Louis is up at three - but he looks badly shaken

The whole stadium is up on its feet, they cant believe it, is this the end for the once great Champion.


Then of course there would be the minute rest between rounds now of course in them days there was no camera to zoom in on the fighters corner, So
The excited commentator would let his sidekick come in at this point.
He always spoke totally different. Calm and collected more like

" Well Louis up to this point i feel was dictating this round using his immaculate left jab. then of course Marciano threw that vicious right which has totally changed now the course of this fight " well it went something like that LOL

Like i said the written word cant do justice or show the change in the commentators voice, as he to let his feelings and emotions flow over the airwaves and come across to the listeners who sat with there ears glued to a small radio set.

Then next day at school we all would be fighting with each other in the playground hard times in them days but we thrived on it. Then of course there was always a boxing gym not far way. Well, more like a run down shack to be honest but it gave us a chance to live out a few dreams. although the big gloves at first felt like pillow cases on our small hands.
Cheers Lads LOL

[MiddleGA]

Originally posted by Jim Trunzo I will urge them to release the demo immediately ... I have no problems with someone wanting to see a demo first.

That's encouraging to hear.

And it's about all I could ask for, having someone go to bat for the (potential) consumers who are stuck here on the outside looking in.

To be blunt, the Trunzo involvement in this project is the only reason I have any interest in it, based upon my respect for the work you've done in the past.

This is a situation where I find myself wanting to be a customer, but not at the expense of buying the proverbial pig in a poke.
Best of luck,
Jon

[Drood]

Originally posted by MiddleGA
That's encouraging to hear.

And it's about all I could ask for, having someone go to bat for the (potential) consumers who are stuck here on the outside looking in.

To be blunt, the Trunzo involvement in this project is the only reason I have any interest in it, based upon my respect for the work you've done in the past.

This is a situation where I find myself wanting to be a customer, but not at the expense of buying the proverbial pig in a poke.
Best of luck,
Jon

Agree 100%

To the people bitching at me: Not releasing a demo within a week or two of games release, especially a small market one like this, is bad business. "Buy our product, you just can't see what it is until you've paid your money" is not a good marketing strategy. As for OOTP, downloading OOTP2 (which is free) will give you a fair idea of what you're getting. Unless I'm mistaken there is no way to get my hands on a prior version of this software to see if it's even something I'm interested in.

Baseball, I love the sport, have done for 20 years (despite being a Brit and only moving to Canada 7 years ago), therefore with baseball games, it isn't a huge stretch to guess that i'll like it. Being a borderline boxing fan, but a big sim fan, makes Title Bout a much greater unknown quantity. I'd LIKE to be able to try it out and fork over the money if it's the gem it appears from what people are saying, but there isn't a love for the sport behind the decision, unlike OOTP.

I have no idea who the Trunzo's are, so their involvement means little to me. (Sorry guys.) All I know is what I've learnt here in the last few days, and that's that they were involved with the game from Avalon Hill many years ago which on several occasions I almost bought. That's as far as my knowledge extends

The previous post was a bit grouchy. Horrendous back pain (long standing sadly) tends to make me surly. Sorry.

What really got me is by the sounds of things, the demo option was there at the start, then removed, which too me is nothing short of baffling. I'd be curious to hear the business mentality behind that. (Seriously, I don't mean that sarcastically.)

Now how about a group hug?

[Andreas Raht]

Originally posted by vistaman44
Andreas;
Does that mean we will lose our groups again if we download and apply the upcoming patches? Say it ain't so!

It ain't so

Don't worry, it will be a major issue for me for each upcoming patch to make sure that you won't lose any data.

[vistaman44]

Originally posted by Jim Trunzo
Several comments: (1) the patches should not have overwritten your data; (2) that will most assuredly be the case with any future patch - on my word!

Jim;
Your intentions are good, and that is great news.
My concern is that the group I've created and the fighters in it will disappear. I know with the first database patch it did, and with the importer it wants to overwrite groups and fighters, instead of add them (see the import patch string stickied above).
Thanks for your continued efforts.

[PittPanther]

Drood--

The return policy is 7 days. Although, as a non-boxing fan, I'm not sure you will enjoy it. It is rather rough around the edges, but if you are interested at all why not try it and promptly return it if its not the game for you.

[BasicGuy]

Originally posted by Andreas Raht
No, that's not correct! That has been in the setup file available on the release day by mistake, and will be available after a few months again.

Due to some marketing reasons, OOTP Dev. will not offer a trial mode/demo mode during the first months after the release for any game.

Well It looks like a the min a few months before I consider purchaseing this game....I haven't played many boxing sims and refuse to consider purchasing a game like this untill I play the demo.

And yes I relize theres a 7day return window....But thats not acceptable. I shouldn't have to purchase the game to demo It.

[Drood]

Originally posted by BasicGuy
Well It looks like a the min a few months before I consider purchaseing this game....I haven't played many boxing sims and refuse to consider purchasing a game like this untill I play the demo.

And yes I relize theres a 7day return window....But thats not acceptable. I shouldn't have to purchase the game to demo It.

*nods in agreement*

Given the hassle I've had in the past getting refunds off companies on the net, (such as companies who, when supposed to be refunding, actually charged me a further 3 times) it's not worth the aggravation.

[BasicGuy]

Well part of the reason Its a hassle for me Is I no longer have a credit card(I had one of those Check Card VISA's but am In the process of switching banks) and would have to order the game by sending in a money order and If I didn't like the game asking for a refund.(and praying It don't get lost In the mail or theres some kind of Fee for mailing you a refund check)

It wouldn't be as big a hassle If I had a CC I know...but not everyone has one and that should be taken Into account when deciding your(Ootp Developments) policy.

[Cap]

Ok, guys. Unless you are boxing fans or fans of text sims, you should definitely stay away. This is no teenager's arcade game with cartoon figures named King Rapper or Godzilla Man going Biff! Bam! Kapow! This is a serious sports simulation with a growing community of boxing nuts who tend to support fellow boxing nuts. Heck! One of us even calls himself Boxingnut!

Your best bet is to wait for the demo to come out and try it for yourself. Don't worry, we'll still be here when you come back.

Cap
(A legendary cheapskate)

[mking55]

For what it is worth.

I downloaded the game on the 1st day. I said before I would buy it, but then I saw the trial version. I must say I was SO IMPRESSED by that. I read it as, "They have great confidence in the product and are not afraid to show it to anyone AND they will do so off the bat so people can make their own minds up about it".

I chickened out of buying it until trying the trial version. As soon as my time was up, I purchased the game as I said I would. It would have had to have been the worst game ever for me to not have.

Anyhow, I am sorry to hear having the trial from the get-go was a mistake. I thought it having from the 1st day was brilliant. I am tired of people not wanting to stand behind their work, or roll out the "oh, it's a 1st generation work in progress excuse".

If the product is crap and/or buggy, I believe you need to suffer the wrath of all, including potential customers.

A trial version like you had (7 days or 25 uses) from day one speaks volumes and volumes about the gamemakers. And it is all positive.

I suggest (and what do I know anyways) that you put it back and strive to have it their from day one with all your products. It gets my respect, which is worth nothing, but is never the less hard to get.

[MiddleGA]

Originally posted by Cap
Don't worry, we'll still be here when you come back.

The question, of course, is how many will keep coming back? And for how long?

Gaming time is in rather short supply for a lot of adult buyers. And with EHM/CM Edition looming on the horizon,
among other titles, the competition for gaming time will probably be getting tougher instead of easier.

And that makes the probability of a purchase for me grow slimmer with time.

And I seriously doubt I'm alone on that.

So ... how many sales will the Trunzo's lose because of this rather odd policy?
(odd for the sports textsim niche at least).

[mking55]

Originally posted by MiddleGA
So ... how many sales will the Trunzo's lose because of this rather odd policy?
(odd for the sports textsim niche at least).

I don't think it's odd. Isn't it the standard in the text sports sim community?

The only one with a decent demo from the start was the .400 studios basketball game. There is no demo for their football which in that case seems to be just as well. OOTP baseball does not have a day one demo.

FOF doesn't count because the demo is awful. If I went by the demo, I would never have purchased that game. I am glad I discounted the demo and still bought the game.

That is why when I downloaded this on day one I was so impressed that there was a demo.

But I disagree that demo is standard. I wish I was wrong.

[MiddleGA]

mking55 --

Let's see here ...
CM 03/04 - demo
FOF2k4 - demo (which wasn't great but still existed & convinced me to buy)
Fast Break College BB - demo
FBB (pro version) - demo IIRC
TCY - demo
Baseball Mogul 2k4 - demo
Football Mogul 2k3 - demo
SAAP soccer - demo
Jump Shot Bball - demo
Face Off Hockey - demo

(EWR & EHM were freeware in their earlier incarnations, rendering demos a moot point.)

That's 10 with demo's without much effort to come up with them.

The list of exceptions to the rule I can find is considerably shorter than that, basically limited to OOTP/.400 products. It seems to be an idiosyncracy of their's, not something common to the industry AFAIC.