My Boxing Universe

wesley317 · 12-29-2003, 04:28 PM

I'm waiting for TBCB to come out with the roleplay feature so in the meantime I've been running my own little boxing universe using a simulator I created myself, modeled after the old eko game rules. I have TDCB from 400 studios which I simply use to generate the names of the fighters in my league. The fighters all have a certain period at which they peak and a period in which they decline. I think that makes it so realistic. Some fighters improve after their 1st or 2nd loss (ie Holyfield, Hopkins etc had some of their best years after suffering losses) while others are great undefeated fighters but never recover from their first defeat. Here are the current rankings:

ID # Rank Name W - L Points
7 1 Mike Dunlop 35 0 35 (WBC/WBA)
14 2 Erik Knight 38 2 34
18 3 Jerrod Duncan 30 1 28 (IBF)
19 4 Mike Bloom 28 0 28
17 5 Jonathan Bradley 27 0 27
1 6 Matt Redd 26 0 26
20 7 Elton Gattison 24 0 24
22 8 Clayton Williams 24 0 24
9 9 Rahim Kincaid 24 1 22
10 10 Jimmy Crawford 30 4 22
13 11 Ryan Kincaide 26 2 22
15 12 Joe Corrales 27 3 21
11 13 Jason Cotton 27 3 21
12 14 Khalid Williams 25 2 21
16 15 Larry Delea 24 2 20
8 16 Jeremy Davis 25 3 19
21 17 James Dupage 25 3 19
6 18 Chris Marek 25 3 19
4 19 Torrence Burditt 25 4 17
2 20 Scott Holbrook 25 4 17
3 21 Kyle Crawford 24 5 14
5 22 Jamal Weems 24 6 12

and here is a list of the most recent fights:
***Olympics***

30 Mike Bloom ( 24 - 0 ) defeats 31 Kelvin Riley ( 24 - 0 ).

32 Corey Crowell ( 24 - 0 ) defeats 33 Ryan Green ( 24 - 0 ).

Gold Medal 19 Mike Bloom ( 25 - 0 ) defeats 32 Corey Crowell ( 25 - 0 ).

19 Mike Bloom ( 26 - 0 ) defeats 10 Jimmy Crawford ( 30 - 3 ).

14 Erik Knight ( 37 - 2 ) defeats 13 Ryan Kincaide ( 26 - 1 ).

WBC/WBA 7 Mike Dunlop ( 34 - 0 ) defeats 12 Khalid Williams ( 25 - 1 ).

17 Jonathan Bradley ( 26 - 0 ) defeats 15 Joe Corrales ( 27 - 2 ).

19 Mike Bloom ( 27 - 0 ) defeats 4 Torrence Burditt ( 25 - 3 ).

Cap · 12-29-2003, 09:21 PM

That's the weird thing about sport sims. One guy can have a ton o' fun using a bunch of made up names, while another guy will look at those made up names and wonder how can you get any fun out of using fictional characters. The funny thing is they are all just names and numbers, history based or not.

I'm in the camp that prefers my fantasies based on reality.......

Cap

dempsonny · 12-30-2003, 12:41 PM

Cap,
I agree with you 100 %. It's why I won't buy OOTP baseball or football or whatever. I'll use Diamondmind, Strat or PC Baseball and Football. I can't get an imaginery picture of who's fighting. When I fight Shavers vs Burns I see a big muscular bald black man in my head stalking a short stocky white guy. I have no picture of Mike Bloom vs Kelvin Riley in my head. Not that there's anything wrong with that. By the way how big is Kelvin Riley? What type of fighter is he? See what I mean, no history no idea of what Bloom accomplishes by beating Kelvin Riley.

Gus

wildhawke11 · 12-30-2003, 01:51 PM

Dempsey and Cap
I feel just the same, in my head i see Jack Dempsey with two days growth of beard stalking the clean cut
ebony dancing master a peak Ali.
The great Ali well ahead on points, but Dempsey knows that just one quick explosive left hook can swing this fight his way. No figures on a screen can ever come close to the human brain when it comes to realism.

The smell of human sweat, the bloodthirsty baying crowd, two 195 lbs fit, solid muscled humans beings pitting their skills and strengths against each other.

Then i look around and see on my tv screen two fat guys with their guts hanging over their shorts both gasping for breath and its only the 7th round. The supreme 2003 fighting machines.
Pass me the Bucket Guys YUK LOL

Wesley
We all have different ideas depending on what appeals to us.Thats what i enjoy about this game its flexible.

But its worth the money. considering that of course it stands to reason it has to sold at a higher price then the more popular sports sim need to be, so as to make even a small profit.

12-30-2003, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wildhawke11
[B]Dempsey and Cap

Then i look around and see on my tv screen two fat guys with their guts hanging over their shorts both gasping for breath and its only the 7th round. The supreme 2003 fighting machines.
Pass me the Bucket Guys YUK LOL

You've been watching Kirk Johnson and Hasim Rahman lately?

Kevin · 12-30-2003, 03:13 PM

The real versus fictional is always an interesting dilemma. With Title Bout I see it both ways. With this version requiring significant manual work to develop and track a universe, real fighters seems the natural way to go to get an imersion factor.

Where fictional fighters seems to be preferable would be in the future role play career game where the possibilities are much more open ended.

Within the current game, it might also lend itself to fictional fighters if you intend set strategies and instructions during each fight rather than simming. That way you can play free of your biases and constraints from how you interpret the real life fighter.

Antonin · 12-30-2003, 06:00 PM

It's quite exciting to hold matches using the actual fighters, but some of us don't know the actual guys nearly as well as many folks here do. So the picture of a particular two guys fighting is not so vivid.

As I become more familiar with the big names and not-so-big names in the various divisions, I have found it to be very interesting to create a fighter and create my own back story for him, and see how he does against the real life fighters. It gives me more of a feeling of "having a stake in each bout," if that makes any sense...

As Kevin said, using fictional fighters is good if you want to give instructions during a bout. I'm sometimes reluctant to give instructions to the real-life fighters because I don't know if I would be screwing up their natural strategy and perhaps causing them to lose a bout they might have won. When it's "my" guy, I feel more relaxed about taking control and experimenting.

Number 6 · 12-30-2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dempsonny
Cap,
I agree with you 100 %. It's why I won't buy OOTP baseball or football or whatever. I'll use Diamondmind, Strat or PC Baseball and Football.

Slightly OT here, OOTP does rate real ballplayers, but changes their names. Changing the names back is a simple matter of downloading a roster file with the real names reinstated. You can also easily create your own historical rosters (with real names) using Sean Lahman's excellent data base, with a couple of mouse clicks.

crusadecat · 12-30-2003, 10:18 PM

I have to agree too that I can see making your universe could have its appeal. I enjoy thinking of a young hungry Mike Tyson fighting a young hungry Jack Dempsey. It creates pictures for me that I can relate to. However whatever way creates happiness for people for the game is great.

dempsonny · 12-31-2003, 10:43 AM

Number 6
Wasn't aware of that but it sounds like too much trouble unless the download does everything.
Antonin,
Your point is well taken. I thought the reason someone would do that would be if they had no connection with a fighters name. It's why most people concentrate on the HW's, they're better known. My wife would recognize who Tyson, Ali or Dempsey is (I named my dog that, the other is Sonny) but if I said Bernard Hopkins, Harry Greb or Sandy Saddler she wouldn't have a clue. My suggestion to you Antonin or anyone else not familiar with boxing history is to pick up a book that takes you through the years. There are a few good ones out there that are easy reading. I'm telling you you'll get a whole new appreciation of the game and its fighters. You'll see what crusadecat, Cap and Wildehawke are thinking as they visualize fights in their heads.

Gus

Number 6 · 12-31-2003, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dempsonny
Number 6
Wasn't aware of that but it sounds like too much trouble unless the download does everything.

Yes, you just download the file and copy it to your OOTP folder and away you go.

Back on topic, I agree about reading about the old fighters - when I first got the board game, 20 odd years ago, I bought Boxing:An Illustrated History by Harry Carpenter (the BBC's veteran boxing commentator) and just reading about the epic old fights and fighters really inspires you to want to replay the fights or even the entire careers of some of the old-time fighters. Reading about the prejudice faced by Jack Johnson also makes you want to fight the fights he would have probably fought in a more enlightened environrnent.

darthpb · 01-02-2004, 10:04 AM

The game is great but I need the real fighters, just my opinion. I'm pretty knowledgable about boxing circa '70's to present and ,of course, I know the old greats but I have even learned about a lot of old fighters and have taken a liking to them, you can't learn anything about fictional boxers. It doesn't really matter though as long as you're enjoying the game...I am...

cubedrum · 01-05-2004, 07:27 PM

He he, well I personally didn't start learning about the more obscure great boxers UNTIL I started playing Titlebout the board game. It really became the reason I played for a long while. The only way I could justify eating up huge blocks of my time playing a game was to actually accomplish some scholarly learning about the sweet science. Just reading about them was one thing, but to actually imagine it all happening in front of me made it stick. My photo archive was just magazines and a hand made index of same in those days.

Cube

Antonin · 01-06-2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cubedrum
He he, well I personally didn't start learning about the more obscure great boxers UNTIL I started playing Titlebout the board game. It really became the reason I played for a long while. The only way I could justify eating up huge blocks of my time playing a game was to actually accomplish some scholarly learning about the sweet science. Just reading about them was one thing, but to actually imagine it all happening in front of me made it stick.
Cube

A very, very good point. My own education has really accelerated since buying the game.

I still love to put my "own" boxers against the RL ones, though.

Dagrims · 01-08-2004, 08:08 AM

Wesley, your thread pretty much got hijacked, although the discussion it created is interesting. Bring it back to the original purpose by updating your fictional universe, perhaps in a new thread. You'll be able to tell how many people are reading it - I'm sure that if you give your fighters personalities, others will follow along.

Have fun!

Chris

12-29-2003, 04:28 PM	#1
wesley317 Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4	My Boxing Universe I'm waiting for TBCB to come out with the roleplay feature so in the meantime I've been running my own little boxing universe using a simulator I created myself, modeled after the old eko game rules. I have TDCB from 400 studios which I simply use to generate the names of the fighters in my league. The fighters all have a certain period at which they peak and a period in which they decline. I think that makes it so realistic. Some fighters improve after their 1st or 2nd loss (ie Holyfield, Hopkins etc had some of their best years after suffering losses) while others are great undefeated fighters but never recover from their first defeat. Here are the current rankings: ID # Rank Name W - L Points 7 1 Mike Dunlop 35 0 35 (WBC/WBA) 14 2 Erik Knight 38 2 34 18 3 Jerrod Duncan 30 1 28 (IBF) 19 4 Mike Bloom 28 0 28 17 5 Jonathan Bradley 27 0 27 1 6 Matt Redd 26 0 26 20 7 Elton Gattison 24 0 24 22 8 Clayton Williams 24 0 24 9 9 Rahim Kincaid 24 1 22 10 10 Jimmy Crawford 30 4 22 13 11 Ryan Kincaide 26 2 22 15 12 Joe Corrales 27 3 21 11 13 Jason Cotton 27 3 21 12 14 Khalid Williams 25 2 21 16 15 Larry Delea 24 2 20 8 16 Jeremy Davis 25 3 19 21 17 James Dupage 25 3 19 6 18 Chris Marek 25 3 19 4 19 Torrence Burditt 25 4 17 2 20 Scott Holbrook 25 4 17 3 21 Kyle Crawford 24 5 14 5 22 Jamal Weems 24 6 12 and here is a list of the most recent fights: *Olympics* 30 Mike Bloom ( 24 - 0 ) defeats 31 Kelvin Riley ( 24 - 0 ). 32 Corey Crowell ( 24 - 0 ) defeats 33 Ryan Green ( 24 - 0 ). Gold Medal 19 Mike Bloom ( 25 - 0 ) defeats 32 Corey Crowell ( 25 - 0 ). 19 Mike Bloom ( 26 - 0 ) defeats 10 Jimmy Crawford ( 30 - 3 ). 14 Erik Knight ( 37 - 2 ) defeats 13 Ryan Kincaide ( 26 - 1 ). WBC/WBA 7 Mike Dunlop ( 34 - 0 ) defeats 12 Khalid Williams ( 25 - 1 ). 17 Jonathan Bradley ( 26 - 0 ) defeats 15 Joe Corrales ( 27 - 2 ). 19 Mike Bloom ( 27 - 0 ) defeats 4 Torrence Burditt ( 25 - 3 ).

12-29-2003, 09:21 PM	#2
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,046	That's the weird thing about sport sims. One guy can have a ton o' fun using a bunch of made up names, while another guy will look at those made up names and wonder how can you get any fun out of using fictional characters. The funny thing is they are all just names and numbers, history based or not. I'm in the camp that prefers my fantasies based on reality....... Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

12-30-2003, 12:41 PM	#3
dempsonny Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: long island, n.y. Posts: 325	Cap, I agree with you 100 %. It's why I won't buy OOTP baseball or football or whatever. I'll use Diamondmind, Strat or PC Baseball and Football. I can't get an imaginery picture of who's fighting. When I fight Shavers vs Burns I see a big muscular bald black man in my head stalking a short stocky white guy. I have no picture of Mike Bloom vs Kelvin Riley in my head. Not that there's anything wrong with that. By the way how big is Kelvin Riley? What type of fighter is he? See what I mean, no history no idea of what Bloom accomplishes by beating Kelvin Riley. Gus __________________ A house without a dog is not a home. Last edited by dempsonny; 12-30-2003 at 12:44 PM.

12-30-2003, 01:51 PM	#4
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,952	Dempsey and Cap I feel just the same, in my head i see Jack Dempsey with two days growth of beard stalking the clean cut ebony dancing master a peak Ali. The great Ali well ahead on points, but Dempsey knows that just one quick explosive left hook can swing this fight his way. No figures on a screen can ever come close to the human brain when it comes to realism. The smell of human sweat, the bloodthirsty baying crowd, two 195 lbs fit, solid muscled humans beings pitting their skills and strengths against each other. Then i look around and see on my tv screen two fat guys with their guts hanging over their shorts both gasping for breath and its only the 7th round. The supreme 2003 fighting machines. Pass me the Bucket Guys YUK LOL Wesley We all have different ideas depending on what appeals to us.Thats what i enjoy about this game its flexible. But its worth the money. considering that of course it stands to reason it has to sold at a higher price then the more popular sports sim need to be, so as to make even a small profit. __________________ Always in our Hearts - RIP Danny 1939 - 2010

12-30-2003, 03:13 PM	#6
Kevin All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 503	The real versus fictional is always an interesting dilemma. With Title Bout I see it both ways. With this version requiring significant manual work to develop and track a universe, real fighters seems the natural way to go to get an imersion factor. Where fictional fighters seems to be preferable would be in the future role play career game where the possibilities are much more open ended. Within the current game, it might also lend itself to fictional fighters if you intend set strategies and instructions during each fight rather than simming. That way you can play free of your biases and constraints from how you interpret the real life fighter. __________________ It seems more like today than it did all day yesterday.

12-30-2003, 06:00 PM	#7
Antonin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,553	It's quite exciting to hold matches using the actual fighters, but some of us don't know the actual guys nearly as well as many folks here do. So the picture of a particular two guys fighting is not so vivid. As I become more familiar with the big names and not-so-big names in the various divisions, I have found it to be very interesting to create a fighter and create my own back story for him, and see how he does against the real life fighters. It gives me more of a feeling of "having a stake in each bout," if that makes any sense... As Kevin said, using fictional fighters is good if you want to give instructions during a bout. I'm sometimes reluctant to give instructions to the real-life fighters because I don't know if I would be screwing up their natural strategy and perhaps causing them to lose a bout they might have won. When it's "my" guy, I feel more relaxed about taking control and experimenting. __________________ "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" - Johnny Rotten (Sex Pistols), San Francisco, 14 January 1978 Last edited by Antonin; 12-30-2003 at 06:09 PM.

12-30-2003, 10:18 PM	#9
crusadecat All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 830	I have to agree too that I can see making your universe could have its appeal. I enjoy thinking of a young hungry Mike Tyson fighting a young hungry Jack Dempsey. It creates pictures for me that I can relate to. However whatever way creates happiness for people for the game is great.

12-31-2003, 10:43 AM	#10
dempsonny Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: long island, n.y. Posts: 325	Number 6 Wasn't aware of that but it sounds like too much trouble unless the download does everything. Antonin, Your point is well taken. I thought the reason someone would do that would be if they had no connection with a fighters name. It's why most people concentrate on the HW's, they're better known. My wife would recognize who Tyson, Ali or Dempsey is (I named my dog that, the other is Sonny) but if I said Bernard Hopkins, Harry Greb or Sandy Saddler she wouldn't have a clue. My suggestion to you Antonin or anyone else not familiar with boxing history is to pick up a book that takes you through the years. There are a few good ones out there that are easy reading. I'm telling you you'll get a whole new appreciation of the game and its fighters. You'll see what crusadecat, Cap and Wildehawke are thinking as they visualize fights in their heads. Gus __________________ A house without a dog is not a home.

01-02-2004, 10:04 AM	#12
darthpb All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Queens, NY a mile from Shea Posts: 690	The game is great but I need the real fighters, just my opinion. I'm pretty knowledgable about boxing circa '70's to present and ,of course, I know the old greats but I have even learned about a lot of old fighters and have taken a liking to them, you can't learn anything about fictional boxers. It doesn't really matter though as long as you're enjoying the game...I am... Last edited by darthpb; 01-02-2004 at 07:29 PM.

01-05-2004, 07:27 PM	#13
cubedrum All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 952	He he, well I personally didn't start learning about the more obscure great boxers UNTIL I started playing Titlebout the board game. It really became the reason I played for a long while. The only way I could justify eating up huge blocks of my time playing a game was to actually accomplish some scholarly learning about the sweet science. Just reading about them was one thing, but to actually imagine it all happening in front of me made it stick. My photo archive was just magazines and a hand made index of same in those days. Cube __________________ "If you build a man a fire, he stays warm for one day. If you set a man on fire, he stays warm for the rest of his life" - Edgar Frog

01-08-2004, 08:08 AM	#15
Dagrims Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,827	Wesley, your thread pretty much got hijacked, although the discussion it created is interesting. Bring it back to the original purpose by updating your fictional universe, perhaps in a new thread. You'll be able to tell how many people are reading it - I'm sure that if you give your fighters personalities, others will follow along. Have fun! Chris