3D Game Pitch to Contact, Pitch Around?

[Larryk007]

Is there a good source for why, when and how this works in the 3D game?

[Larryk007]

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=314995

I did find this from 2020

[ColumbusJets]

A few things to consider. The devs didn't respond in the linked thread. Answers in the thread are anecdotal. It is near impossible to test because there is so much noise in the signal. Something the devs have repeated said is that outcomes are determined per PA not per pitch. In a recent discussion about pitch location the majority of the people involved said it was irrelevant and the devs didn't post to contradict this.

Nothing conclusive here but taken as a whole it seems somewhat more likely than not that the feature isn't functional.

[cwhitman]

Originally Posted by ColumbusJets

A few things to consider. The devs didn't respond in the linked thread. Answers in the thread are anecdotal. It is near impossible to test because there is so much noise in the signal. Something the devs have repeated said is that outcomes are determined per PA not per pitch. In a recent discussion about pitch location the majority of the people involved said it was irrelevant and the devs didn't post to contradict this.

Nothing conclusive here but taken as a whole it seems somewhat more likely than not that the feature isn't functional.

I think it's functional, but not in the way people think. There are pitch around sliders, so I imagine that this is basically overwriting the that those sliders would also influence. I imagine that one of the inputs to deciding an output outcome is whether or not it pitches around or to batter.


So I think this has two options. One, pitch by pitch uses the first input and just delays the outcome. Or two, you actually get an outcome at each pitch (ie you select pitch around, it says ball 1, but that's actually just showing what the first pitch of an already decided 3 run homer is), and then when you decide what pitch 2 is going to be it actually recalculates the whole thing again and gives you a different outcome (so maybe it's now 1-1 on an outcome that will be a 1-2 double play ball), if this makes sense.

[Condor]

Originally Posted by cwhitman

I think it's functional, but not in the way people think. There are pitch around sliders, so I imagine that this is basically overwriting the that those sliders would also influence. I imagine that one of the inputs to deciding an output outcome is whether or not it pitches around or to batter.


So I think this has two options. One, pitch by pitch uses the first input and just delays the outcome. Or two, you actually get an outcome at each pitch (ie you select pitch around, it says ball 1, but that's actually just showing what the first pitch of an already decided 3 run homer is), and then when you decide what pitch 2 is going to be it actually recalculates the whole thing again and gives you a different outcome (so maybe it's now 1-1 on an outcome that will be a 1-2 double play ball), if this makes sense.

So which one is it? Option 1 - outcome already determined per PA (plate appearance) or Option 2 - outcome changes with every pitch in "pitch by pitch mode?"

[Bobfather]

I play in one pitch mode. I have on occasion used both of these options. I use pitch around when I have a relief pitcher with bad splits, but he has to face one hitter in 4 that should hit him hard. Left on Right. Pitch to contact is trickier; it scares me. But can comein handy when you just need one more pout from your pitcher.

How can an at-bat be determined on the first pitch? There are so many variables, pitch around, pitch to contact, throw over, and defensive settings. Take pitch, hit, and run, run and hit, steal, bunting, etc? And all these factors can change multiple times in one AB, even in one pitch mode

[cwhitman]

Originally Posted by Bobfather

I play in one pitch mode. I have on occasion used both of these options. I use pitch around when I have a relief pitcher with bad splits, but he has to face one hitter in 4 that should hit him hard. Left on Right. Pitch to contact is trickier; it scares me. But can comein handy when you just need one more pout from your pitcher.

How can an at-bat be determined on the first pitch? There are so many variables, pitch around, pitch to contact, throw over, and defensive settings. Take pitch, hit, and run, run and hit, steal, bunting, etc? And all these factors can change multiple times in one AB, even in one pitch mode

You misread me. Again, this is me theorizing, but one way it could work is it determines the outcome, but only shows you up to the pitch you’re at. And then when you make more decisions, you’ve now changed the outcome, but again, only showing you up to the pitch you’re at. You only see the outcome when it happens on the pitch you’re at.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by ColumbusJets

A few things to consider. The devs didn't respond in the linked thread. Answers in the thread are anecdotal. It is near impossible to test because there is so much noise in the signal. Something the devs have repeated said is that outcomes are determined per PA not per pitch. In a recent discussion about pitch location the majority of the people involved said it was irrelevant and the devs didn't post to contradict this.

Nothing conclusive here but taken as a whole it seems somewhat more likely than not that the feature isn't functional.

Your "nothing conclusive" conclusion means they (Markus as lead coder) added options to the game that do nothing. Why? To intentionally deceive the user into thinking there are more features than there are? "I wasn't going to buy OOTP but, they added "pitch around" and that changed my mind." It doesn't make sense. If that's the case than just have option 1 and "bunt" and avoid the fireworks that would follow being found out. IE it's not worth the risk. Wouldn't it be easier for a talented coder (hell, even an untalented coder) to write three formulas that change the math and likely outcomes? Then after writing the three formulas give you a 1,2, and 3 button to select between them.

Yes, outcomes are determined per PA. Nothing about that changes whether you select 1, 2, or 3. All will result in an outcome per PA. Each selection will run through it's own formula changing the way the outcome is calculated using all of the variables it does for any PA. From what you post I "know" you don't believe it, but hitting 2 will not give the same likely outcomes as 1.


As to the developer not answering in the old thread? My thought is they would think it a waste of time. History shows us no matter what they would say the person that thinks it's nonfunctional wouldn't believe them anyway.

[ColumbusJets]

Originally Posted by Bobfather

I play in one pitch mode. I have on occasion used both of these options. I use pitch around when I have a relief pitcher with bad splits, but he has to face one hitter in 4 that should hit him hard. Left on Right. Pitch to contact is trickier; it scares me. But can comein handy when you just need one more pout from your pitcher.

How can an at-bat be determined on the first pitch? There are so many variables, pitch around, pitch to contact, throw over, and defensive settings. Take pitch, hit, and run, run and hit, steal, bunting, etc? And all these factors can change multiple times in one AB, even in one pitch mode

It isn't determined on the first pitch. It isn't determined on the last pitch either.

[SkipBranham]

My thought process on this...

Why would the developers put this in the game if it does absolutely nothing? The only logical answer I can come up with is that they put it in because it does in fact carry some weight into the outcome.

[zappa1]

I think it does help in certain situations. Sometimes it backfires, too. I always check to see who's hot or cold also. I never pitch to contact with a hot hitter. You're asking for trouble.

[texasmame]

I almost never use PTC.

I feel like PA should mostly yield pop-ups or walks but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference at all.

[ColumbusJets]

Originally Posted by zappa1

I think it does help in certain situations. Sometimes it backfires, too. I always check to see who's hot or cold also. I never pitch to contact with a hot hitter. You're asking for trouble.

Hmmm.... curious about your thought process on this.

Let's say there is a batter who has a real rating to hit .250. He has the hot streak icon based on recent performance His hot streak batting average is .480 on a 12 for 25 performance. What is his rating for BA for his next PA?

[zappa1]

Try it and see how it works for you. I have and been burned many times pitching to contact with a hot hitter. How about a guy who is hot and has a high contact rating? Why would you help him out? It's all about the situation also. How many outs, runners on base who's next batter. I'm not saying that if the guys hot and you pitch to contact that he'll get a hit but I've seen it more often than not. Now suppose your pitcher has high movement rating? It just might be enough to get him to hit it less solidly. Even then, it could still be a hit. I've also seen a lot of times with a runner on third and less than two outs if you try to pitch around the batter, good chance for a wild pitch or passed ball. I have been burned that way. Mostly I play it straight up. Once in a while I'll try pitch to contact or pitch around.

[David Watts]

Would love to know how often computer controlled teams are pitching to contact, pitching around or even using the take a pitch feature? Well, I would like to know, but this isn't me asking for the pbp to get cluttered up with this info. Just think it would be interesting to know.

[SkipBranham]

Originally Posted by ColumbusJets

Hmmm.... curious about your thought process on this.

Let's say there is a batter who has a real rating to hit .250. He has the hot streak icon based on recent performance His hot streak batting average is .480 on a 12 for 25 performance. What is his rating for BA for his next PA?

The way I’ve always understood it is that ratings represent the player’s true talent level. So if a .250 hitter goes 12-for-25 and gets the hot icon, his underlying rating is still .250. The hot streak doesn’t suddenly make him a .480 hitter, it likely just adds a small temporary modifier to his ratings. In other words, he might perform like a .260 or .270 hitter for a short stretch instead of .250.

OOTP seems to layer small situational modifiers (hot/cold streaks, pitch strategy, fatigue, morale, etc.) on top of the core ratings system to create more realistic streakiness, but the ratings still drive the long-term outcomes.

[Benz0709]

The claim some have made that this isn’t functional is simply false. I play out many games, but I manage them on an at‑bat basis rather than pitch by pitch. From experience, I know that when I pitch around a hitter, the at‑bat is far more likely to result in a walk. Conversely, when I pitch to a hitter, I’m much more likely to give up a hit.

I use this approach situationally and based on matchups. Against high‑attribute hitters, I’ll usually pitch around them, especially the 3 and 4 hitters in a lineup. To me, “pitching to the batter” effectively means pitching to contact: attacking the zone rather than nibbling corners. If I have a good pitcher and low skills batter, i'm more likely to do this and see results of a strikeout.

I’m fully aware the game engine resolves outcomes at the at‑bat level, not on a per‑pitch basis. There’s no true pitch location or batted‑ball location being calculated. When we watch the play unfold, the result has already been determined. The visuals are simply a narrative of how we arrived there. They’re storytelling, not functionality.

[SkipBranham]

Originally Posted by Benz0709

The claim some have made that this isn’t functional is simply false. I play out many games, but I manage them on an at‑bat basis rather than pitch by pitch. From experience, I know that when I pitch around a hitter, the at‑bat is far more likely to result in a walk. Conversely, when I pitch to a hitter, I’m much more likely to give up a hit.

I use this approach situationally and based on matchups. Against high‑attribute hitters, I’ll usually pitch around them, especially the 3 and 4 hitters in a lineup. To me, “pitching to the batter” effectively means pitching to contact: attacking the zone rather than nibbling corners. If I have a good pitcher and low skills batter, i'm more likely to do this and see results of a strikeout.

I’m fully aware the game engine resolves outcomes at the at‑bat level, not on a per‑pitch basis. There’s no true pitch location or batted‑ball location being calculated. When we watch the play unfold, the result has already been determined. The visuals are simply a narrative of how we arrived there. They’re storytelling, not functionality.

I play the exact same way you do and in my experience this is all true. I mean, why have it there as an option if it does not do anything? This game is to complex for that.

[Bobbyraz49]

Originally Posted by ColumbusJets

Hmmm.... curious about your thought process on this.

Let's say there is a batter who has a real rating to hit .250. He has the hot streak icon based on recent performance His hot streak batting average is .480 on a 12 for 25 performance. What is his rating for BA for his next PA?

How do you find their hot streak batting average? TY

[ColumbusJets]

Originally Posted by Bobbyraz49

How do you find their hot streak batting average? TY

MLB League Menu > Statistics > Hot & Cold. If there are too many player players to be listed there your can go to Player Profile > Batting Stats > Batting Splits > Double Splits > Time Frame.