Manual Import

[luckymann]

I have no quantifiable data on this to share, so was merely hoping one of the devs could take note and check if I am onto something or just a bit slow to catch on.

In one of my saves, a dev only one that I manually import players into from all eras, I am seeing a definite lack of development and what seems like continual downward pressure on player ratings, many times to a drastic extent.

I have another similar save in which I am experiencing no such issue, and that fact gives me some element of a control group with which to potentially isolate the issue.

After doing some work in this regard, I believe the issue is stemming from my selecting the "double-weight" current year option, the only save I have ever selected this option for. I have attached a screenshot of the settings I apply in full when importing to this save.

This is only a new function, and I suspect either I straight-up misunderstood what this would do (highly likely), or the option is bugged and providing the hinky outcomes.

On further contemplation, I now think this doubles the weight of the player's import season, which of course for all of the players in this save is their rookie season, thus negatively skewing their development profile and engendering the downward pressure I am seeing.

Or, as I said, perhaps, the thing is not working properly and needs some seeing to.

Either way, I've stopped applying the double-weight and hopefully that will get this save back working how I want it to.

Hopefully a dev can have a bit of a closer look at this and report back with what they find or just set me straight in general.

Many thanks

G

PS If player examples would help, let me know and I'll gather some examples comparing with double-weight to without. All other settings for the two saves in question are identical, thereby offering me that "control group" I spoke of.

[luckymann]

Actually, here's two clear examples. The bottom in each is obviously the double-weight.

I have some other thoughts on this whole process, but will hold off on them for now.

G

[LansdowneSt]

Given there are modded & MLE-in-game, and ordinary versions of these guys, can you confirm that both are being imported from the same /stats folder and the same odb therein? Both OOTP 26, correct? Neither or one only or both with the MLE flag checked in the game options? Just clarifying as the examples are both NeL'ers so there are those additional variables at play. Thanks, G.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Given there are modded & MLE-in-game, and ordinary versions of these guys, can you confirm that both are being imported from the same /stats folder and the same odb therein? Both OOTP 26, correct? Neither or one only or both with the MLE flag checked in the game options? Just clarifying as the examples are both NeL'ers so there are those additional variables at play. Thanks, G.

Yeah, that's a concern I had as well regarding the double weight, as these are both from the InteGREATed mod. Because the application of this double weight is the only difference between the two versions. Other than the specific league environment for each, but I don't see that having the sort of drastic effect we are seeing from one to the other here.

So perhaps the way the 98/99 versions of these players work doesn't gel with this double-weight option. Or, of course, the double-weight setting could simply be on the fritz. When my work day down here is done, I'll try and find a non-modded example for our consideration. That might get us a step or two closer to an answer.

G

And sorry, to answer your question, this is v26 for both, no in-game MLE check.

[luckymann]

Sadly, I can find no suitable non-modded player to cite as an example. I hoped Dolf Luque might have been one but he pretty much disappeared without making a mark in one of them. Because we're still in the 1920s for the single-weight version, all of the modded guys are straight-up NeLers.

G

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by luckymann

Sadly, I can find no suitable non-modded player to cite as an example. I hoped Dolf Luque might have been one but he pretty much disappeared without making a mark in one of them. Because we're still in the 1920s for the single-weight version, all of the modded guys are straight-up NeLers.

G

I opened up an InteGREATed game on OOTP25 to test and then realized the addition of the recalc / double weights was an OOTP 26 feature. So you are importing players into OOTP26 from the mod built for OOTP25. Correct? If so, that's an additional wrinkle I reckon.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

I opened up an InteGREATed game on OOTP25 to test and then realized the addition of the recalc / double weights was an OOTP 26 feature. So you are importing players into OOTP26 from the mod built for OOTP25. Correct? If so, that's an additional wrinkle I reckon.

Yep, that's what I suspected might be the case, and the very reason why I have ceased applying the double-weight setting.

I certainly don't hold the game entirely responsible for this, I understand I have added a lot of external layers contributing to the issue.

Still, I do hope the devs give serious consideration for v27 and beyond to have the option to manually import players "raw" if desired, so they enter the game unmolested by external forces.

I remain convinced that all of the various fictional elements the game adds during the manual import process - fake HS/COL stats and alumnus histories - are playing havoc with how these manually imported players perform in-game. The well-documented (mainly by me) hot rookie year, followed by steep decline and / or trouble developing back to an appropriate level.

The difference in career trajectories between players imported by the game automatically and those manually imported by the human is a real killer for those of us who like to establish out of the ordinary universes in the so-called sandbox.

G

[luckymann]

Just by way of reminder, here's what I am referring to and the different ways it can manifest itself on any player when manually imported:

[luckymann]

A non-NeL example, of which there are many. It has resulted in one of the greatest LHP in MLB history coming in as a scrub and barely scratching the surface in this timeline:

[luckymann]

Not every player is adversely affected. But when opting for this process, what I (and I presume others) want is for the players to import just as they would if the game were doing it automatically.

If that diverges from the players' IRL talent then so be it, that's the roll of the dice you get using dev only and TCR rather than recalc.

But I at least want it to start from the same base point as the auto-imports when making that decision, that's all. Not from some spurious fantasy version of the player in question that the game unnecessarily creates.

Would be a massive improvement for those who delve into this dark art.

It's a legitimate issue and I hope it gets a requisite amount of consideration in the next cycle.

Thanks

G

[luckymann]

The other option would be to have a direct interface with the DB built into the importation process, so you can directly choose the parameters you're after or even the players individually.

But I suspect this is by far the more complicated and convoluted option.

G

[LansdowneSt]

Are you importing them directly into the draft pool or does it happen when also importing them as Free Agents?

The feedback has been that it's designed to ensure that people don't come in sans stats when put in the draft pool - hence my question. As a feature I get it as a general rule for fictional player creation and draft class generation but it is less than ideal for historical imports. If they can just turn it off for players that have a Historical Minors ID, that might be a way to separate the intended role it plays as a feature from the unintended consequences of sending a historical player to the draft pool.

[luckymann]

Both, but it seems the spurious stat lines and histories are added in the Draft reveal process. Players manually imported as FA don't have the fake stuff added from the look of it.

I'm going to test to confirm this, but I actually suspect the process is based on game type, rather than player type.

The whole process of players entering the game - either automatically or manually - needs a rethink. In feeder setups, players come into the COL level already with a bogus alma mater.

But, for now, at least, getting this fixed in my sole focus.

Back in a bit with some test results. Hope all this is worth it.

G

[luckymann]

OK, first I created a new historical league starting in 2013. Career mode, no minors, all else at default except 100% scouting with 1-100 / 20-80 ratings for granularity.

I deleted all extant players when the league was created and then imported 1500 historical MLB players as FA to replace them. Ran a 50-round FA Draft to repopulate the clubs.

Unselected auto-import historical rookies and imported 312 players manually ahead of the Rookie Draft reveal. Played 2013 season. Conducted the 8-round Draft in November as per the default settings.

It is in the process of the Draft reveal that these issues first appear, and I was wrong - the game type has nothing to do with it. As a player "officially" becomes part of the Draft on reveal day, the game allots him a bogus alma mater and fictional HS or COL stat line.

I did another Draft in 2014 (same thing again) then turned them off and played the save thru the 2017 season to see what happens with the development of these guys.

As much as I wish it were otherwise, the results are utterly inconclusive. Some sort of bias is trying to make me see a consistent downward pressure on the ratings of the guys with the fake lines, but if it is there, it is certainly more moderate than what I am seeing in my saves.

I'll take a break and repeat this on a custom fictional save using the same player pool and methodology.

G

[LansdowneSt]

So, if I map this out... 10 players manually imported into the draft class on an in-game Sunday have no fake lines. Same on Monday - still no lines appearing. Tuesday is the draft reveal. End of day, they have fake HS & COL stat lines. Wednesday comes. Manually import 5 more historical players into the draft. Thursday comes... no fake lines for these five? Draft on Friday. Is it still split as 10 with fake and 5 without come Saturday?

If that's the case, the draft reveal and not the placement of the player into the amateur draft pool or the draft itself that is the trigger for generating the fake stats but the draft reveal. So that's when the code triggers to do it. Clearly, it is regarded a feature for the game, so it has some purpose. The real players it helps, I think, are those in the draft class for the current MLB year Standard game. So, come May when Lukas is creating real players with real Historical Minors ID and adding them to the database and game for the 2026 June draft, the game is well served by these fake lines. The fake lines on the MLB players out there that one elects to put in the draft manually are just an unintended consequence. Same with the historical minor league players since you can use the minor league db to manually import players, but let's focus on the MLB ones as it's an easier fix.

As a solution, the game could put a check such that IF there is a Lahman field populated (so he made the MLB and is the game is pulling from that Master.csv file) THEN do not create the fake lines. I'd initially thought the presence of the Historical Minors ID should control but I think that would interfere with the current year draft class. That'd be a 90% solution, I think and better than nothing. Certainly seems easy as a construct for them to consider.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

So, if I map this out... 10 players manually imported into the draft class on an in-game Sunday have no fake lines. Same on Monday - still no lines appearing. Tuesday is the draft reveal. End of day, they have fake HS & COL stat lines. Wednesday comes. Manually import 5 more historical players into the draft. Thursday comes... no fake lines for these five? Draft on Friday. Is it still split as 10 with fake and 5 without come Saturday?

If that's the case, the draft reveal and not the placement of the player into the amateur draft pool or the draft itself that is the trigger for generating the fake stats but the draft reveal. So that's when the code triggers to do it. Clearly, it is regarded a feature for the game, so it has some purpose. The real players it helps, I think, are those in the draft class for the current MLB year Standard game. So, come May when Lukas is creating real players with real Historical Minors ID and adding them to the database and game for the 2026 June draft, the game is well served by these fake lines. The fake lines on the MLB players out there that one elects to put in the draft manually are just an unintended consequence. Same with the historical minor league players since you can use the minor league db to manually import players, but let's focus on the MLB ones as it's an easier fix.

As a solution, the game could put a check such that IF there is a Lahman field populated (so he made the MLB and is the game is pulling from that Master.csv file) THEN do not create the fake lines. I'd initially thought the presence of the Historical Minors ID should control but I think that would interfere with the current year draft class. That'd be a 90% solution, I think and better than nothing. Certainly seems easy as a construct for them to consider.

Yep, that's exactly what I am seeing, it all happens in the Draft Reveal. I understand it might have some purpose (although, having never played a Standard Game, I see these bogus lines only in the problematic context of adding fake stuff to real players with real historical stats). I'd just like the option to override it.

The other possibility is that it is tied in with the old feature where one could select the % of players in the Draft being sourced from HS, JoCo, and COL. That option seems to have been removed, but perhaps this is a relic from it.

G

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by luckymann

Yep, that's exactly what I am seeing, it all happens in the Draft Reveal. I understand it might have some purpose (although, having never played a Standard Game, I see these bogus lines only in the problematic context of adding fake stuff to real players with real historical stats). I'd just like the option to override it.

The other possibility is that it is tied in with the old feature where one could select the % of players in the Draft being sourced from HS, JoCo, and COL. That option seems to have been removed, but perhaps this is a relic from it.

G

I think, for MLB'ers, it should default to override and not create the fake stat lines on Draft Day. So many toggles everywhere already. I think it is an unintended consequence for the MLB'ers and should be stopped if the incoming player has a Lahman ID field populated. Maybe a toggle is no more coding work... it checks the toggle instead of the db field being populated... but so, so, so many toggles...

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

I think, for MLB'ers, it should default to override and not create the fake stat lines on Draft Day. So many toggles everywhere already. I think it is an unintended consequence for the MLB'ers and should be stopped if the incoming player has a Lahman ID field populated. Maybe a toggle is no more coding work... it checks the toggle instead of the db field being populated... but so, so, so many toggles...

Works for me.

G

[luckymann]

OK, wanting to also try and get to the bottom of the ratings drop-offs I am seeing, I'm going to run a second test using the InteGREATed mod DB and the 212 NeLers comprising it, along with the same group of MLBers I used in Test 1.

Same process as Historical 1, except I imported the initial FA with double weight applied. The two subsequent Draft pools I did not apply double weight.

Same deal with the fake stat adds and alma mater affiliation at the Draft reveal.

Again played thru end 2017.

If anything, even MORE inconclusive. No wonder I'm not a scientist...

The only conclusion I have come to is that I must have been incredibly unlucky or done something wrong in setting up the Gulf League save that prompted all of this in the first place, and will be attempting a do-over with it from scratch, post-haste.

I'll still do the fictional league test if for no other reason than my own enlightenment and erudition.

I have attached the spreadsheet with the FA ratings on import and all players at end 2017. I have filtered out the pitchers, as I somehow missed including their initial ratings, but they are there if you select them. The ratings in blue are the end-2017 ones.

I'm off for a nap, this has been traumatic for my old brain.

G

[luckymann]

By now I have no idea what I am doing. I imported the original FA with no double weight applied and, once again, cannot discern any clear pattern.

I've attached the spreadsheet, with the final end 2017 ratings the ones in purple and pitchers included this time.

G