Goalie Usage Still Again

[Curve Ball Dave]

Well, here we go again.

It's Feb 1. in my league. Leaving aside the fact that my 5 star best in the league goalie doesn't play anywhere near is ability as his numbers are league average at best-probably below, he's still better than the other guy by every possible metric and certainly by ratings. Guess who my alleged great head coach (who has led us to a .500 record with the best roster in the league) is giving most of the starts to lately? Yep, uh huh....the other guy. The other guy started 8 of 13 games in January.

My star goalie has played in 33 games. The other guy has played in 27. My star goalie is two games over .500 (a joke if you ask me), the other guy is two games under .500.

I'm just the GM, I can't control who plays how much. But geez, how many versions of this game does it take to get the goalie usage logic somewhat close to realistic?

[northjersey]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Well, here we go again.

It's Feb 1. in my league. Leaving aside the fact that my 5 star best in the league goalie doesn't play anywhere near is ability as his numbers are league average at best-probably below, he's still better than the other guy by every possible metric and certainly by ratings. Guess who my alleged great head coach (who has led us to a .500 record with the best roster in the league) is giving most of the starts to lately? Yep, uh huh....the other guy. The other guy started 8 of 13 games in January.

My star goalie has played in 33 games. The other guy has played in 27. My star goalie is two games over .500 (a joke if you ask me), the other guy is two games under .500.

I'm just the GM, I can't control who plays how much. But geez, how many versions of this game does it take to get the goalie usage logic somewhat close to realistic?

it stinks that the goalie usage still appears (are you on v12, v11, or something else?). if you are on v11 or v12 you can try enabling the option to set your lineup (even in gm-only mode) and you can set your starting goalie

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by northjersey

it stinks that the goalie usage still appears (are you on v12, v11, or something else?). if you are on v11 or v12 you can try enabling the option to set your lineup (even in gm-only mode) and you can set your starting goalie

I'm on v12. I thought this sort of thing and some others would have been fixed by now.

[Goalie39]

This doesn't bother me:

My star goalie has played in 33 games. The other guy has played in 27. My star goalie is two games over .500 (a joke if you ask me), the other guy is two games under .500.

In modern hockey, it's rare to see teams relying on a single goalie for 75% of the games. A more typical split is closer to 60/40, which would mean around 36 starts for your number one goaltender. This distribution might be influenced by AI handling scheduling—such as managing back-to-back games—or simply because the backup goalie is performing well.

Hockey is a complex sport.

A goaltender’s performance is often a reflection of the team in front of them. If the team is playing just slightly above .500 hockey, that could explain why the goalie’s stats aren’t outstanding. There could be many contributing factors. One stat I often look at when evaluating goaltending is the plus/minus rating of the defensemen. If a couple of defensemen have poor +/- ratings, it could indicate defensive breakdowns that are negatively impacting the goalie’s performance.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Goalie39

In modern hockey, it's rare to see teams relying on a single goalie for 75% of the games. A more typical split is closer to 60/40, which would mean around 36 starts for your number one goaltender. This distribution might be influenced by AI handling scheduling—such as managing back-to-back games—or simply because the backup goalie is performing well.

The other guy is awful. If we win with him in the goal it's because we fortunately outscored the opposition, not because of anything he did. If the AI starts the other guy because it's the second game of a back to back that's fine. Giving the other guy the majority of the starts in a month is another.

A goaltender’s performance is often a reflection of the team in front of them. If the team is playing just slightly above .500 hockey, that could explain why the goalie’s stats aren’t outstanding. There could be many contributing factors. One stat I often look at when evaluating goaltending is the plus/minus rating of the defensemen. If a couple of defensemen have poor +/- ratings, it could indicate defensive breakdowns that are negatively impacting the goalie’s performance.

True, but despite having 5 and 4 star defensemen we're still only slightly better than middle of the pack in terms of shots allowed per game. My five star goalie stops....some of those shots. The other guy is worse.

The fact that my team doesn't perform anywhere close to it's ability (as if ratings are mere suggestions that are sometimes followed) is one issue, the fact that this game still can't get goalie usage correct is another. In what ratoinal world does a clearly inferior goalie by every possible metric start the majority of the games? The goalie usage issue has come in version after version after version.

(The league I'm playing is an import from '11. The team had a different coach but the same roster in that version. We only won a game if by chance the other team didn't show up for the game because the bus broke down on the way.

[treestreetgaming]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

The other guy is awful. If we win with him in the goal it's because we fortunately outscored the opposition, not because of anything he did. If the AI starts the other guy because it's the second game of a back to back that's fine. Giving the other guy the majority of the starts in a month is another.



True, but despite having 5 and 4 star defensemen we're still only slightly better than middle of the pack in terms of shots allowed per game. My five star goalie stops....some of those shots. The other guy is worse.

The fact that my team doesn't perform anywhere close to it's ability (as if ratings are mere suggestions that are sometimes followed) is one issue, the fact that this game still can't get goalie usage correct is another. In what ratoinal world does a clearly inferior goalie by every possible metric start the majority of the games? The goalie usage issue has come in version after version after version.

The star system is more of a recommendation than a hard and fast rule of how a player performs. There is so much that goes into the game sim that goaltending is probably no t the only problem as well as defense probably isn't the only problem either. Its probably a combination of things such as chemistry, tactics used, and actual number ratings of players abilities.

[Bluenoser]

Just a quick check, but last season #1 goalies were averaging over 50 starts a season, with some close to 60.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by treestreetgaming

The star system is more of a recommendation than a hard and fast rule of how a player performs. There is so much that goes into the game sim that goaltending is probably no t the only problem as well as defense probably isn't the only problem either. Its probably a combination of things such as chemistry, tactics used, and actual number ratings of players abilities.

I get all of that. Team harmony was a big issue so I made some transactions to get rid of the trouble makers and harmony improved. I can accept a team underachieving. I play OOTP and I had my team go from WS champs to 100 losses the next season with pretty much the same team and I've been rebuilding ever since. So underperformance I understand, totally illogical and unrealistic goalie usage after all of these versions is beyond frustrating.

[Goalie39]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Just a quick check, but last season #1 goalies were averaging over 50 starts a season, with some close to 60.

Is that based off of an 82 game season? This example is a 60 game season.

50 starts in a 82 game season is 60%. Now 60 starts seems high, as that's 73%.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Goalie39

Is that based off of an 82 game season? This example is a 60 game season.

50 starts in a 82 game season is 60%. Now 60 starts seems high, as that's 73%.

It's last years stats, so yes, it's an 82 game season.

I don't see where it was mentioned as a 60 game season.

[Bluenoser]

I only looked at last season also, so very small sample size.

[Goalie39]

I just added up the 2 starts, 33 plus 27. You are right, i guess if there was a 3rd goalie then it could be more games, but given what was provided it sounds like a 60 game schedule.

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

It's last years stats, so yes, it's an 82 game season.

I don't see where it was mentioned as a 60 game season.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Goalie39

I just added up the 2 starts, 33 plus 27. You are right, i guess if there was a 3rd goalie then it could be more games, but given what was provided it sounds like a 60 game schedule.

I noted that it was only Feb 1 and the other guy started the majority of the games in January. At this rate my #1 goalie will start 45 games in the 82 game season. More likely this number will be even less the way the AI handles goalies usage.

[jcard]

Are people gaslighting the OP? The mitigating factors mentioned here might expand the deviation in observed from expected, but not account for a sign change (so to speak).

[Curve Ball Dave]

Let's be clear, I can begrudgingly accept the underperformance of my players and that particularly with my goalie his ratings aren't worth the electrons it took to make them appear on the screen for as good as he's performing (still better than the other guy).

The issue is why an inferior goalie who is worse than the #1 in every possible metric starts as often as he does including the majority of the games in a month?

Just leave it at that. Explain the goalie usage logic or lack thereof.

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Let's be clear, I can begrudgingly accept the underperformance of my players and that particularly with my goalie his ratings aren't worth the electrons it took to make them appear on the screen for as good as he's performing (still better than the other guy).

The issue is why an inferior goalie who is worse than the #1 in every possible metric starts as often as he does including the majority of the games in a month?

Just leave it at that. Explain the goalie usage logic or lack thereof.

Dave, just asking, are you using goalie starts or is that option not working for you?

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Adam B

Dave, just asking, are you using goalie starts or is that option not working for you?

The goalie start settings are set the so best goalie should start most of the time and the backup hardly ever. The AI can't change that.

But here we are with the other guy getting the majority of the starts in the most recent month.

I'll reiterate, this happens in version after version after version. I'm at a loss.

[Curve Ball Dave]

This is the last thing I'll say until one of the devs possibly chimes in.

I had a lot of trepidation about buying this version. I knew there were a lot of things that I could do in OOTP that I can't do in FHM.

But I was hoping maybe this time around they got it right when it came to goalies. Rather than ask "did you this?" or "did you that?" etc, how about the AI simply recognizes who is clearly the better goalie and start him at a frequency we find in the modern NHL? Is that too much to ask?

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

The goalie start settings are set the so best goalie should start most of the time and the backup hardly ever. The AI can't change that.

But here we are with the other guy getting the majority of the starts in the most recent month.

I'll reiterate, this happens in version after version after version. I'm at a loss.

You have it locked then so your coach can't change it and goalie setting turned on then? Ok.

Did you manually set any of the starts (only Goalie Start settings, right click on the dates and change AI to starter)? I'm pretty sure that was enabled in GM only mode.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Adam B

Did you manually set any of the starts (only Goalie Start settings, right click on the dates and change AI to starter)? I'm pretty sure that was enabled in GM only mode.

I haven't looked at that. Of course, if the AI usage was remotely close to realistic I wouldn't have to jump through all of these hoops just get the right goalie to start.