"thebadguy" Deserves a free upgrade.. - Page 2

Jim Trunzo · 12-13-2003, 09:04 PM

I didn't think that I would make anymore comments on this matter but I feel I must. To "The Bad Guy", thank you for your last reply. I simply want to say that I do NOT think you are lying, any more than you think Tom is . . .you statement ". . . as he remembers it . . ." is accurate in both his case and yours. I am offering a public apology for all you have been through; I wish that I could offer you a free game as well. However, I can't, anymore than you can buy the game in your mind. You are right - we both lose. It's a shame that it has come to this. I wish you the best and I hope your love of boxing isn't diminished by what appears to be a misunderstanding and some poor communications on our parts. We continue to make some mistakes; however, we continue to learn from them and all we can promise is that we will be much more careful about wording and possible confusion in the future. I will ask Andreas to remove this thread - not because of any problems with The Bad Guys right to express his view of the incident but because I simply don't see that there is anything left to say on either side. If there needs to be more communication, it should be done in private and not on a public board that wishes to read about game suggestions, advice, fixes, etc. My apologies to all who have been subjected to this.

Jim Trunzo

almo · 12-13-2003, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by meade95
Almo,

Don't know which RockStar bands you listen too...but the tail Clinton was getting was far from "rockstar quality".

And, Almo, read one (that is only 1 post) above mine reply....That person says exactly that he plans to buy the game now (within 10 days even) because of how "thebadguy" complained and how I felt about his complaint.

As for the facts (or rhetoric as you call it) about what has helped make this country great (freedom of choices)....it's sad that some live in such a factless world and don't know they don't know they don't know. (can you follow, probably not).

I respect the fact that if you have an opinion, and you can state it. I can also respect that your last paragraph was unintelligible. Explain..are you calling me......you know what dont explain, I dont care...

This is not a political forum.....this is for a boxing game. You should try and go to another forum so that you can talk more politics.

Oh well...Im backing down...you win Meade...you dont have to buy the game..your choice!......Me Im having fun with it..

The last thing I will say is that if I went around and started boycotting every business for any little situation, I would be living Amish style!!

meade95 · 12-13-2003, 09:12 PM

Almo,

Wish you the best. Don't take any of my posts wrong.

RANGER11JP · 12-13-2003, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebadguy
Hey Jim, I am quite sure that Tom is telling the truth... as he remembers it. At no time was there EVER a clear message on this board from you or anyone else that the offer was only good for people who bought the game at a certain price (at least not prior to the release). Once again, the offer was on the website, the offer was made by Tom (misunderstandings may apply), and the offer was made by Andreas. Again, "Anyone who purchased TF2001 between November 2002 and the release of the new game will get get TBCB for FREE!!!" Thats directly from Andreas. I am not trying to scare anyone into doing anything. This conversation was kept private up until you folks decided to not honor what you said you would do. This isn't even about business ethics or customer relations anymore to you guys. This is now about who wins and who loses. I guess we both do. I dont get the game that is rightfully mine, and you lose some customers. Do you think I am lying about all of this? That Im trying to scam you guys? There may have been some misunderstandings but that isn't my fault. You guys should have been more clear about things. You weren't at all. I could just buy the game at regular price or take the deal that Andreas offered me, but like you guys, its a matter of principle now.

Well. when you have your hand out and your ears and mind closed, I guess it it hard to understand. It seems that just about everyone else understood this. But someone always has to blur the interpertation. Just as people claim that President George W. Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court when in reality they only ruled that the laws which had already duely elected him were followed as written. This game is not YET big enough to support a welfare program. I paid my money over a year ago and as I remember the offer, I bought the NEW game. It was the old game I and everyone else got for free. Over a year ago. Not counting interest. And I was happy to do it in good faith.
So stop your crying. Buy the game or not. Stop wasting everyone's time. Get a job, get a life, get a clue.
Thank you.

JP

GDE · 12-13-2003, 10:02 PM

Meade95

The customer is rarely right. I have 10 years of differing retail experience. It was a VERY rare occasion that the custome was right during any dispute. Most of the time they don't have a clue as to what they are purchasing.

I don't remember saying anything bad about capitalism as you infer during your response. However, I once again will state that the customer is rarely right.

Almo,

I don't understand your point on Bush(as in how it applies). He's my/our President, but I'd much rather have anyone else(thebadguy included) instead of Bush.

almo · 12-13-2003, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GDE
Meade95

Almo,

I don't understand your point on Bush(as in how it applies). He's my/our President, but I'd much rather have anyone else(thebadguy included) instead of Bush.

never said anything bout bush.....did say somthing about rush limbaugh

in fact i agree with you on bush

PulpFact · 12-13-2003, 10:15 PM

meade95 · 12-13-2003, 10:44 PM

GDE...You say "The customer is rarely right. I have 10 years of differing retail experience..

10 years hey...Well, our Country (Speaking of USA) has over 200 years of proving your point wrong!

Over the last 200 years America has built up the greatest nation known to man based on the principle that when given freedom to make choices....the consumer more often then not makes the "right" choice.

History has proven this so in the case of the United States.

Get a clue, the fact that you are in retail...and every so often you have customer with a problem....and he/she might be wrong...WELL take note of the other thousands that come through and never have a problem at all and make the right decesions. Give me a break, to act like most customers that come through your retail shop end up with some sort of problem and then at the end of "said" problems turn out to be on in the "wrong"...

Nope, history proves this logic false.

PulpFact · 12-13-2003, 11:03 PM

mh2365 · 12-13-2003, 11:38 PM

All I've got to say on this subject is please read all of badguys posts to date and you will get the feel of his character. He has not offered one shred of proof that he was promised a new game. It's all he said, she said. If the the give him a game,then what stops the next guy from pulling the same stunt. If he offered even one shred of proof then I am positive he would get a free game. Anyone who deosn't buy this game because of badguy needs to read his previous posts on all subjects. If you are of the same breed as him then please don't enjoy this incredible game.

I was critical about the game ever coming out but it is quite simply the best boxing game on the market and is the most bug free sports text sim ever released. It's not bug free but there are no show stoppers. Solesimic is the only one who releases a "just as good" first edition. I've tried to hold my tongue, but just the fact that eric and badguy are an "old married couple" should be enough to disregard every thing he says

doors11 · 12-13-2003, 11:52 PM

Being a small business Owner myself for over 25 years.I know that the customer tries to rip me off all the time.I take care of my
customers well,but have never allowed them to rip me off.

I'm glad Jim and Tom are sticking to their guns.If Thebadguy gets a free game because he understood an offer wrong,then all customers can understand things wrong and we would be giving everything away for free all the Time.

I bought TB2001 and couldn't wait to get the new game.As soon as it came out I fought one fight and Paid my money like everyone who liked the game.

If anyone thinks that paying 9.95 or even 19.95 to receive a 34.95
product for free, is not really thinking.They are just seeing if they can con something.

This makes me mad that people try these things. But people who stand up for the real thing, makes me proud.

Thank you Jim and Tom.

Thebadguy either pay the money or move on.This forum is for questions about the game.Anyone who feels they should not buy the game because of his con job, should join him.

But it is your loss as this is one real fun game.

I'm sorry for my pissed off emotions, but i can't believe someone really thinks they should receive a free 34.95 product for 9.95.
Even more someone who makes threats not to buy it if a free copy isn't given away.

Rob Fenix · 12-13-2003, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by meade95
GDE...You say "The customer is rarely right. I have 10 years of differing retail experience..

10 years hey...Well, our Country (Speaking of USA) has over 200 years of proving your point wrong!

I tend to agree with GDE on this one. Rather than cite my retail experience and tell you how I once lived in the Wal-Mart sporting goods section for 8 months to better observe consumer habits here in the good ole USA

, allow me to instead offer you my politically corrected version of "The customer is always right."

"The customer is a mindless idiot convinced that they alone have the power to keep the world spinning, however if you don't kiss his/her posterior and convince them that your life's goal is to help them spend there money in a satisfying and fulfilling maner...you don't get paid, you don't eat, you miss your rent/mortgage, your car gets repo-ed, your spouse/significant other leaves you..."

Rob Fenix · 12-14-2003, 12:07 AM

On another note...someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the situation could have been handled "behind the scenes". Please. Indeed the situation could have been handled through private email exchanges, but be real. This is the internet. Anything that can be posted on a message forum, will be posted on a message forum. If the guy managed to convince the Trunzo's to fork over a free game, it would likely find its way into the public spotlight here on the forums. That alone would spawn even more attempts at extortionist-type activities where the customer "flexes his/her muscle" because they alone are right, and as retailers the Trunzo's and OOTP Developements must respect that.

Meade95 - Please do not read my comments and pre-qualify me as an America bashing moron. On the contrary, I'm born and raised in Ohio..."The Heart of it All" (according to our license plates). I love living in a democracy. I love this country. I'm also a realist. "The customer is always right" is a theory abused everywhere from sea to shining sea, be it at the local mom'n'pops market or the nearest hospital. Anywhere an exchange of goods/services occurs, someone is always there to abuse the system. Period.

yabanci · 12-14-2003, 12:21 AM

deleted.

GDE · 12-14-2003, 12:24 AM

Meade95

I love capitalism. I live in the USA.

However, I love the description that Rob Fenix posted about the customer being right.

Once again Meade. I love capitalism. I live in the USA. However we will always disagree about our views on the customer and his being "right"

meade95 · 12-14-2003, 12:25 AM

Rob Fenix, agree with some of what you say....but what you managed to try and do was creat a "strawman's" argument (that being create an argument no one ever advocated and then tear it down).

That being when you posted.....

...."Meade95 - Please do not read my comments and pre-qualify me as an America bashing moron. On the contrary, I'm born and raised in Ohio..."The Heart of it All" (according to our license plates). I love living in a democracy. I love this country. I'm also a realist. "The customer is always right" is a theory abused everywhere from sea to shining sea"

No one on here (and not me for sure) ever advocated any position that the "customer is always right"....What I did say is more often then not consumers (people) make the right decesions when given the freedom to decide issues for themselves. And this is 100% true!.....and quite the oppostie of the notion "the customer is aways right".....No one said such a thing and thus your argument against it.....is well, foolish.

And like I said I have emailed both Tom and Jim for years. I know things can be done via email with them.....that being said, if an offer in an email was made ....(and maybe Tom didn't know he was agreeing to such....but still agreed)....then that offer should be kept.

It is silly to think otherwise. And, let me also say from past experience ...going back to Lance Haffner games.....if OOTP wasn't involved....the game would have been set out to "thebadguy" in a second! .....because of the miscommunication...

(lets just say from "history", I know this to be true).

meade95 · 12-14-2003, 12:28 AM

GDE,

Just for the record, you don't love capitalism.....I have a great notion you don't even know exactly how Government and capitalism work to be honest.

The fact that you have such a dislike for George W. Bush is a testament to this.

meade95 · 12-14-2003, 12:32 AM

Yabanci,

Very nice thing of you to do. Totally selfless and to be admired.

GDE · 12-14-2003, 12:33 AM

I guess I'm a bad American because I don't support an idiot with half a brain.

I love capitalism. I don't like Enron. I don't like Martha Stewart. I don't like Haliburton ripping $61 million off the government.

I don't like the VP's connection to Haliburton. I don't like our governments decision to go it alone in Iraq. I do support out soldiers.

I truly hope whoever is the Democrat nominee in 04 not only gets more of the poplular vote than Bush does, I hope he gets more Electoral college votes than Bush does.

Mark42661 · 12-14-2003, 12:38 AM

Cheers to you Yabanci. That's a very very thoughtful offer and...as meade95 said...very admirable. The last part of what you said kind of puts things into perspective too.

12-13-2003, 10:15 PM	#27
PulpFact Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 32	Last edited by PulpFact; 11-11-2012 at 10:41 AM.

12-13-2003, 11:03 PM	#29
PulpFact Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 32	Last edited by PulpFact; 11-11-2012 at 10:40 AM.

12-14-2003, 12:21 AM	#34
yabanci Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 304	deleted. Last edited by yabanci; 12-20-2003 at 04:21 AM.

12-14-2003, 12:38 AM	#40
Mark42661 All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Home of the Kansas City Chiefs! Posts: 1,080	Cheers to you Yabanci. That's a very very thoughtful offer and...as meade95 said...very admirable. The last part of what you said kind of puts things into perspective too. __________________ A Man of the World Site dedicated to Sailor Tom Sharkey

12-13-2003, 09:04 PM	#21
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 739	I didn't think that I would make anymore comments on this matter but I feel I must. To "The Bad Guy", thank you for your last reply. I simply want to say that I do NOT think you are lying, any more than you think Tom is . . .you statement ". . . as he remembers it . . ." is accurate in both his case and yours. I am offering a public apology for all you have been through; I wish that I could offer you a free game as well. However, I can't, anymore than you can buy the game in your mind. You are right - we both lose. It's a shame that it has come to this. I wish you the best and I hope your love of boxing isn't diminished by what appears to be a misunderstanding and some poor communications on our parts. We continue to make some mistakes; however, we continue to learn from them and all we can promise is that we will be much more careful about wording and possible confusion in the future. I will ask Andreas to remove this thread - not because of any problems with The Bad Guys right to express his view of the incident but because I simply don't see that there is anything left to say on either side. If there needs to be more communication, it should be done in private and not on a public board that wishes to read about game suggestions, advice, fixes, etc. My apologies to all who have been subjected to this. Jim Trunzo

12-13-2003, 09:12 PM	#23
meade95 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,095	Almo, Wish you the best. Don't take any of my posts wrong.

12-13-2003, 10:02 PM	#25
GDE Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nancy,KY Posts: 193	Meade95 The customer is rarely right. I have 10 years of differing retail experience. It was a VERY rare occasion that the custome was right during any dispute. Most of the time they don't have a clue as to what they are purchasing. I don't remember saying anything bad about capitalism as you infer during your response. However, I once again will state that the customer is rarely right. Almo, I don't understand your point on Bush(as in how it applies). He's my/our President, but I'd much rather have anyone else(thebadguy included) instead of Bush.

12-13-2003, 10:44 PM	#28
meade95 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,095	GDE...You say "The customer is rarely right. I have 10 years of differing retail experience.. 10 years hey...Well, our Country (Speaking of USA) has over 200 years of proving your point wrong! Over the last 200 years America has built up the greatest nation known to man based on the principle that when given freedom to make choices....the consumer more often then not makes the "right" choice. History has proven this so in the case of the United States. Get a clue, the fact that you are in retail...and every so often you have customer with a problem....and he/she might be wrong...WELL take note of the other thousands that come through and never have a problem at all and make the right decesions. Give me a break, to act like most customers that come through your retail shop end up with some sort of problem and then at the end of "said" problems turn out to be on in the "wrong"... Nope, history proves this logic false.

12-13-2003, 11:38 PM	#30
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	All I've got to say on this subject is please read all of badguys posts to date and you will get the feel of his character. He has not offered one shred of proof that he was promised a new game. It's all he said, she said. If the the give him a game,then what stops the next guy from pulling the same stunt. If he offered even one shred of proof then I am positive he would get a free game. Anyone who deosn't buy this game because of badguy needs to read his previous posts on all subjects. If you are of the same breed as him then please don't enjoy this incredible game. I was critical about the game ever coming out but it is quite simply the best boxing game on the market and is the most bug free sports text sim ever released. It's not bug free but there are no show stoppers. Solesimic is the only one who releases a "just as good" first edition. I've tried to hold my tongue, but just the fact that eric and badguy are an "old married couple" should be enough to disregard every thing he says

12-13-2003, 11:52 PM	#31
doors11 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Creswell Posts: 650	Being a small business Owner myself for over 25 years.I know that the customer tries to rip me off all the time.I take care of my customers well,but have never allowed them to rip me off. I'm glad Jim and Tom are sticking to their guns.If Thebadguy gets a free game because he understood an offer wrong,then all customers can understand things wrong and we would be giving everything away for free all the Time. I bought TB2001 and couldn't wait to get the new game.As soon as it came out I fought one fight and Paid my money like everyone who liked the game. If anyone thinks that paying 9.95 or even 19.95 to receive a 34.95 product for free, is not really thinking.They are just seeing if they can con something. This makes me mad that people try these things. But people who stand up for the real thing, makes me proud. Thank you Jim and Tom. Thebadguy either pay the money or move on.This forum is for questions about the game.Anyone who feels they should not buy the game because of his con job, should join him. But it is your loss as this is one real fun game. I'm sorry for my pissed off emotions, but i can't believe someone really thinks they should receive a free 34.95 product for 9.95. Even more someone who makes threats not to buy it if a free copy isn't given away.

12-14-2003, 12:07 AM	#33
Rob Fenix Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chillicothe, OH Posts: 47	On another note...someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the situation could have been handled "behind the scenes". Please. Indeed the situation could have been handled through private email exchanges, but be real. This is the internet. Anything that can be posted on a message forum, will be posted on a message forum. If the guy managed to convince the Trunzo's to fork over a free game, it would likely find its way into the public spotlight here on the forums. That alone would spawn even more attempts at extortionist-type activities where the customer "flexes his/her muscle" because they alone are right, and as retailers the Trunzo's and OOTP Developements must respect that. Meade95 - Please do not read my comments and pre-qualify me as an America bashing moron. On the contrary, I'm born and raised in Ohio..."The Heart of it All" (according to our license plates). I love living in a democracy. I love this country. I'm also a realist. "The customer is always right" is a theory abused everywhere from sea to shining sea, be it at the local mom'n'pops market or the nearest hospital. Anywhere an exchange of goods/services occurs, someone is always there to abuse the system. Period.

12-14-2003, 12:24 AM	#35
GDE Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nancy,KY Posts: 193	Meade95 I love capitalism. I live in the USA. However, I love the description that Rob Fenix posted about the customer being right. Once again Meade. I love capitalism. I live in the USA. However we will always disagree about our views on the customer and his being "right"

12-14-2003, 12:25 AM	#36
meade95 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,095	Rob Fenix, agree with some of what you say....but what you managed to try and do was creat a "strawman's" argument (that being create an argument no one ever advocated and then tear it down). That being when you posted..... ...."Meade95 - Please do not read my comments and pre-qualify me as an America bashing moron. On the contrary, I'm born and raised in Ohio..."The Heart of it All" (according to our license plates). I love living in a democracy. I love this country. I'm also a realist. "The customer is always right" is a theory abused everywhere from sea to shining sea" No one on here (and not me for sure) ever advocated any position that the "customer is always right"....What I did say is more often then not consumers (people) make the right decesions when given the freedom to decide issues for themselves. And this is 100% true!.....and quite the oppostie of the notion "the customer is aways right".....No one said such a thing and thus your argument against it.....is well, foolish. And like I said I have emailed both Tom and Jim for years. I know things can be done via email with them.....that being said, if an offer in an email was made ....(and maybe Tom didn't know he was agreeing to such....but still agreed)....then that offer should be kept. It is silly to think otherwise. And, let me also say from past experience ...going back to Lance Haffner games.....if OOTP wasn't involved....the game would have been set out to "thebadguy" in a second! .....because of the miscommunication... (lets just say from "history", I know this to be true).

12-14-2003, 12:28 AM	#37
meade95 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,095	GDE, Just for the record, you don't love capitalism.....I have a great notion you don't even know exactly how Government and capitalism work to be honest. The fact that you have such a dislike for George W. Bush is a testament to this.

12-14-2003, 12:32 AM	#38
meade95 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,095	Yabanci, Very nice thing of you to do. Totally selfless and to be admired.

12-14-2003, 12:33 AM	#39
GDE Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Nancy,KY Posts: 193	I guess I'm a bad American because I don't support an idiot with half a brain. I love capitalism. I don't like Enron. I don't like Martha Stewart. I don't like Haliburton ripping $61 million off the government. I don't like the VP's connection to Haliburton. I don't like our governments decision to go it alone in Iraq. I do support out soldiers. I truly hope whoever is the Democrat nominee in 04 not only gets more of the poplular vote than Bush does, I hope he gets more Electoral college votes than Bush does.