Not good enough!!!

wiggans · 12-12-2003, 05:34 PM

I am a real big sports fan. I am 48 years old, and have been playing sports sims for ever... for ever!!! I bought the original Title Bout almost 20 years ago, from Avalon Hill, It is still one of the greatest games ever . I have been a loyal supporter of the Trunzo's for years. I have bought every game they have ever produced. I have purchesed almost every sporting sim ever. I work in sports, and have for the the last 20 years.. I, like the rest of you on this board waited for ever for this game to come out. I Checked every day, than every week, than every month, than every couple of months. Near the deadlineI stayed on my computer for days, waiting for updates. I bought the game the first minute I could..... It is poor.... Cosmeticlly it is beautifull, but who cares. I could take another 300 words and explain in detail how many things upset me about this effort, but I won't. I appreciate how hard the Trunzo's have worked.. How mutch time they have taken out of their personel lives... blah, blah, blah. If you are really a game player, you know how bad this is, It isn't that they didn't have enogh time. I'm not going to wait for patch A, patch B or patch C. I quit. Please Let's be honest. Are you really satisfied?

David Myers · 12-12-2003, 05:41 PM

With the game play? Yes.

Some minor things need to be addressed, but these have to do with managing the database. Not with staging the bouts.

Sure, it would be nice if the game "randomized" referees, judges, venues, and dates in the autoscheduler. But these are followup wishes, which do not detract from the autoscheduler's elegance and convenience.

More boxers are included than I dreamed--over 3,000! And adding boxers is even easier than in Title Fight.

Wiggans, without some specifics it is hard to know what to do with your complaint. It is too global and generalized to help the developers in their efforts to improve a good game even further.

Jim Trunzo · 12-12-2003, 06:20 PM

Sigh . . . we knew it would come. Sir (Wiggans), I appreciate your kind words about the work that went into it, etc. which makes it all the more disheartening that we failed to meet your expectations. As Mr. Myers stated, there are improvements that can and will be made, but for the life of me, I don't know what else we can do, besides add the much desired role-playing elements. The results are better than ever, the versatility of the modules . . . well there's no sense in my extolling virtues of the game (it's like a parent doting over a child). If you would care to elaborate about where the game has failed as a simulation, I would be pleased to discuss it on the boards or via private Emails or wherever. Perhaps we simply have missed out on a concept that you had hoped would be there. We basically told everyone what was going to be in the game. However, anything that can improve the product is worth hearing about and attempting to implement. I am truly sorry that we have even left one fan down, even though we have enjoyed immensely the overall response to the product.

Jim Trunzo

rastak · 12-12-2003, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wiggans
I am a real big sports fan. I am 48 years old, and have been playing sports sims for ever... for ever!!! I bought the original Title Bout almost 20 years ago, from Avalon Hill, It is still one of the greatest games ever . I have been a loyal supporter of the Trunzo's for years. I have bought every game they have ever produced. I have purchesed almost every sporting sim ever. I work in sports, and have for the the last 20 years.. I, like the rest of you on this board waited for ever for this game to come out. I Checked every day, than every week, than every month, than every couple of months. Near the deadlineI stayed on my computer for days, waiting for updates. I bought the game the first minute I could..... It is poor.... Cosmeticlly it is beautifull, but who cares. I could take another 300 words and explain in detail how many things upset me about this effort, but I won't. I appreciate how hard the Trunzo's have worked.. How mutch time they have taken out of their personel lives... blah, blah, blah. If you are really a game player, you know how bad this is, It isn't that they didn't have enogh time. I'm not going to wait for patch A, patch B or patch C. I quit. Please Let's be honest. Are you really satisfied?

Well Wiggans, I'm 41 and I like it....one man's garbage is another man's treasure.

Dr.K · 12-12-2003, 07:04 PM

I'm 36 and have played Avalon Hills version to this. I've got to say I'm impressed!! The sheer numbers of boxers has me drooling about matchups. The sims seem great to me so far with the one's I've played. A great product IMO. Well done Trunzos!!! I have been loyal and will be in the future if it keeps progressing like this.

yabanci · 12-12-2003, 07:16 PM

deleted.

Bogie · 12-12-2003, 08:00 PM

I also at this point am pretty satisfied. I know there are a few bugs at this time, but WOW! I have been playing this game since back to I believe about 1979 and the Avlon hill days. I can't believe how much time and effort the Trunzo's have, during there life-time, have put into this little game of there's. I know they hope to make some money out of this, obviously its more than that for them after all these years. I for one am glad they do this as I love boxing, especially back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Lucky for me its in the game! I know you can't please everyone all the time and I respect anyone's right to not like this game, but for me its as good as a boxing sim gets.
Thanks,
Jack
P.S. I am 46(eveyone was giving there age) lol !

swampdragon · 12-12-2003, 08:26 PM

I am not quite sure how one could think that the original board game was one of the best ever and not like this game, but each to his own. For my part, I think this is a very solid simulation and a worthy companion to the OOTP baseball game. I think the actual fight simulations are the best part of the game, although all text sport sims need continuing dialog work. As it stands, I think the dialog is equal to the baseball game, but that it has a ways to go to reach the dialog quality in say... Diamond Mind Baseball (my personal favorite) or APBAs Baseball For Windows. Still, those games have been around for a long time, and this one hasn't. My principal dialog gripe right now is the use of "he" in situations where we can't know which fighter "he" is.
The fighter rating system is timetested and produces realistic results and interesting gameplay. We have thousands of fighters, we want more, and we'll get more. The "shell" of the game (groups, titles, fight cards, rankings, etc.) could use some improvement, and I suspect I'll like it better in 30 days, both as a result of continuing work by the team and my own increased familiarity with how to do things.
All things considered, I'm very satisfied.

sabotai · 12-12-2003, 08:34 PM

"Are you really satisfied?"

Very much so. Thanks for asking.

DuranFAN · 12-12-2003, 09:05 PM

I'm 52 and find the game to be very very good. A patch or two. plus the commitment of owners and this board will make the game even better.
DuranFAN

almo · 12-12-2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wiggans
If you are really a game player, you know how bad this is, It isn't that they didn't have enogh time. I'm not going to wait for patch A, patch B or patch C. I quit. Please Let's be honest. Are you really satisfied?

You are a pretentious person based on that statement alone...I have been gaming for 25 years in some fashion or another. This game is a 8.5 out o 10 with the potentail of a 10.

I am a game player..are you saying I dont know my stuff? Or maybe that does not fit into your criteria?

Here is the real explination:

Everything in life is subjective...as I am sure that there are a lot of gamers out there that would think this is a good game. But as I count it here....the score is 8 likes and one pretentious Wiggans!

GeorgeT · 12-12-2003, 09:45 PM

Heh heh,

Well Wiggans, you're the minority for sure, based on these responses. Kudos to Jim for encouraging you to elaborate on your concerns.

As for me, I'm totally hooked. Sure there are rough edges and missing features, but you can bet these folks will do more to deliver "after market" value added additions to the game than EA or Microsoft EVER would...BUT...they need people to hang in there and help them...SO...do your bit by articulating your concerns in more detail, so that the developers can consider your requests for future patches.

George

mh2365 · 12-12-2003, 10:03 PM

I think it's an excellent game ... I'm 36 and having been playing this game in board version or on the computer since 1979 or so ... oh well Wiggans sounds like someone who'll never be satisfied with anything in life ... I was skeptical with all the delays but I have to say this game is near perfect

bigroundtop · 12-12-2003, 10:12 PM

I agree. Game is good. Graphics superb. But what about a career mode or season mode? Where boxer can earn fame, money, wins losses and titles? Like WCBM world championship boxing manager. they have a career mode with titles and money. I think you need something else added to this game...yeah we can pick this fighter to fight this fighter, but at some point that becomes just so borring. please look into adding a patch for a career or season mode.

Rocco Del Sesto · 12-12-2003, 10:14 PM

Well, I guess Mr. Wiggan's should go back to the board game. I guess I'd wonder why he didn't take advantage of the trial period on the game and try it out and find out first how "not good enough" before buying it.

I'm 44 and enjoying TBCB, what problems there are what shortcomings there may be(and that off course is based on individual opinions which everyone has and is entitled to). My congratulations and thanks again to the TRunzo's and everyone at OOTP. You know there's always going to be one's you won't please. From the overall response I've seen on this forum, it's sounding like though you've all hit a success with this game.

Rocco Del Sesto

12-12-2003, 10:36 PM

Wiggans,

I've been playing the Trunzo's boxing games since the 70's.

None of the games have been poor. All have been quite fun.

The new game, TBCB, is not perfect but it is the best PC game the Trunzos have yet issued. It is without doubt the best PC boxing simulation I have ever played.

So far no one has posted a comment that agrees with you. Maybe you should take another look at TBCB.

doors11 · 12-12-2003, 10:52 PM

I too bought a copy of The Board Game back in 1981.Never has so much fun with a board game in my life.I waited and waited for this version of their game to come out.I dl as sone as i could ..Fought one fight and hurried up and pay the 34.95.I glad i did as i must say,I love this game.I'm having so much fun with it.

Yes there are so things I'd like to see in the game..But I've never bought a game in my life, that didn't have things i'd like to see to make it better.But I do know that sometimes things I like not everyone likes.

I can't wait to see what improvements will be made with this game.

I's like to thank everyone who has worked so hard to make this wonderful game.

I'm sorry you don't like it,But it looks like so many people do.

By the way I'm also over 45.

ThBeatnik · 12-12-2003, 11:19 PM

I bought my first copy of the board game in '76 or '77, I believe. A lot of college time that should have been spent studying was spent shuffling and playing those action cards. I read and reread the bios on the back of the boxer cards.
Some years later, I'd misplaced the game, and remembered it so fondly that I bought another copy. I still have some of the cards from that copy here on my work desk.
I stumbled across the computer version online several years back, bought it, and enjoyed it.
And now I've bought the current version. I'm enjoying it even more than the others. I like the autoscheduler, and the links on the bio screen to boxrec.com remind me of those bios on the back of the old cards. So yes, I really am satisfied.

estone57 · 12-12-2003, 11:46 PM

.

Although I've never played the board game I have played all the Trunzo's computer boxing games. And this new release is by far the best. Add another very satisfied customer! Not that I won't be looking or asking for updates I will. Just the fact that Wiggins didn't really go into detail why he didn't like the game makes his post very suspect. Others have listed in detail what they didn't like and what the want in the future. Many of these from long time posters. And I'll bet the Trunzo's have taken notice

dempsonny · 12-12-2003, 11:50 PM

I turned 49 in October, I had the board game plus add on cards. I had removed the cards, fortunately because I had a fire that destroyed my house, but one of the things that was salvaged were the cards. I also had Ring Side Seat, Title Bout on the C64 I believe, APBA Boxing and TF2001. The game is great. No other boxing game comes close. My Dilema is how I will go about the next half of my life with this. I used to track fighters on index cards, I want to start fresh. I'm going to start a thread on this topic. Trunzos, Andreas and the rest you have met this niche of fans expectations and I'm sure will continue to do so with improvements and enhancements. If you had a 60% approval of the game, you may then say to yourselves we may have missed the mark, but as you read the comments you can see it reads more like 98% approval. Maybe an ad in Ring or KO magazine will boost sales. GOOD LUCK from a very enthusiastic fan of yours for a long time, (even though we disagree on Holmes' ability. Jim) your product is a great success, I hope our niche of players is big enough.

Gus

12-12-2003, 05:34 PM	#1
wiggans Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 49	Not good enough!!! I am a real big sports fan. I am 48 years old, and have been playing sports sims for ever... for ever!!! I bought the original Title Bout almost 20 years ago, from Avalon Hill, It is still one of the greatest games ever . I have been a loyal supporter of the Trunzo's for years. I have bought every game they have ever produced. I have purchesed almost every sporting sim ever. I work in sports, and have for the the last 20 years.. I, like the rest of you on this board waited for ever for this game to come out. I Checked every day, than every week, than every month, than every couple of months. Near the deadlineI stayed on my computer for days, waiting for updates. I bought the game the first minute I could..... It is poor.... Cosmeticlly it is beautifull, but who cares. I could take another 300 words and explain in detail how many things upset me about this effort, but I won't. I appreciate how hard the Trunzo's have worked.. How mutch time they have taken out of their personel lives... blah, blah, blah. If you are really a game player, you know how bad this is, It isn't that they didn't have enogh time. I'm not going to wait for patch A, patch B or patch C. I quit. Please Let's be honest. Are you really satisfied?

12-12-2003, 05:41 PM	#2
David Myers All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 693	With the game play? Yes. Some minor things need to be addressed, but these have to do with managing the database. Not with staging the bouts. Sure, it would be nice if the game "randomized" referees, judges, venues, and dates in the autoscheduler. But these are followup wishes, which do not detract from the autoscheduler's elegance and convenience. More boxers are included than I dreamed--over 3,000! And adding boxers is even easier than in Title Fight. Wiggans, without some specifics it is hard to know what to do with your complaint. It is too global and generalized to help the developers in their efforts to improve a good game even further. __________________ David Myers Houston, Texas

12-12-2003, 07:16 PM	#6
yabanci Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 304	deleted. Last edited by yabanci; 12-20-2003 at 03:30 AM.

12-12-2003, 09:05 PM	#10
DuranFAN Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Washingtonville NY Posts: 17	I'm 52 and find the game to be very very good. A patch or two. plus the commitment of owners and this board will make the game even better. DuranFAN __________________ No mercy when fighting for a title. Per Duran...I kill your ma and pa etc etc

12-12-2003, 11:46 PM	#19
estone57 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Fostoria, Ohio Posts: 69	2 Thumbs Up . Although I've never played the board game I have played all the Trunzo's computer boxing games. And this new release is by far the best. Add another very satisfied customer! Not that I won't be looking or asking for updates I will. Just the fact that Wiggins didn't really go into detail why he didn't like the game makes his post very suspect. Others have listed in detail what they didn't like and what the want in the future. Many of these from long time posters. And I'll bet the Trunzo's have taken notice

12-12-2003, 06:20 PM	#3
Jim Trunzo OOTP Developments Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leechburg, PA Posts: 739	Sigh . . . we knew it would come. Sir (Wiggans), I appreciate your kind words about the work that went into it, etc. which makes it all the more disheartening that we failed to meet your expectations. As Mr. Myers stated, there are improvements that can and will be made, but for the life of me, I don't know what else we can do, besides add the much desired role-playing elements. The results are better than ever, the versatility of the modules . . . well there's no sense in my extolling virtues of the game (it's like a parent doting over a child). If you would care to elaborate about where the game has failed as a simulation, I would be pleased to discuss it on the boards or via private Emails or wherever. Perhaps we simply have missed out on a concept that you had hoped would be there. We basically told everyone what was going to be in the game. However, anything that can improve the product is worth hearing about and attempting to implement. I am truly sorry that we have even left one fan down, even though we have enjoyed immensely the overall response to the product. Jim Trunzo

12-12-2003, 07:04 PM	#5
Dr.K Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: UK Posts: 368	I'm 36 and have played Avalon Hills version to this. I've got to say I'm impressed!! The sheer numbers of boxers has me drooling about matchups. The sims seem great to me so far with the one's I've played. A great product IMO. Well done Trunzos!!! I have been loyal and will be in the future if it keeps progressing like this.

12-12-2003, 08:00 PM	#7
Bogie All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 561	I also at this point am pretty satisfied. I know there are a few bugs at this time, but WOW! I have been playing this game since back to I believe about 1979 and the Avlon hill days. I can't believe how much time and effort the Trunzo's have, during there life-time, have put into this little game of there's. I know they hope to make some money out of this, obviously its more than that for them after all these years. I for one am glad they do this as I love boxing, especially back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Lucky for me its in the game! I know you can't please everyone all the time and I respect anyone's right to not like this game, but for me its as good as a boxing sim gets. Thanks, Jack P.S. I am 46(eveyone was giving there age) lol !

12-12-2003, 08:26 PM	#8
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,506	I am not quite sure how one could think that the original board game was one of the best ever and not like this game, but each to his own. For my part, I think this is a very solid simulation and a worthy companion to the OOTP baseball game. I think the actual fight simulations are the best part of the game, although all text sport sims need continuing dialog work. As it stands, I think the dialog is equal to the baseball game, but that it has a ways to go to reach the dialog quality in say... Diamond Mind Baseball (my personal favorite) or APBAs Baseball For Windows. Still, those games have been around for a long time, and this one hasn't. My principal dialog gripe right now is the use of "he" in situations where we can't know which fighter "he" is. The fighter rating system is timetested and produces realistic results and interesting gameplay. We have thousands of fighters, we want more, and we'll get more. The "shell" of the game (groups, titles, fight cards, rankings, etc.) could use some improvement, and I suspect I'll like it better in 30 days, both as a result of continuing work by the team and my own increased familiarity with how to do things. All things considered, I'm very satisfied.

12-12-2003, 08:34 PM	#9
sabotai All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Jersey Posts: 841	"Are you really satisfied?" Very much so. Thanks for asking.

12-12-2003, 09:45 PM	#12
GeorgeT Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saratoga CA Posts: 121	Heh heh, Well Wiggans, you're the minority for sure, based on these responses. Kudos to Jim for encouraging you to elaborate on your concerns. As for me, I'm totally hooked. Sure there are rough edges and missing features, but you can bet these folks will do more to deliver "after market" value added additions to the game than EA or Microsoft EVER would...BUT...they need people to hang in there and help them...SO...do your bit by articulating your concerns in more detail, so that the developers can consider your requests for future patches. George

12-12-2003, 10:03 PM	#13
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	I think it's an excellent game ... I'm 36 and having been playing this game in board version or on the computer since 1979 or so ... oh well Wiggans sounds like someone who'll never be satisfied with anything in life ... I was skeptical with all the delays but I have to say this game is near perfect

12-12-2003, 10:12 PM	#14
bigroundtop Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2	I agree. Game is good. Graphics superb. But what about a career mode or season mode? Where boxer can earn fame, money, wins losses and titles? Like WCBM world championship boxing manager. they have a career mode with titles and money. I think you need something else added to this game...yeah we can pick this fighter to fight this fighter, but at some point that becomes just so borring. please look into adding a patch for a career or season mode.

12-12-2003, 10:14 PM	#15
Rocco Del Sesto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Watkinsville, Georgia Posts: 2,197	Well, I guess Mr. Wiggan's should go back to the board game. I guess I'd wonder why he didn't take advantage of the trial period on the game and try it out and find out first how "not good enough" before buying it. I'm 44 and enjoying TBCB, what problems there are what shortcomings there may be(and that off course is based on individual opinions which everyone has and is entitled to). My congratulations and thanks again to the TRunzo's and everyone at OOTP. You know there's always going to be one's you won't please. From the overall response I've seen on this forum, it's sounding like though you've all hit a success with this game. Rocco Del Sesto

12-12-2003, 10:36 PM	#16
60'sfan Guest Posts: n/a	Wiggans, I've been playing the Trunzo's boxing games since the 70's. None of the games have been poor. All have been quite fun. The new game, TBCB, is not perfect but it is the best PC game the Trunzos have yet issued. It is without doubt the best PC boxing simulation I have ever played. So far no one has posted a comment that agrees with you. Maybe you should take another look at TBCB.

12-12-2003, 10:52 PM	#17
doors11 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Creswell Posts: 650	I too bought a copy of The Board Game back in 1981.Never has so much fun with a board game in my life.I waited and waited for this version of their game to come out.I dl as sone as i could ..Fought one fight and hurried up and pay the 34.95.I glad i did as i must say,I love this game.I'm having so much fun with it. Yes there are so things I'd like to see in the game..But I've never bought a game in my life, that didn't have things i'd like to see to make it better.But I do know that sometimes things I like not everyone likes. I can't wait to see what improvements will be made with this game. I's like to thank everyone who has worked so hard to make this wonderful game. I'm sorry you don't like it,But it looks like so many people do. By the way I'm also over 45.

12-12-2003, 11:19 PM	#18
ThBeatnik Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 14	I bought my first copy of the board game in '76 or '77, I believe. A lot of college time that should have been spent studying was spent shuffling and playing those action cards. I read and reread the bios on the back of the boxer cards. Some years later, I'd misplaced the game, and remembered it so fondly that I bought another copy. I still have some of the cards from that copy here on my work desk. I stumbled across the computer version online several years back, bought it, and enjoyed it. And now I've bought the current version. I'm enjoying it even more than the others. I like the autoscheduler, and the links on the bio screen to boxrec.com remind me of those bios on the back of the old cards. So yes, I really am satisfied.

12-12-2003, 11:50 PM	#20
dempsonny Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: long island, n.y. Posts: 325	I turned 49 in October, I had the board game plus add on cards. I had removed the cards, fortunately because I had a fire that destroyed my house, but one of the things that was salvaged were the cards. I also had Ring Side Seat, Title Bout on the C64 I believe, APBA Boxing and TF2001. The game is great. No other boxing game comes close. My Dilema is how I will go about the next half of my life with this. I used to track fighters on index cards, I want to start fresh. I'm going to start a thread on this topic. Trunzos, Andreas and the rest you have met this niche of fans expectations and I'm sure will continue to do so with improvements and enhancements. If you had a 60% approval of the game, you may then say to yourselves we may have missed the mark, but as you read the comments you can see it reads more like 98% approval. Maybe an ad in Ring or KO magazine will boost sales. GOOD LUCK from a very enthusiastic fan of yours for a long time, (even though we disagree on Holmes' ability. Jim) your product is a great success, I hope our niche of players is big enough. Gus __________________ A house without a dog is not a home.