memory loss / programin' problem?

newbie · 03-22-2002, 01:28 PM

me and my brother were playing OOTP4 on his new comp, a gig.. 150+ megs etc... and we were playing a season fictional players, 40 teams and we played one season and the game crashed during the free agentcy period saying hes low on resources? his comp has so much memory i cant imagine thats possible after one season. but my brother is a programming major in UW-Madison and he was saying maybe theres a memory loss in the code, could this be possible? is the game not giving the memory back to the comp? or maybe a loop that wont stop? eating up the resources? i dunno but kinda odd and maybe something to think about

Steve Kuffrey · 03-22-2002, 02:20 PM

We need other info.....OS, RAM, free HD space at the time, other programs running.

I ask because I am running the game almost non-stop "while" browsing, etc on an Athlon 1.2 gig, 512 meg of RAM and over a gig a free space w/o any problems and have run several seasons. Oh, OS is win 98se.

dwarner · 03-22-2002, 02:44 PM

im newbie's brother. my comp has an AMD athon 1000 128MB ram, 40GB free space on the hard drive, and Win ME i have version b of OOTP4

Steve Kuffrey · 03-22-2002, 02:48 PM

Ok, well speaking from personal experience(ugh as I ran it for over 6 months and HATED it), I had a problem with having to reboot my PC 8-10 times a day when I ran ME because I would run low on system resources. If I was to guess, I would say that is probably the issue here.

IatricSB · 03-22-2002, 02:50 PM

Seems like everyone reports a big difference in reliability and speed when they have 256MB RAM. With only 128, you'll see definite speed issues the further you get into your league (# of years) and would very likely experience problems if you have other things running (even in the background). One other note, if you disable your virus protection, you'll notice a huge difference in your sim speed.

Also, Win ME can be a huge problem too. I sim multiple seasons in one sitting (no micro managing, just sim quickly and look at results). With Win ME, if I did not shut down OOTP after each season, it would usually crash in the next season or the season after that, but usually the next season. Now that I have Win 2000, I've run as many as 15 seasons without closing OOTP or rebooting. Win ME is really poor (I'm being kind in choosing my words there).
Get more RAM if you can.

[ March 22, 2002: Message edited by: IatricSB ]</p>

dwarner · 03-22-2002, 02:58 PM

it always crashes at the end of the first season, so simming multiple seasons isnt the problem

Split_Finger · 03-22-2002, 03:05 PM

I have 224 MB RAM, 750 Mhz AMD & WIN98SE and have had the same problems with low resources while OOTP4 is running in the background. Because I recently purchased it, I will leave OOTP4 running in the background while I open a few browsers downloading files & utilities and then installing the files in my OOTP4 folders. Lord knows Windows isn't perfect but I've never had this many problems with a low resources error message while running numerous applications until I tried it with OOTP4 in the background. I have no idea though if that's just coincidence or related to OOTP4.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-22-2002, 03:05 PM

What do you mean? Explain yourself further.

dwarner · 03-22-2002, 03:07 PM

also i dont think it has anything to do with the OS because i can sim a league with rolens rosters for days, but with a custom fictional league it crashes during free agency

Steve Kuffrey · 03-22-2002, 03:08 PM

Are you making any changes to the league structure at the beginning of season 2?

dwarner · 03-22-2002, 03:12 PM

i dont make any changes to the league structure. i dont even sign any coaches since i sign them to long term contracts when starting the league. when i offer contracts to players on the first day for the two human controlled teams and press finish day the game crashes. when i restart the computer and the game it starts at signing coaches day 6 of5 and i cant get to the free agent screen

bigphesta · 03-22-2002, 03:18 PM

Strange. I have win Me and I usually sim between 5-10 seasons at a time, while listening to ESPNRadio.com, uploading the NAHHBL File, running Dreamweaver to create the nice NAHHBL front page, and downloading porn with WinMX and have yet to crash. Of course I have a 1.33 t-bird with 256 megs of DDR to go along with my win Me. I monitor my pc all the time and I usually get my physical ram at 100% but my virtrual ram and sys resources stay at a 'respectable' number. Never had any freezes or crashes though.

Khaos · 03-22-2002, 04:11 PM

I posted this once before. Resources and available memory are 2 completely different things. Resources are two 64kb chunks of memory dedicated to keeping track of all the programs open and for drawing items (windows) on the screen. These memory chunks are controlled by user.exe and gdi.exe.

So if you have 32MB or 512MB, 128kb will still be all that is dedicated to your system resources. Which means while increased memory size increases performance, it does not increase the number of progs you can open at the same time.

When you are getting a low system resources message, it means that even though processes have been shut down and windows have been closed, these items have not been eliminated from the 128kb that monitors them. It's called a memory leak, which is a little misleading since it has nothing to do with the actual physical RAM available. This bug is within windows and/or some application windows isn't working with correctly.

Basicly ME, which I prefer to call the OS that is the vortex of evil, the bastard son of 9x and 2K, is crapping itself when it comes to resource management and not recognizing that windows have been closed and processes have been ended.

You can try a reinstall of ME on top of itself, but I'm not very confident that would work. I suggest upgrading to a more stable OS like 2K or XP.

dwarner · 03-22-2002, 04:14 PM

if it was ME, then why does it only happen when using a computer generated custom league? It never happens with any other games or programs. It just seems like there has to be another answer

Steve Kuffrey · 03-22-2002, 04:17 PM

If all you have run of custom, fictional is a 40 team league, maybe it is the size. Try a smaller one and see if the result is the same.

dwarner · 03-22-2002, 04:35 PM

i tried a 40 team league with only one human controlled team and i had no problems. has anyone else had any problems with more than one human controlled team in a fictional league?

Steve Kuffrey · 03-22-2002, 05:12 PM

I appreciate your willingness to look at other options as this can helpus find little quirks like this may be and correct them.

dwarner · 03-22-2002, 05:14 PM

no problem, it just that me and my brother like playing in a league together and we can play leagues based on rolen's rosters, but we never can get a fictional league to work

Henry · 03-22-2002, 05:23 PM

dwarner,
try a quick 20 team league with two human controled teams and see what happens...

dwarner · 03-22-2002, 05:40 PM

I just finished simming the first season and free agency of a 20 team with two teams controlled by humans during free agency. I went off without a hitch. It must have been the 40 teams that caused the crash. Maybe it had something to do with the number of free agents because of the amount of teams, or the volume of offers?

03-22-2002, 01:28 PM	#1
newbie Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: states Posts: 20	memory loss / programin' problem? me and my brother were playing OOTP4 on his new comp, a gig.. 150+ megs etc... and we were playing a season fictional players, 40 teams and we played one season and the game crashed during the free agentcy period saying hes low on resources? his comp has so much memory i cant imagine thats possible after one season. but my brother is a programming major in UW-Madison and he was saying maybe theres a memory loss in the code, could this be possible? is the game not giving the memory back to the comp? or maybe a loop that wont stop? eating up the resources? i dunno but kinda odd and maybe something to think about

03-22-2002, 02:20 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	We need other info.....OS, RAM, free HD space at the time, other programs running. I ask because I am running the game almost non-stop "while" browsing, etc on an Athlon 1.2 gig, 512 meg of RAM and over a gig a free space w/o any problems and have run several seasons. Oh, OS is win 98se. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-22-2002, 02:48 PM	#4
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	Ok, well speaking from personal experience(ugh as I ran it for over 6 months and HATED it), I had a problem with having to reboot my PC 8-10 times a day when I ran ME because I would run low on system resources. If I was to guess, I would say that is probably the issue here. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-22-2002, 02:50 PM	#5
IatricSB Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,493	Seems like everyone reports a big difference in reliability and speed when they have 256MB RAM. With only 128, you'll see definite speed issues the further you get into your league (# of years) and would very likely experience problems if you have other things running (even in the background). One other note, if you disable your virus protection, you'll notice a huge difference in your sim speed. Also, Win ME can be a huge problem too. I sim multiple seasons in one sitting (no micro managing, just sim quickly and look at results). With Win ME, if I did not shut down OOTP after each season, it would usually crash in the next season or the season after that, but usually the next season. Now that I have Win 2000, I've run as many as 15 seasons without closing OOTP or rebooting. Win ME is really poor (I'm being kind in choosing my words there). Get more RAM if you can. [ March 22, 2002: Message edited by: IatricSB ]</p> __________________ Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow! What a Ride!" Chicago(N) - Boys of Summer Oakland - 20th Century League Bakersfield - Wild Things Brooklyn - QBA Dodge City - NBSL California - ABC Dodger's Senioriest fan on the OOTP Boards

03-22-2002, 03:05 PM	#8
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	What do you mean? Explain yourself further. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-22-2002, 02:44 PM	#3
dwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 12	im newbie's brother. my comp has an AMD athon 1000 128MB ram, 40GB free space on the hard drive, and Win ME i have version b of OOTP4

03-22-2002, 02:58 PM	#6
dwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 12	it always crashes at the end of the first season, so simming multiple seasons isnt the problem

03-22-2002, 03:05 PM	#7
Split_Finger Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas, USA Posts: 20	I have 224 MB RAM, 750 Mhz AMD & WIN98SE and have had the same problems with low resources while OOTP4 is running in the background. Because I recently purchased it, I will leave OOTP4 running in the background while I open a few browsers downloading files & utilities and then installing the files in my OOTP4 folders. Lord knows Windows isn't perfect but I've never had this many problems with a low resources error message while running numerous applications until I tried it with OOTP4 in the background. I have no idea though if that's just coincidence or related to OOTP4.

03-22-2002, 03:07 PM	#9
dwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 12	also i dont think it has anything to do with the OS because i can sim a league with rolens rosters for days, but with a custom fictional league it crashes during free agency

03-22-2002, 03:08 PM	#10
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	Are you making any changes to the league structure at the beginning of season 2? __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-22-2002, 03:12 PM	#11
dwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 12	i dont make any changes to the league structure. i dont even sign any coaches since i sign them to long term contracts when starting the league. when i offer contracts to players on the first day for the two human controlled teams and press finish day the game crashes. when i restart the computer and the game it starts at signing coaches day 6 of5 and i cant get to the free agent screen

03-22-2002, 03:18 PM	#12
bigphesta Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,366	Strange. I have win Me and I usually sim between 5-10 seasons at a time, while listening to ESPNRadio.com, uploading the NAHHBL File, running Dreamweaver to create the nice NAHHBL front page, and downloading porn with WinMX and have yet to crash. Of course I have a 1.33 t-bird with 256 megs of DDR to go along with my win Me. I monitor my pc all the time and I usually get my physical ram at 100% but my virtrual ram and sys resources stay at a 'respectable' number. Never had any freezes or crashes though.

03-22-2002, 04:11 PM	#13
Khaos Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canfield, OH Posts: 473	I posted this once before. Resources and available memory are 2 completely different things. Resources are two 64kb chunks of memory dedicated to keeping track of all the programs open and for drawing items (windows) on the screen. These memory chunks are controlled by user.exe and gdi.exe. So if you have 32MB or 512MB, 128kb will still be all that is dedicated to your system resources. Which means while increased memory size increases performance, it does not increase the number of progs you can open at the same time. When you are getting a low system resources message, it means that even though processes have been shut down and windows have been closed, these items have not been eliminated from the 128kb that monitors them. It's called a memory leak, which is a little misleading since it has nothing to do with the actual physical RAM available. This bug is within windows and/or some application windows isn't working with correctly. Basicly ME, which I prefer to call the OS that is the vortex of evil, the bastard son of 9x and 2K, is crapping itself when it comes to resource management and not recognizing that windows have been closed and processes have been ended. You can try a reinstall of ME on top of itself, but I'm not very confident that would work. I suggest upgrading to a more stable OS like 2K or XP. __________________ squish

03-22-2002, 04:14 PM	#14
dwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 12	if it was ME, then why does it only happen when using a computer generated custom league? It never happens with any other games or programs. It just seems like there has to be another answer

03-22-2002, 04:17 PM	#15
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	If all you have run of custom, fictional is a 40 team league, maybe it is the size. Try a smaller one and see if the result is the same. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-22-2002, 04:35 PM	#16
dwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 12	i tried a 40 team league with only one human controlled team and i had no problems. has anyone else had any problems with more than one human controlled team in a fictional league?

03-22-2002, 05:12 PM	#17
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	I appreciate your willingness to look at other options as this can helpus find little quirks like this may be and correct them. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-22-2002, 05:14 PM	#18
dwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 12	no problem, it just that me and my brother like playing in a league together and we can play leagues based on rolen's rosters, but we never can get a fictional league to work

03-22-2002, 05:23 PM	#19
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	dwarner, try a quick 20 team league with two human controled teams and see what happens...

03-22-2002, 05:40 PM	#20
dwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 12	I just finished simming the first season and free agency of a 20 team with two teams controlled by humans during free agency. I went off without a hitch. It must have been the 40 teams that caused the crash. Maybe it had something to do with the number of free agents because of the amount of teams, or the volume of offers?